Looking at 1993 GV

Topic: Looking at 1993 GV (Read 1818 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #25 – February 12, 2017, 02:07:31 pm

Having had Oshkosh in first FT, and then two Foretravel chassis, please drive the Foretravel chassis before you make a firm decision.
It would appear the MOT $3-5k repair is a reasonable compared to replacing the entire structure. The ones I examined at Bernd's shop had 80+% good metal, but the entire basement was replaced.
Bulkhead damage is something that can be determined during pre buy, and budgeted for if found.
Remember, a year 2000 U-320 cost $750k+ (in 2000 $, not 2017 $).
It was made with the finest materials and components available, to last a very long time. But maintenance in something this old and complex is not trivial.
Buy what you can afford to pay cash for and still have 20% of purchase price in reserve for maintenance. If that equation is too scary, consider other options such as a fifth wheel.
You probably won't spend the 20%, but it will be realistic and give you piece of mind.
If you can fix most anything, cut that to 15%. Tires, batteries and LP refrigerators are the likely big number items. Bulkheads have already been discussed.
Engines and transmission issues are VERY rare (at least catastrophic ones), but can hurt badly if you are among the unlucky.
Don't be scared off, but be realistic.
You will love your FT, and it will cost less overall than buying newer, paying interest and suffering precipitous depreciation

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #26 – February 12, 2017, 02:33:58 pm

I used to use the "10% rule", but with labor and parts these days, Tim is spot on with 20% in the pocket!

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #27 – February 12, 2017, 08:56:34 pm

Thank you for the discussion regarding bulkhead concerns. We have ridden in a FGV with air suspension, and it is what got my wife to agree to buy one. I explained that Mr. Anderson's coach will not ride the same because it is spring and frame, and she is miffed at me.

I will re look at what is currently on the market and see what is out there, although we expect to leave for Florida within a few days to go see Mr. Anderson's coach.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #28 – February 12, 2017, 09:10:43 pm

I am starting to feel like a dog chasing its tail. The only coach currently on the market that has an 8 bag air suspension, and air brakes has a Cat 3208 engine with an Allison 4 speed transmission, no retarder, at MOT:

1990 Foretravel Grand Villa 36 Priced at $ 27500

vs.

Mr. Anderson's Coach
No pics
Oshkosh
8.3 Cummins with retarder
36'
new tires,
new brakes,
all new hoses and belts
he says it is in cherry condition.

MOT is in Texas, Mr. A's coach in FL.

I was all set to buy the FL coach if it is as nice as the owner states. After the above discussions, I am hesitating.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #29 – February 12, 2017, 09:11:53 pm

Disregarding price, which is probably the best one to buy?

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #30 – February 12, 2017, 09:26:57 pm

Probably not up for serious consideration, but here is one of the rare later Grand Villas, a GV320. Just in case you didn't know that they made the GV style after 1995... I think they are lovely

Foretravel Motorcoach - 2002 Foretravel 4020 G320
Don

Quote from: Rzrbrn – February 12, 2017, 09:10:43 pm

I am starting to feel like a dog chasing its tail. The only coach currently on the market that has an 8 bag air suspension, and air brakes has a Cat 3208 engine with an Allison 4 speed transmission, no retarder, at MOT:

1990 Foretravel Grand Villa 36 Priced at $ 27500

vs.

Mr. Anderson's Coach
No pics
Oshkosh
8.3 Cummins with retarder
36'
new tires,
new brakes,
all new hoses and belts
he says it is in cherry condition.

MOT is in Texas, Mr. A's coach in FL.

I was all ste to buy the FL coach if it is as nice as the owner states. After the above discussions, I am hesitating.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #31 – February 12, 2017, 09:32:01 pm

Unless you are in a big hurry to buy.....?? I would seriously consider the Unihome, of course I am biased, but the quiet and soft ride of the air suspension is definitely worth serious consideration. Complexity and cost most likely keep some from going with the HWH but it sure makes for a better drive. We did 9,000 miles in 40 days and I wouldnt want to do that on a leaf sprung suspension.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #32 – February 12, 2017, 09:44:45 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – February 12, 2017, 02:07:31 pm

Remember, a year 2000 U-320 cost $750k+ (in 2000 $, not 2017 $).

