Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Topic: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off (Read 4110 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #25 – July 18, 2017, 06:31:59 pm

If the temperature sensor is operating properly, the Allison site here gives possible reasons for overheating:

Allison Transmission Parts
Troubleshooting Charts For Allison Transmissions AT / MT (B) / HT / V
The troubleshooting information contained in the following charts outlines the possible causes of transmission conditions and their remedies. Several possible causes are indicated; numbered items indicate suggested remedies for the causes. For Sales and Service Call America's #1 Supplier of OEM Allison Transmission Parts and Authorized Allison Dealer;
TransDiesel Transmission Call us: 1-407-295-1221
H - OVERHEATING IN ALL RANGES
Condition Probable Causes Suggested Remedies
Overheating in All Ranges 1. Cooler lines restricted. (Can also cause excessive fuel consumption.) 1. Remove restrictions; clean or replace lines. (Refer to vehicle service manual.)
2. Broken parts in converter. (Can also cause excessive fuel consumption.) 2. Replace or rebuild converter assembly. Note: Welded converter assemblies are not repairable and must be replaced as an assembly.
3. Aerated transmission fluid. 3. Adjust transmission fluid to proper level (be sure dipstick calibration is correct for specific model); check for defective sealring at intake tube. Check for defective input charging pump.
4. Cooler flow loss due to internal leakage. 4. Overhaul transmission.

Pierce

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #26 – July 18, 2017, 06:39:59 pm

Pierce,

Sounds like good diagnostic tree for a "regular" Allison 3000/4000, but not sure it addresses: "I have an R/retarder Allison and the retarder function stays engaged resulting in high fluid temperatures".

Again, not suggesting this is what is happening, but it would be worthwhile to know how to disable the retarder function so it can be ruled out as the cause of the overheating condition.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #27 – July 18, 2017, 07:17:45 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – July 18, 2017, 06:39:59 pm

Pierce,

Sounds like good diagnostic tree for a "regular" Allison 3000/4000, but not sure it addresses: "I have an R/retarder Allison and the retarder function stays engaged resulting in high fluid temperatures".

Again, not suggesting this is what is happening, but it would be worthwhile to know how to disable the retarder function so it can be ruled out as the cause of the overheating condition.

Yes, being able to disable the retarder function would be a help. It's located right below the retarder temperature sensor. Wonder why the pan fluid temp is high but the retarder temp does not show an alarm? I remember we had a big yellow light that came on if you used the retarder pedal too much. Also wondering even if the retarder is engaged, why the elevated temperatures at low speed rather than when really working at high engine RPM and why so fast. We had to use ours quite a bit to get the light to come on. We did have a thousand gallons of water on board plus 150 fuel.

So tough when a thousand miles away.

Pierce

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #28 – July 18, 2017, 07:43:28 pm

Here is the factory troubleshooting manual with 861 pages. Check page 167 as it refers to high fluid temps and the retarder. Looks like you need a Pro-Link or Allison break out box to really get into it. It does have the wire codes for both the sump temp as well as the retarder fluid temp. Lots to read and I don't see how to disable the retarder solenoid yet. The MH after the 3000 designates it as a motorhome application.

Read or download at: Allison 3000-4000 Series Troubleshooting | Manual Transmission | Transmission...

Pierce

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #29 – July 18, 2017, 07:50:37 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 18, 2017, 07:17:45 pm

We did have a thousand gallons of water on board plus 150 fuel.

So tough when a thousand miles away.

Pierce

How much water?

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #30 – July 19, 2017, 01:13:09 am

Quote from: craneman – July 18, 2017, 07:50:37 pm

How much water?

It was a OES (Office of Emergency Service) fire truck given to us by the State of California. It was meant to go on campaign fires (out of town fires) so had a sprung cab with shock absorber seats. 1000 gallons of water is 8350 lbs. All of it up pretty high on the rig. So, with water and fuel plus their tanks, that's almost 10,000 lbs dedicated to liquid. Very high seating position and pretty quiet since it was gasoline. Replaced our LaFrance for a couple of days and the first time I drove it was very early in the morning to a fire. The captain said it felt like a dog and asked if it would it go faster. I looked down and we were going 86 mph.

It did take a while to stop though. Six speed Allison with retarder.

Pierce

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #31 – July 19, 2017, 07:11:14 am

Folks - let's stay on topic since this is an important Tech issue for the OP. Fire Ring is a better place for some of the straying discussion.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #32 – July 19, 2017, 10:42:22 am

Cummins shop (not Allison) here in Kalispell got us in this morning and the tech is looking for codes. I asked if he was familiar with Allison transmission retarder and he replied "a little". Wish me luck.

Ed

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #33 – July 19, 2017, 02:18:24 pm

So it's off to Missoula Mt and an Allison dealer. Service guy at I-State Truck Center says "no way to disable retarder you just gotta baby it in or tow it".

We have stopped 4-5 times in last 30 miles to let tranny cool down. Transmission temps stays around 220, retarder temp got as high as 270 this last time. Trying to keep retarder temps under 250.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #34 – July 19, 2017, 02:22:50 pm

Love Flathead Lake -- it's a pretty drive, sorry you're probably not able to enjoy it as much as usual given the circumstances. Hope the shop in Missoula knows their stuff!

