Solar Battery Charger

Topic: Solar Battery Charger (Read 1608 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #25 – August 10, 2017, 04:42:56 pm

Whats wrong with screwing the panels down? You already have over one hundred holes in the roof for antennas, AC, vents, etc and with any kind of skill, the holes can be easily sealed. You can screw directly into the aluminum roof members or using a variety of fasteners, screw into the 0.400 inch thick roof (fiberglass plus wood). I used 6 fasteners per large panel and they have been great. Commercial solar shops also do a lot of screw down installations.

Pierce

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #26 – August 10, 2017, 10:19:21 pm

AM solar supplies the 3M tape in their kits as well as the dicor. I mounted ours last year and they show no movement or stress on the mount. They also supply the stainless fasteners if you don't trust the tape. I was going to use them on the leading edge if there was movement. Glad I did not but if you are worried use Johns Hs method of leading edges.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #27 – August 10, 2017, 11:56:39 pm

Quote from: George and Steph – August 10, 2017, 10:19:21 pm

AM solar supplies the 3M tape in their kits as well as the dicor.

George,

Am I correct in assuming the 3M tape is to secure the brackets to the roof, and the dicor is to cover the metal brackets so they look more "roofish?"

Since you are not drilling through the roof at the brackets, is there any reason besides appearance/ aesthetics to use the dicor?

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #28 – August 11, 2017, 12:45:01 am

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – August 10, 2017, 04:38:13 pm

Having 540 watts put on roof at AM Solar as I type. 3M High Bond Tape, Dicor on top of brackets.

Very interested in the wiring runs they use. I may well be self installing their products this fall. Are your batteries in the center of the coach like mine are in the 2003?

If you are able to describe the runs they use roof to controller to batteries it would be very helpful. What products have you chosen from their product lines?

On my previous 94 Bluebird BMC 37', I self installed their products with 300 watts of panels.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #29 – August 11, 2017, 06:34:38 am

Hi Trent,

The use of the dicor in my opinion does two things. First it supplies additional adhesive. Second it protects the foot adhesive from the elements. UV, water freezing and thawing, etc. Perhaps belt and suspenders but cheap peace of mind.

AC7880, I am not sure of your other components but if they will need upgrading in the near future, you have the opportunity to upgrade to an all Victron system. Several others on the forum have now moved in that direction. What it can give you is a fully integrated system that does not have to be monitored for charging conflicts etc. and provides top notch monitoring of your system as a whole. One other note. Buy a controller that you can expand with in the future. If you are going to put up 5-600w buy a controller that can take you to 1k+.

They are pricey but the support I received balanced it out. You may want to give Mitchell a call at AM. Very service oriented and nice to work with on your project. I was never talked down to or had him lose patience with my entry level knowledge.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #30 – August 11, 2017, 07:26:08 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – August 10, 2017, 04:16:03 pm

To Mark:

I don't know exactly what product AM Solar used to glue down my brackets. I have been asked that many times, and I was negligent in not getting that info when they were working on our coach. The guys at their shop are extremely friendly and helpful to "do it yourself" customers. I am sure if you called them, they would be happy to answer any questions you might have. They would also be happy to sell you some stuff, if you like their offerings!

They also have a nice website with lots of good info. Here is their discussion on the subject of panel mounts:

Mounts

Chuck,

Thanks for the link. As you say, lots of good information on their site!

Mark

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #31 – August 11, 2017, 07:39:25 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – August 10, 2017, 10:54:29 am

For mounting the panel, I suggest using stainless steel brackets "glued" to the roof. Ours have been up there for 2 years now, and just as secure as the day they were installed. Big plus: no screw holes in the roof, and you can tilt the panel (for optimum sun angle, or for cleaning under them) using simple prop rods.

Chuck - that's a sharp looking installation!

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #32 – August 11, 2017, 07:41:20 am

Here a photo of our roof surface. Not sure if the detail will be adequate after upload to see the non-slip bumps. Sorta like the surface of an orange or orange-peel drywall texture.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #33 – August 11, 2017, 08:10:23 am

Quote from: Mark Duckworth – August 11, 2017, 07:41:20 am

Here a photo of our roof surface.

In the case of our coach, the roof was (and is) still the original gelcoat. I cleaned the roof pretty well before I arrived for our appointment. When they are working in the shop they have a 2nd story window in the office area where you can observe the activity on the top of your coach. I could see that they used some type of cleaning agent to prepare the surface before sticking down the brackets, but don't know the specific product.

My concern with any kind of "aftermarket" roof coating would be "How well does it stick to the original gelcoat?". If you stick the bracket to the coating with tape, and then the coating comes loose from the gelcoat, then that would not be desirable. If you are not sure about the strength of the coating bond to the roof surface, then that might be a good reason to use a more mechanical means of securing the brackets, like the screws championed by Pierce. AM Solar uses the screws with rubber roofs for the same reason.

I like to avoid drilling holes anywhere on our coach, if I can find another way to accomplish the task. But that's just me!

