compressor "cycling" every two minutes

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Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #50 – December 10, 2017, 05:25:02 pm

in discussing fhe fittings be aware that there are NPT (national pipe thread) and NPT fine which is a finer thread with a different shape, still tapered, and a straight pipe thread which is not spec'ed as NPT, but something that nuts will thread on. These variations are mostly used in various fuel configurations and small brass/bronze fittings

Wantabe

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #51 – December 10, 2017, 07:33:47 pm

The questions are:
How do I get the bowl off and
what should I do about the missing connection ??
What am I supposed to gain from the comment about pipe threads??Should I look for a different fitting?? Where would I get them??What are you trying to say ?? I am looking for a fix to my compressor problem, and I am not close to Nacadogches. Guess I can wait until we get to Quartzite. Maybe someone there can help me

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #52 – December 10, 2017, 07:57:35 pm

The questions are:
How do I get the bowl off - I will look at my set up tomorrow and respond. It has been a couple of years since I have been there. and
what should I do about the missing connection ??
What am I supposed to gain from the comment about pipe threads??Should I look for a different fitting?? Where would I get them??The parts should be available from MOT or FT. Get price and availability for the glass bowl and the solenoid and we shall see what what you need. In the mean time pick up a 12 volt switch at NAPA and wire it into your power lead to the compressor. That way you can turn it off when you want without pulling the fuse or disconnecting a wire. PM me with your phone # and I'll call you tomorrow AM central time.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #53 – December 10, 2017, 08:38:33 pm

The black ring is what needs to be turned counter clockwise and then the plastic bowl will come down. If it is leaking between the bowl and the solenoid, could have a crack in the bowl or maybe the gasket on the fitting which you will be able to determine once you have it in your hand.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #54 – December 10, 2017, 08:52:55 pm

Glen, many people run for years without their aux compressor. Probably better to wait till Quartzite where you can get some real time instruction. Think in your coach you need at least 70 psi to inflate and deflate your slide seals, so make sure you have that in your tanks before using slides, or run engine first to bring pressure up.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #55 – December 10, 2017, 10:49:11 pm

Thanks to all. jcus....I have plenty of air in the big tanks. I will do as you suggest. Thanks for your patience with me. Seems like it should be a little easier than it is. Even after loosening the four mounting bolts, it is still " tight " up there to disconnect the plastic bulb and the wires from the solenoid. Don't want to screw anything up.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #56 – December 10, 2017, 11:01:39 pm

Quote from: GleamB – December 10, 2017, 10:49:11 pm

Thanks to all. jcus....I have plenty of air in the big tanks. I will do as you suggest. Thanks for your patience with me. Seems like it should be a little easier than it is. Even after loosening the four mounting bolts, it is still " tight " up there to disconnect the plastic bulb and the wires from the solenoid. Don't want to screw anything up.

Good thinking, I don't know how many $10, 2 hour repair jobs, I turned into $100, 5 hour repair jobs. Sometimes it just makes sense to let someone show you in person, or pay someone to do it for you. You will find plenty of people in Quartzite more than happy to help you out.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #57 – December 11, 2017, 09:34:11 am

Hesitate to rejoin this thread, you getting help, but just to try to add some value and a concern......I hope Roger or Scott will respond to this question.

I am thinking, I do not know why, that unlike perhaps an 03, the 01 may not air up the third tank via the coach compressor. In other words, Glen may not be able to fill the third tank by running the engine compressor?

That is really only important in one regard. IF as was in my prior experience, that I could not fill the third tank that way, he has a problem if he tries to move the slide. However the behavior I saw may have only been related to failed check valves but it may have also been that by design one cannot fill the third tank via the engine compressor.

If the third tank is not filled by the engine compressor, and he will not be able to know the psi if he has air in the third tank as he does not have a gauge on his, then he will not be able to deflate the slide bladder. There is no monitor on whether your slide bladder deflates. You have to look at it, be sure it deflated before pushing the retract or extend button. That red light thing is not a monitor of slide bladder deflate, it is only on as a function of time.

Tis late and cold out so I am not running an experiment tonight to be sure my engine compressor will pressurize the third tank.

But whether I was not able to pressurize it due to failed check valves or that the plumbing does not allow the engine to pressurize that third tank, then that is why I had designed a work around to get air into that third tank without the aux working or the engine compressor filling it. It was a method that gave James Triana pause due to DOT so I devised another way too to put air into the third tank if the aux had completely failed.....that can be reviewed again if Glen needs it.