Tim,

With all due respect, I think your numbers are a bit off. I know a 2003 U320 was more like $475-500K new, depending on floorplan, maybe $530K optioned out and custom floorplan. So no way a 2000 was 50% higher than that

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #33 – February 12, 2017, 10:17:55 pm

Why are you dead set on 36'?

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #34 – February 12, 2017, 10:19:41 pm

We just drove 750 miles in a couple of days on our airbags, nothing like it. We arrived relaxed and ready to relax some more. We have a '93 U300 GV with a DD.

Antidotally, it's our first long trip on new rubber all the way around and that made a huge difference in handling.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #35 – February 12, 2017, 10:50:30 pm

Tim, I did not know that your State had ok'd the growing of the green stuff like Colorado etc!!!
I have A 2000 and yes it is a 295 but only cost 350k new. gee I did not know that they cost that much tricked out. Maybe I will ask 175k for it? what a deal

JohnH

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #36 – February 12, 2017, 10:56:40 pm

Have you looked at the two 36' coaches

posted today on the classified section?

Carter-

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #37 – February 12, 2017, 11:09:14 pm

Carter, have now and now I know why I would want so much more for our coach. Different leagues totally.
By the way my 175k was in regards to Tims original cost of the coach posted NOT what it really cost. My asking price (if for sale) is somewhat lower!!
I know that everyone thinks that their coach is better than all others but I do know this one IS. Not one thing is wrong with it and does not need detailing. That is done every day by owners.
This is not an MOT special

johnH

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #38 – February 13, 2017, 02:32:28 am

Hydraulic disk brakes in the Rockies can do two extreme stops in a row. Third one the fluid will or will have boiled and the brakes fade.

Air brakes have considerably more capacity. Air disk brakes are race grade

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #39 – February 13, 2017, 05:21:31 am

Stump
36' because we spend much of our time poking around areas with narrow secondary and gravel roads with small or no campgrounds that were very difficult to maneuver our small 17' travel trailer pulled by my full size Pickup. My wife really likes the SBI type of coach (stand alone table), so that keeps the coach in the 36' size and larger. I want something I can easily maneuver in those tight spaces (usually with trees and rocks in the wrong places) and the 40' units seem to me to be just too large. I have never owned a motorcoach or large trailer.

CaFlashbob
Fuel sloshing and overheating hydraulics by using 3x or more when going downhill is the type of information that I find persuasive.

Carter
I will check out the new posts in the classified section after this post.

I was hoping to have a coach ready to go by March or April, but since I have a TT for this camping season, I don't really need to buy a coach now. (At least in the near term, my wife will not let me sell the Casita and pickup because she is uncertain about how much we will like using a motorhome)

Henry
htrzrbrn106@gmail.com

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #40 – February 13, 2017, 08:17:26 am

Reading your description of use, makes me wonder if maybe the oshkosh chassis might be better offroad. I've found the airbag suspension to be pretty tender off pavement, even things like a washboard surface have to be carefully navigated.

The side mounted radiator coaches blow a huge amount of dust up from below, then suck it into the rear mounted air intake. Even at creeping speed.

Coming from a Casita an 8' wide U225 would be palatial. Light weight, inexpensive to buy, probably the most popular diesel engine around, the Cummins 6b 12 valve. Millions of em around, cheap to repair in the unlikely event you have to. Plenty of tweaks for more power possible. I've seen some of these coaches going in the $teens.

I don't know that the torsilastic is better on unpaved roads, but suspect it is. Maybe others can comment. Just a thought. Oh yeah, the 8' width is much easier to navigate around obstacles than the 8'6. Same great hardwood interior as all the others.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #41 – February 13, 2017, 09:13:38 am

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – February 13, 2017, 08:17:26 am

Reading your description of use, makes me wonder if maybe the oshkosh chassis might be better offroad. I've found the airbag suspension to be pretty tender off pavement, even things like a washboard surface have to be carefully navigated.

The side mounted radiator coaches blow a huge amount of dust up from below, then suck it into the rear mounted air intake. Even at creeping speed.

Coming from a Casita an 8' wide U225 would be palatial. Light weight, inexpensive to buy, probably the most popular diesel engine around, the Cummins 6b 12 valve. Millions of em around, cheap to repair in the unlikely event you have to. Plenty of tweaks for more power possible. I've seen some of these coaches going in the $teens.