Photo below of AM Solar crew performing surgery on our coach. First class operation all the way! (PV System, Installation, at AM Solar)

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #34 – August 11, 2017, 08:37:54 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – August 11, 2017, 08:10:23 am

My concern with any kind of "aftermarket" roof coating would be "How well does it stick to the original gelcoat?". If you stick the bracket to the coating with tape, and then the coating comes loose from the gelcoat, then that would not be desirable. If you are not sure about the strength of the coating bond to the roof surface, then that might be a good reason to use a more mechanical means of securing the brackets, like the screws championed by Pierce. AM Solar uses the screws with rubber roofs for the same reason.

I also read on AM Solar's site about their using screws on rubber membrane roofs. I agree with the parallel you draw and agree that holes in any roof are best avoided if one has alternatives; however, in this case I think I'll go with screws. Probably will use 3M 5200 in the screw holes and a generous application of 5200 between the brackets and roof surface to ensure the orange peel is filled and fully bonded to the bracket. After that cures, I plan to mimic your installation and coat the bracket base with Dicor.

How often do you go on the roof and tilt your panels? Is the decision to tilt or not tilt predicated by your length of stay? I'm 65 and have noticed a very slight change in my balance ability. Not enough that I'm worried but enough that I'm more thoughtful about being careful. That's led me to the idea that perhaps it's wise to install more panels mounted flat than fewer with the tilt feature. If one loses, say, 20% production from a non-tilted installation, then I can add enough panels to make up the loss from not tilting.

I'm not criticizing your installation. Not at all. It's a beautiful install. I'm just saying that in my case it seems to make sense to reduce my risk by only going on the roof when absolutely necessary. One hospital trip would pay for a lot of equipment.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #35 – August 11, 2017, 08:58:41 am

Quote from: Mark Duckworth – August 11, 2017, 08:37:54 am

How often do you go on the roof and tilt your panels? Is the decision to tilt or not tilt predicated by your length of stay? I'm 65 and have noticed a very slight change in my balance ability. Not enough that I'm worried but enough that I'm more thoughtful about being careful. That's led me to the idea that perhaps it's wise to install more panels mounted flat than fewer with the tilt feature. If one loses, say, 20% production from a non-tilted installation, then I can add enough panels to make up the loss from not tilting.

When AM Solar does the install, the tilting "feature" is simply a side benefit of their mounting system. If you think you might ever want to tilt the panels, they offer you the option of buying the "extra cost" prop rods. If you will never want to tilt the panels, then you don't need the rods and you save a few bucks. Truthfully, I have only tilted our panels for better sun angle one time in two years - that was last January at Q. Unless we are planning to be camped in one spot for a week or more, I wouldn't bother. It does require some time and physical effort to get the panels raised up in the tilted position...how much would be directly proportional to the number of panels.

At 72.5 years of age, I am fortunate to still be fairly well balanced (physically speaking, that is...). I can scamper up and down the ladder to our roof like a monkey. I HAVE found the tilting feature to be handy for cleaning the roof. A lot of dirt and trash accumulates under the panels, more so since our coach is parked outside 100% of the time. Getting the panels up out of the way makes scrubbing the roof much easier (but not any more enjoyable).

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #36 – August 11, 2017, 09:02:23 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – August 11, 2017, 08:58:41 am

I HAVE found the tilting feature to be handy for cleaning the roof. A lot of dirt accumulates under the panels, especially since our coach is parked outside 100% of the time. Getting the panels up out of the way makes scrubbing the roof much easier (but not any more enjoyable).

Makes sense. Thanks!

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #37 – August 11, 2017, 09:04:10 am

Mark,

I have panels on the roof that sit flat and thought about changing brackets/mounts so they can be tilted. But have the same concerns about getting up there as you are.

How about some liner 12V motors remote or push button? I do not think it would be that expensive and perhaps install two per panel or fabricated that you can tilt either way depending or sun. I bet someone has already done it.

Charlie

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #38 – August 11, 2017, 09:08:12 am

Quote from: Charlie G – August 11, 2017, 09:04:10 am

How about some liner 12V motors remote or push button? I do not think it would be that expensive and perhaps install two per panel or fabricated that you can tilt either way depending or sun. I bet someone has already done it.

Charlie

That would be a fun project, wouldn't it?

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #39 – August 11, 2017, 09:15:44 am

Something like this:

12 Volt 2" inch Linear Actuator W/ Wireless Remote Control Controller for...

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #40 – August 11, 2017, 09:28:43 am

Motorized tilting is available - search on YouTube for videos. In most cases, not practical or cost efficient. Like Mark says, if you don't want to tilt, just add another panel to make up for the 20% loss in efficiency from flat mounting.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #41 – August 11, 2017, 09:29:49 am

Mark I agree on flat mounts. I think you will find that adding panels will offset the gain. In our case, the input is throttled down before you reach anything close to midday. We designed ours originally for 500+ based on our two previous installs. We installed 800 or five 160s from AM. It also adds to production on partly cloudy and cloudy days. I have posted the screenshots before but they are probably in other threads. Here is a day close to the equinox in Arizona and midsummer day in the Outer Banks solar I did for a friend. The last 8 months have been atypical for us and the Banks shot is how we usually camp. These are GMT times. The spike you see is morning coffee and the dead spots are the jet pack downtime.