Before Glen you do anything, I hope an owner with an 01 can verify that the engine compressor will fill the third tank. IF it will not, I can help. If it does, you are in luck. I am probably overly cautious.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #58 – December 11, 2017, 10:26:44 am

Quote from: Michael & Jackie – December 11, 2017, 09:34:11 am

Hesitate to rejoin this thread, you getting help, but just to try to add some value and a concern......I hope Roger or Scott will respond to this question.

I am thinking, I do not know why, that unlike perhaps an 03, the 01 may not air up the third tank via the coach compressor. In other words, Glen may not be able to fill the third tank by running the engine compressor?

That is really only important in one regard. IF as was in my prior experience, that I could not fill the third tank that way, he has a problem if he tries to move the slide. However the behavior I saw may have only been related to failed check valves but it may have also been that by design one cannot fill the third tank via the engine compressor.

If the third tank is not filled by the engine compressor, and he will not be able to know the psi if he has air in the third tank as he does not have a gauge on his, then he will not be able to deflate the slide bladder. There is no monitor on whether your slide bladder deflates. You have to look at it, be sure it deflated before pushing the retract or extend button. That red light thing is not a monitor of slide bladder deflate, it is only on as a function of time.

Tis late and cold out so I am not running an experiment tonight to be sure my engine compressor will pressurize the third tank.

But whether I was not able to pressurize it due to failed check valves or that the plumbing does not allow the engine to pressurize that third tank, then that is why I had designed a work around to get air into that third tank without the aux working or the engine compressor filling it. It was a method that gave James Triana pause due to DOT so I devised another way too to put air into the third tank if the aux had completely failed.....that can be reviewed again if Glen needs it.

Before Glen you do anything, I hope an owner with an 01 can verify that the engine compressor will fill the third tank. IF it will not, I can help. If it does, you are in luck. I am probably overly cautious.

Good Point Mike, you may be right, mine may be completely different. If anyone has B-2193 drawing, I think that is for the 2001. Glen may be better off just running 12 volt pump before using slide even if leaking, then disconnecting till next time, slide seals should not leak down if slide valves okay. Sent Glen an email with this new info.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #59 – December 11, 2017, 11:28:21 pm

Well.....I didn't see the last two posts until this evening!! Must say, it gave me a jolt. We HAD to leave the RV camp we were at this morning, and I had read here in past posts that the main tanks would be able to get my slide in/out. I had turned off the leveling system at the start of the problem, last week. The bladder held air fine and the tank gauges showed plenty of air. I fired up the engine and pulled in the slide, as I normally do. It did travel SLOWER than with the aux compressor working??!!! The level light on the dash was on and beeping, so I turned it on and pressed the button twice. Didn't stop beeping. I then raised the coach, then lowered it, to try and get it into "travel" mode. It finally did, and I breathed a sigh of relief. Now that we are set up again for a week, I will try and remove the plastic bowl, and attached solenoid. I disconnected the "hot " line, so perhaps it will be cool to the touch tomorrow. I then need to remove the negative wire, which of course, is in a "tight spot ". If it is too difficult, I will cut the wire and splice into it when I reinstall either it or a replacement part. STILL DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA of what to do with the mystery wire. Maybe it was never used in the first place.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #60 – December 11, 2017, 11:55:17 pm

HWH Air Leveling System Explained
Good reading

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #61 – December 12, 2017, 08:06:19 am

Quote from: jcus – December 11, 2017, 11:55:17 pm

Good reading

Excellent reference - very pertinent to this discussion! Fig. 43 (compressor wiring diagram) may help Glenn identify his "mystery wire".

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #62 – December 12, 2017, 11:05:12 am

That's HWH's Online technical school manual, Lesson 10 (BASIC HYDRAULICS), chapter 3. Hopefully credit is given for that reference.