Mark

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #35 – July 19, 2017, 04:17:03 pm

Coach Net should be able to tow you to the next authorized dealer where service can be performed. If that is a two hour tow to an Allison tranny place then they should be able to do it. At least that is how our program with them works.

If you decide to be towed, as posted in a thread awhile ago, you would need to make sure the tow operator pulls the axle shafts on both sides of the coach, and then covers the axle holes.

The way Coach Net works is that they take the information for your coach (size, weight, etc.) and then call places local to you to see who can handle the job. Then Coach Net bargains like crazy to keep the amount they pay the tow operator to a minimal level.

Chris

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #36 – July 19, 2017, 04:31:24 pm

Be sure to do a Transynd fluid change with filters (5 gallon pail of Transynd and Allison filter kit) when this is solved. No sense in loosing a transmission over fluid that you know has been overheated.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #37 – July 19, 2017, 08:01:05 pm

Quote from: Mark Duckworth – July 19, 2017, 02:22:50 pm

Love Flathead Lake -- it's a pretty drive, sorry you're probably not able to enjoy it as much as usual given the circumstances. Hope the shop in Missoula knows their stuff!

Mark

Fortunately during our stay in Glacier Natl Park we did enjoy a drive around the lake. This trip I was cussing every grade and watching my VMSPC go red instead of enjoying the views.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #38 – July 19, 2017, 08:25:56 pm

We also have CoachNet, but we feel that towing should always be last choice, as any towing even with both axle removed, can cause damage. Flatbed towing is probably preferred, but overall height has to managed. So driving and stopping may be better.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #39 – July 19, 2017, 08:26:58 pm

We made it to I State Truck Center in Missoula. It's an authorized Allison dealer. Service Mgr Eric will do his best to get us in. I asked him about parking on the street across from the shop. He tells me it's ok, a lot do it.

Turns out Big Sky Brewing Company is about 350 feet across an open field from where we are spending the night.
And.......... the brewery is hosting a concert. UB40 is playing tonight. "Red Red Wine" and we have a front seat (350 feet away). And a growler from Big Sky. Life is good.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #40 – July 20, 2017, 11:13:34 am

Ed- while you are there by Big Sky try Moose Drool- it is their dark brown ale. Wish I had a growler of it right now.

Hope all goes well getting your tranny issue fixed, get back on the road , and don't forget a growler to go...............

Cya down the road

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #41 – July 20, 2017, 05:27:44 pm

Quote from: Ted & Karen – July 20, 2017, 11:13:34 am

Ed- while you are there by Big Sky try Moose Drool- it is their dark brown ale.

My personal favorite.

Moose Drool, The name reminds me of a microbrew I first had in Pennsylvania. "Bear Wiz" beer. Too funny.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #42 – July 22, 2017, 10:22:26 am

Did you ever get your transmission issue fixed???!

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #43 – July 24, 2017, 03:42:31 pm

Quote from: bbeane – July 22, 2017, 10:22:26 am

Did you ever get your transmission issue fixed???!

Bruce, still waiting to get a call from the service manager at I-State Truck in Missoula. (Stuck in Missoula with you). Last week he gave us an August 2nd date. Then put us in the cue for the first open spot. We are enjoying Missoula while we wait.

I should post in the Foretravel Sighting thread. Two so far, passed a GV today near a Walmart in Missoula. We were in the jeep. A few days ago we passed (in their driveway) near Rattlesnake Creek, a very nice 36 foot Unicoach. Late 90's.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #44 – July 24, 2017, 03:48:15 pm

Thanks.
Please keep us posted-- both on what is wrong AND if they can tell you, how to disable the retarder to allow you to limp in in the future without the overheating issue.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #45 – July 24, 2017, 09:14:54 pm

Since I installed my vmspc I have more info than I really need to know ( I'm an idiot so those lights work for me lol)

My retarder temps go up and down while driving and not in use.. normal? When I am using what is the max temp to start worrying ? Mine turns yellow at 200 I think.. red at 230 ish or so? Trans temps are never that high.

My oil temps are in the 200+ range .. is that normal also?

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #46 – July 24, 2017, 09:20:08 pm

My retarder temps go up and down while driving and not in use.. normal?

Yes. You are not measuring the retarder temperature, you are measuring the transmission fluid temperature near the retarder, and the transmission is working.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #47 – July 24, 2017, 09:21:15 pm

Perfect.. ty

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #48 – July 25, 2017, 01:07:00 am

On our coach dash tranny gauge was controlled by a temp sender screwed into a 1/8" threaded hole in one of the large coolant elbows on bottom-front of tranny. OEM choice was to measure tranny fluid temps returning from tranny cooler. We removed sender, plugged hole, drilled & tapped a hole in the other line, going to tranny cooler. Now dash gauge reads the hotter fluid just after the retarder. We see temps over 250 when heading down mountains, then immediately run cooler as soon as retarding is reduced. A more realistic temp reading.

Re: Retarder Temperature Rising, but retarder set to Off

Reply #49 – July 26, 2017, 03:57:45 pm

Got the call at 12:30L. Going in right after lunch. Started her up after sitting since Saturday. Retarder temps after warm up and then driving less than 5 minutes were at 270 degrees with the retarder switch in the Off position.
Wish me luck

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