Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #25 – February 04, 2018, 10:49:28 pm So, finished cleaning and polishing the rim today and decided on not greasing the brakes. The lining wear is at 15mm (well more than 1/2in), so I guess there's still more than enough grease inside the caliper.Just for reference here the manual states that the linings should be checked at 1/4in and they should replaced at 1/8in. The lining wear is measured by the distance the slide pins stick out at the inside.Bad news is that I could not tighten one of the lug nuts... The whole stud ripped right out...I can't imagine I overtightened it so I guess the nut on the back was already corroded...Tried torquing it to 400 lb-ft... That's still below the stated 450-500lb-ft. Anyone got an idea of where I could get a replacement lug stud and inside nut? I could not find anything in the manual on what torque the inside nut should be torqued...?cheers,Matt Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #26 – February 05, 2018, 07:20:23 am Quote from: Matt_frbrd – February 04, 2018, 10:49:28 pmAnyone got an idea of where I could get a replacement lug stud and inside nut? I could not find anything in the manual on what torque the inside nut should be torqued...?Matt,That stud and nut can be gotten from most any truck shop. I don't have the part number or torque spec off the top of my head but I will walk up to the shop after daylight and look it up and post later if someone don't beat me to it.After looking at you pic. you have plenty of pad left those are near new. When the slide pin gets down to 1/4" I would start to shop around for a set of shoes, depending on your driving habits this may be 80-90k or more away.Mike Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #27 – February 05, 2018, 09:03:25 am May just be the picture, but looks like the studs are oiled.Torque specs are for DRY. Lubed, torque will be well lower than the 450-500 lb-ft. Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #28 – February 05, 2018, 09:19:48 am Matt,I just checked at the shop in my Euclid book and I don't show that stud. I guess its time to get a new parts book. The box of studs that I have on the shelf are for Budd wheels so that isn't any help either. Sorry that I can't help more right now. As a side note: with these on a hub that has disc brakes look for a shop that does fire truck brakes as they will have the studs on the shelf. Mike Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #29 – February 05, 2018, 10:21:24 am Quote from: Super8mm – February 04, 2018, 03:47:05 pmThe improper grease can cost about $600 to correct This is not including paying the first guy to do it wrong. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #30 – February 05, 2018, 12:51:20 pm Quote from: wolfe10 – February 05, 2018, 09:03:25 amMay just be the picture, but looks like the studs are oiled.Torque specs are for DRY. Lubed, torque will be well lower than the 450-500 lb-ft.I lube my Budd studs and torque to 350#-400# Quote Selected 3 Likes
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #31 – February 06, 2018, 12:54:52 am So progress from today:-> Unfortunately had no luck at all with the lug studs, contacted a few places, but got negative or no replies.-> Pulled the wheel off the passenger side and cleaned and checked the brake. Found the very same issue - the squeal clip of the outer brake pad was broken. In this case the broken part was still laying in the caliper, grinding inbetween the caliper and the rotor.I'm starting to think that this is a design flaw. The way the pads and the rotors are positioned, the anti-squal-clips will definitely touch the rotor as the pad wears and I believe that must be the reason why they break in this place.-> Cleaned the whole thing->checked the brake parts and lining wear, it's the same as the drivers side-> replaced the shocks (figured it's really easier with the tire off than when it's on)-> Put the wheel back and (yay), could tighten all bolts to 380ft-lbs. (slightly lubricated the threads with marine grease)So... tomorrow the big hunt for the wheel stud continues...I'll keep you updated,Matt Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #32 – February 06, 2018, 02:09:14 am Regarding the torque specifications of the Alcoa wheels used on our coaches, it is important to note the differing specs and procedures for the hub piloted vs. the stud piloted wheels. For the Alcoa Hub Piloted wheels with the two-piece flange nut, as used on our 1999 model year, the instructions I have show the 450-500 ft. lbs. spec with the studs lubed. The specs for the stud piloted wheels are given as a dry setting. That said, I lightly oiled the studs, the mounting flanges, and the mounting surface on the wheels as per instructions and torqued the wheels to 475 ft. lbs. The 450-500 ft. lbs. spec is stamped right on the wheel lugs.Don Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #33 – February 06, 2018, 08:52:51 am No reason for the inner nut to be much different than the outer nut for torque . Same studd doing the same job. Blue locktite will decrease the corrosion . Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #34 – February 06, 2018, 09:32:49 am Quote from: Protech Racing – February 06, 2018, 08:52:51 am No reason for the inner nut to be much different than the outer nut for torque . Same studd doing the same job. Blue locktite will decrease the corrosion . At least in his photo of the stud (above) it appears the inner and outer threads are different sizes. Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #35 – February 06, 2018, 09:40:52 am Right . They look like one size smaller. Find the size, look up the general torque value chart. Should still be a little over 250# with locktikie . IMHO. 350 may be too much . https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/bolts/US-Recommended-Torque.aspx Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #36 – February 06, 2018, 12:27:20 pm yes, checked the torques as well. The inner thread is a 3/4-16. The outer thread is a M22x1.5.Max torque for 3/4-16 bolts dry is 420 FT LBS according to this:http://americanboltcorp.com/tech/techtorque.pdfSo, that's below the 450-500FT LBS stated on the lug nuts. I can imagine that there is some axle manual out there that actually limits the max torque for the wheel studs to 420... But the M22x1.5 can theoretically be torqued to 500, hence the imprint on the lug nuts...So that might really be a thing to look out for. I torqued mine on the passenger side to 350FT Lbs now (lubed). Will keep a close eye on them, but really cannot imagine them coming loose - fingers crossed...By the way before I took off the passenger side wheel I tried to figure out the torque that was needed to loosen the lugs... the neede torque was all over the place, from 280 to 450ft lbs... sounds like an airgun to me...cheers,Matt Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #37 – February 06, 2018, 12:55:54 pm Matt, I removed the broken anti-squeal pieces from both front brakes several years ago and have not noticed and ill effects after circa 25,000 miles.Also, when I install a wheel (or a tire shop does), I hand torque the nuts and leave the nut covers off. I re-torque the nuts after driving a few miles and find that a couple will tighten a little. This process is included in the Alcoa manual.I have marked the position off nuts after being tightened with an air wrench, then loosened and retightened by hand with a torque wrench. Comparing the position of nuts hand tightened to the position of the nuts air wrench tightened convinced me to never let anyone tightened wheel nuts with an air wrench. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #38 – February 06, 2018, 01:11:09 pm Wyatt is 100% correct. Retorquing with the aluminum wheels IS part of the procedure. Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #39 – February 06, 2018, 01:58:32 pm QuoteComparing the position of nuts hand tightened to the position of the nuts air wrench tightened convinced me to never let anyone tightened wheel nuts with an air wrench.This is something to watch for at Herman Power in Nacogdoches. Several years ago, they installed new tires for us. They used only an impact wrench. I asked what torque they applied and the tech(s) told me that just turn the wrench up as high as it will go. Since then, I insist on manual torquing. Had my tires off at MOT a few months back so they could replace all of the slide pins and they did hand torque at the proper torque.jor Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #40 – February 06, 2018, 02:04:59 pm Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – February 06, 2018, 12:55:54 pmI have marked the position off nuts after being tightened with an air wrench, then loosened and retightened by hand with a torque wrench. Comparing the position of nuts hand tightened to the position of the nuts air wrench tightened convinced me to never let anyone tightened wheel nuts with an air wrench.Yes Wyatt, and on small rotors (cars/PU trucks),impacts, and non torquing (un-even tightening) warps them, which will cause shake when stopping. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #41 – February 06, 2018, 02:25:35 pm Last time I bought tires I went to a large truck tire retailer in the Chicago area, experts you would think.After the job was taking way too long the service manager and I went out to see what the hang-up was.Apparently the "tech" was unable to remove the left side rear tires, he hadn't got past this in over 1 hour of effort. He claimed the lug nuts were corroded on and would not come off. He had stripped several and broken the studs on the rest. A "tech" was trying to remove a stripped lug nut with a vice grip!I saw the service manager walk over to the 2 "techs" and softly say, " you know those are a left handed thread, RIGHT!" He then realized that I over heard this comment.The shop was now closed but he kept a more experienced tech to get the wheel off. He had him cut the wheel off with a torch.They replaced the wheel at no charge.I returned the next day and asked if they had a problem with the other wheels, they did not.They said they could not replace the broken studs, this took a 50mile drive to a shop I felt confident to do that job ( I had enough studs to make this trip). They did have some difficulty finding the right replacement studs.Keep this in mind, some of the older coaches have a left hand thread on the drivers side! KEEP a eye on anyone that approaches to do tire work! Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #42 – February 06, 2018, 02:40:41 pm Lon,next time try TM tire on Midilothian Turnpike in Crestwood,708-597-3078,got my tires there,they knew about the left hand thread. Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #43 – February 06, 2018, 02:54:56 pm Quote from: John44 – February 06, 2018, 02:40:41 pmLon,next time try TM tire on Midilothian Turnpike in Crestwood,708-597-3078,got my tires there,they knew about the left hand thread.I will put that in my notes, thanks!My HORRIBLE experience was at Bauer Built Tire & Service in Romeoville IL. NEVER AGAIN! Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #44 – February 06, 2018, 09:29:15 pm the stripped stud in the picture goes through the hub and holds the rotor on correct? Was the nut backed way out to allow the stud to spin? if the stud was spinning in the hole you may have trouble with the new stud as well because of the splines would have been spinning in the hole they press fit into. likely the stud will be special order as it will be longer on the back side to hold the rotor on. Your wheel in the picture is hub piloted you wont have any left hand thread however stud piloted wheels will have left hand thread on one side and usually the end of the outer stud is stamped on the end. Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #45 – February 06, 2018, 10:07:46 pm So, I learned a few things today.1.) The anti-squeal clips are supposed to slide along the outer side of the rotor as the pad wears. This should help the pad stay in place instead of vibrating around. The problem is that due to the lining thickness the clips have no function at all at first and only should start working when the pad wears down. However in some cases the clips never get to touch the side of the rotor, instead they touch the surface and break immediately due to the pressure.2.) The wheel studs are really hard to get out here, however everyone says that it should be safe to drive the coach with just 9 of the 10 nuts tightened.3.) The only matching wheel stud number is Meritor 09002073. This seems to be the only correct stud. In the internet this number sometimes cross references to Euclid E-11724. However the Euclid part is almost an inch longer and the thread on the back is 3/4-22, not the original 3/4-16 (that's according to an Euclid catalog the parts guy had). One of the several parts people I talked to today said that he might be able to get it, he'll get back to me tomorrow.4.) The local hardware store has a 3/4-16 thread tool and also grade-8 nuts. I figured that I could use two of those nuts and rethread the thread on the stud and at least install it again. Originally there's a 1/8" thick washer on the back of the rotor. This means that I still have 1/8" of good thread remaining. If I'd install it rethreaded and without the washer, there's a chance it'll hold the torque. That's the way I'll go in case I get a negative feedback from the partsguy tomorrow...QuoteWas the nut backed way out to allow the stud to spin? No, the stud did not spin, but pulled straight out. The nut in the back was torn as well as the thread on the stud (there's really no remaining thread inside, it more looks like a hexagonal piece of steel with a hole in the middle than a nut. Means that the serrated part inside the rotor is hopefully still good.So long,Matt Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #46 – February 06, 2018, 10:22:02 pm Findit truck parts has it in a 4 pack for under $40.00 Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #47 – February 07, 2018, 12:37:05 am Quote from: craneman – February 06, 2018, 10:22:02 pmFindit truck parts has it in a 4 pack for under $40.00Yea, if nothing else helps I'll order it here, they ask 19.90USD for standard ground shipping (est 5 days delivery time).... Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #48 – February 08, 2018, 12:41:55 pm So update from yesterday:-> lubricated kingpins and steering components.-> lubed steeringpump and found one zerk missing, obviously ripped right off at the thread (wtf!?)-> got feedback from truckshop that they have a hard time getting the stud as well-> ordered the wheel studs and locknuts from finditparts.For reference here're the numbers:Wheelstud: MERITOR 09-002073 - STUD-SHLDR SERR Locknut (to mount it on the rotor): MERITOR NL112-1 - LOCKNUTSince I cannot wait another week for the parts to arrive, I'll buy a rethreading kit today and try and temporarily mount the old stud back, so it'll look better and will at least give me some additional safety. Quote Selected
Re: front wheel squeaking noise when rolling slow - what to check? Reply #49 – February 08, 2018, 08:22:34 pm Since I cannot wait another week for the parts to arrive, I'll buy a rethreading kit today and try and temporarily mount the old stud back, so it'll look better and will at least give me some additional safety wouldn't worry about it. Put the wheel on with the other 9 and wait for your new stud. I wouldn't want to risk the chance of the serrations wearing anymore than they are already. No reason to spend money on a thread die you will never need again. If the new one does not press in tight our next step is a new hub. Torque to 450-500 with torque wrench. The big air guns are probably what started all this in the first place. These tire guys seem to think lug nuts need to be at 1200 ft lbs! Quote Selected 3 Likes
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