I don't know that the torsilastic is better on unpaved roads, but suspect it is. Maybe others can comment. Just a thought. Oh yeah, the 8' width is much easier to navigate around obstacles than the 8'6. Same great hardwood interior as all the others.

We have had both a 93, U225 and our current 93, U300. I have found no difference in the off road or rough road access. The rear radiator on the U225 was a real pain for maintenance such as belts, water pump and cleaning between the CAC and Radiator. I find no problem with the 8.5 foot width but I would recommend a 36' rather than a 40' for expanded camp site access.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #42 – February 13, 2017, 09:45:32 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – February 13, 2017, 02:32:28 am

Hydraulic disk brakes in the Rockies can do two extreme stops in a row. Third one the fluid will or will have boiled and the brakes fade.

Careful with this statement. Certainly true if the brake fluid is not change every couple of years, but NOT true unless the brake fluid is hydrated/has absorbed moisture. Good brake fluid (non-hydrated) boils about 500 degrees F. Hydrated brake fluid boils at 286 degrees F. BIG DIFFERENCE. If you get temperatures above 450 degrees F in a caliper, you have other MAJOR problems. With reasonable maintenance, either system is quite good.

Not suggesting that hydraulics are better (or worse)-- either can be done very well or very poorly.

Last I checked, a Boeing 747 at over a million pounds has HYDRAULIC BRAKES.

So why do most coaches have air brakes (most drum, a few disk)? Simple, the axles and suspension components are pretty much "off the rack" medium and HD truck parts. So, why do trucks have air brakes? Again, simple-- it is a lot easier and quicker to hook up the air lines between tractor and trailer than to connect and then bleed hydraulic lines.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #43 – February 13, 2017, 10:46:22 am

Not sure, but I think you said that your wife want sure if you would like a class "A" in lieu of your current set up. I suspect that wont be a problem, but if that is a concern, suggest you rent a 34' or greater class "A" (doesn't matter if diesel or whatever) with a slide or two for a long weekend.
I may have it wrong, but renting something will give you great insight into the kinds of things you want or don't want in your coach.
Then take your time and buy the best coach you can find in the next 6-12 months, the tirght one will come along.
If your travels allow, plan on a 4-5 day stop in Nacogdoches TX to visit the various vendors there that specialize in selling and servicing these great coaches.
Good luck! Lots of wisdom here.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #44 – February 13, 2017, 11:01:16 am

As usual, Tim has great advice. If renting is difficult, try going to as many RV shows and dealerships as you can. Go into everything there, no matter the age or price, and imagine yourself living with that floor plan. It won't take long until you will have a pretty good idea of what works for you and what doesn't.

While you are doing that you can hang out here and ask questions. It might even be that a Foretravel owner is near you and would give you a personal tour.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #45 – February 13, 2017, 11:24:27 am

Tim is giving great advice. Better to know for sure because it's always easier to buy than sell.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #46 – February 13, 2017, 11:54:48 am

Some nice ones on Ebay now,2 from a business in Missouri worth a look, maybe a member near to look at.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #47 – February 13, 2017, 12:10:43 pm

John44
Yes, I have those on my watch list at ebay. But they are 40' and we want a 36'. Thank you.

We rented a class C in the past and enjoyed it.

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #48 – February 13, 2017, 12:26:35 pm

FWIW, the reason I quoted 20% of purchase price - if you buy a coach for $30K, 20% of that is $6K, pretty easy to see how that amount might come up in the course of the first year if tires, or batteries, or refrigerator, or??? needed some attention

Tim

Re: Looking at 1993 GV

Reply #49 – February 13, 2017, 01:02:31 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – February 13, 2017, 12:26:35 pm

if you buy a coach for $30K, 20% of that is $6K, pretty easy to see how that amount might come up in the course of the first year if tires, or batteries, or refrigerator, or??? needed some attention

And that's why there are no good deals, mostly. We paid $10CBs more than what the market prices were because both the POs had followed the "60/80" rule: Every 60/80K something is going to fail and they followed the rule. So when we looked at this coach, the paperwork showed me we had a almost fresh coach. Yes, there are going to be "this and that" issues, that's normal, especially for full-timers, but, at least, I'm not concerned about big CB issues!

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