The Banks usage is with the Uline on testing for residential fridge. The highest spike we recorded to date was just over 700w but normal highs are in the 600s. We won't see the high usually because they have been throttled by solar noon.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #42 – August 11, 2017, 11:02:11 am

Quote from: Charlie G – August 11, 2017, 09:04:10 am

Mark,
I have panels on the roof that sit flat and thought about changing brackets/mounts so they can be tilted. But have the same concerns about getting up there as you are.
How about some liner 12V motors remote or push button? I do not think it would be that expensive and perhaps install two per panel or fabricated that you can tilt either way depending or sun. I bet someone has already done it.
Charlie

Smart! Humpty Dumpty can only climb up so many times before...

Just add a panel if you feel you need more. No need to make things more complex than they already are. Our panels are flat but more than we ever need. With all the new TVs, lighting, etc, our coaches consume much less juice than when the left the factory.

Pierce

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #43 – August 11, 2017, 11:07:26 am

Quote from: George and Steph – August 11, 2017, 09:29:49 am

I have posted the screenshots before but they are probably in other threads. Here is a day close to the equinox in Arizona and midsummer day in the Outer Banks solar I did for a friend. The last 8 months have been atypical for us and the Banks shot is how we usually camp. These are GMT times. The spike you see is morning coffee and the dead spots are the jet pack downtime.

George,

Love all the data. What Victron product gathers the data and what product do you use to read the data?

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #44 – August 11, 2017, 11:10:54 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – August 11, 2017, 11:02:11 am

With all the new TVs, lighting, etc, our coaches consume much less juice than when the left the factory.

When I installed the new 40" LED TV, I was so surprised to see the yellow, government-mandated energy sticker say it would only take $12 to run it all year. It produces almost no heat.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #45 – August 11, 2017, 11:20:41 am

I have tilted ours quite a few times and yes it is a bit awkward leaning over them and I seem to be older than others quoted. Not sure if I can do it for a while after falling off a ladder 3 months ago though, still very sore but that's another thing.
AM Solar does a good job and as G &S have said will give you all the info/ help you need even if not buying from them.
I have been there 3 times buying "stuff" and they did the first install that I have added too and upgraded the wiring runs to controller etc by going to '1 and #2 sizes.
5 yrs now and NO movement of brackets on roof with 3M.
900 watts and serves us fine as we do not plug in or go to RV parks, but are very concious of use of power.
JohnH

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #46 – August 11, 2017, 11:51:39 am

Mark,
I use the 702 battery monitor, the 100/50 MPPT and a Victron Multipass 3000. These all feed to the CCGX which is wifi or Bluetooth capable. I have a post with links to all of it with costs etc but can't get to it right now. Will post it later sorry.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #47 – August 11, 2017, 02:09:26 pm

Quote from: George and Steph – August 11, 2017, 11:51:39 am

Mark,
I use the 702 battery monitor, the 100/50 MPPT and a Victron Multipass 3000. These all feed to the CCGX which is wifi or Bluetooth capable. I have a post with links to all of it with costs etc but can't get to it right now. Will post it later sorry.

I think I found it, George. Solar system upgrade overview

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #48 – August 11, 2017, 05:30:15 pm

That's it Mark. Keep in mind I was a complete novice when I set out so you may spot an issue or two that you would do differently. Hope you find it interesting.

I have been spending my time recently learning fuel systems and reworking the engine compartment and your posts and questions have been very helpful.

Re: Solar Battery Charger

Reply #49 – August 11, 2017, 09:30:53 pm

I am sure that glue works, as many have done it. I also think that glue is easier and maybe quicker as no one has to look for roof structure beams. Also glue must be better if to gelcoat. It sure seems to me that on a painted roof, smooth or bumpy, the glue is only sticking to the top of a thin painted surface that is really not bonded to roof. But then one could scrape away the paint under the mount and attempt to glue to original gelcoat.

But for our coach, we are not concerned about screws into roof as each one is coated with silicone. I know others like 'better' sealant which is fine. We screwed down our Winegard sat antenna, storage pod, shower cover, roof antenna ground plane, so screws should not be considered never to be used.

Tilted panels are sails to a wind storm and it seems that if wind is too high, one may be tempted to lower glued panels.

We use long aluminum angles bolted to solar panels OEM mounting holes, no new holes drilled in solar panels.

Then we use long aluminum angles screwed to roof structures, which are located with electronic stud finder.

Then both long aluminum angles are bolted together, with some locations using nutserts.

This is our way for over 20 years and when we painted our coach, we removed all panels, had Rance fiberglass existing holes and located panels differently after painting. We have three 10' rows of aluminum angles holding 6 panels, each panel wired to a roof mounted combiner box.

Affiliate Notice