BASIC HYDRAULICS

The entire course is here -> https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml57000-000.html

and you can save a copy or print sections out as needed

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #63 – December 12, 2017, 06:01:11 pm

I got under the coach today and installed a switch on the hot line. Then, I was successful in removing the plastic bowl. I was also successful in taking apart the solenoid below the bowl. I saw no cracks, although there was some " movement " in the fitting below the bowl. I saw no way to " tighten up " that fitting. I covered the exhaust ports on the fitting and blew hard into the top of the bowl. No LEAKS!!?? I had spoken to jcus this morning, and decided to add some teflon tape to the coil and reconnect it to the valve. I fired up the compressor, it ran then stopped.......for twenty seconds. ( I timed it ). Did it again. Twenty seconds between cycles. So......I guess I have a leak somewhere.......where, I have no idea. Also, after looking at the wiring diagram noted above for a long time, I noticed that there is wiring to the WATER TRAP, with NO MENTION of an Exhaust Solenoid. As I have stated above, my system is wired to the EXHAUST SOLENOID. The male wire is labeled TO WATER TRAP. It goes nowhere. Does anyone know what the difference is between an exhaust solenoid and a water trap solenoid ?? I doubt that this is the answer to my problem, but I have done all that I am able to do at this time. UNLESS someone has any good ideas........

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #64 – December 12, 2017, 06:19:01 pm

Check your PMs.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #65 – December 12, 2017, 08:17:00 pm

one of two check valves is plugged, the small brass one on the compressor itself or the one that is in the bay with the compressor on a 1/4" line on the 0utput of the compressor. only way for the compressor to cycle ofter is if there is a decent leak, and if that is the case it won't shut off fast.

Ahhh, but there is an exception. If a check valve is partially obstructed on the outflow from the pump, the pump can reach 90 PSI quickly sine the valve is in line very close to the compressor. and the volume of space to be pressurized is small. But if it is partially blocked (outbound) of the compressed air, it will continue to do its job (allow are outbound, albeit at a reduced rate) and that small volume will quickly go down below 60 PSI and the pump will turn back on.

To repeat, the only way that the compressor leaks down to 60PSI quickly is a big leak on the entire system, or a small leak in a small portion of the system near the compressor. And the only way the compressor reaches 90 PSI in 12 seconds from 60 PSI is if the compressor is pressurizing a very small space. So the culprit is either the check valve (brass) on the compressor itself (again, it is stamped with a TINY horizontal "y" with a "o" in the y. (that indicated direction of flow for that valve.)

If it is not the one mounted on the compressor body, it is the brass one in-line right near the compressor that is on a line that flows outward from the compressor

At least that is what it was no my coach..... :-)

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start

TCER Direct generator-gas-prod 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #66 – December 13, 2017, 10:48:32 am

I am going to install a gauge on the compressor.
what is my next step.....to remove those brass check valves and see if they are clogged ??

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #67 – December 13, 2017, 11:44:05 am

Just an update.....
I've been speaking with some very helpful members, by phone, about this issue. I was able to operate my slide/ bladder on Monday, with the aux compressor OFF !! It was suggested to me that it was "good news, bad news " and that the reason I was able to do so was that I had a bad check valve somewhere allowing air from the big tanks to "backfill" my third tank. I am 10 hours away from Nac, on our way to Quartzite. I have to get some safety stands made up, so that I can work under the coach. I am then faced with learning how to remove, test, replace check valves on the system, or yielding to higher powers and having the work done in a shop. Sounds like lots of $$$$, IF I can find a reputable mechanic between South Padre Island and Arizona. I am currently trying to find Michael's post about installing a gauge, with no luck. I also will review the procedure to use the safety stands correctly. I believe that I run engine, raise coach ( how do I know when it is at highest level? ), place stands and then lower the coach?? Any tips about how to remove/ replace check valves, especially if hard to disconnect, as I have read?? Thanks, once again

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #68 – December 13, 2017, 12:16:53 pm

Quote from: GleamB – December 13, 2017, 11:44:05 am

I also will review the procedure to use the safety stands correctly. I believe that I run engine, raise coach ( how do I know when it is at highest level? ), place stands and then lower the coach?? Any tips about how to remove/ replace check valves, especially if hard to disconnect, as I have read??

Glenn,

Keep a positive attitude! The work you are describing is not intellectually challenging. Because of the location of components, and the fact that connections can be very tight, working on the air system can be physically difficult. You can do it!

Safety stands: My opinion: make them out of metal, and get 8 of them. Engine running - let your air compressor cut out, so system pressure is at maximum. Hold down on the "raise" button until the coach stops going up. You can feel when it stops moving and is at the top of air bag travel. Shut off the engine, then release the raise button. If you release the raise button with the engine running, the coach will immediately start to drop back to travel position. Walk around and put your stands in place. My opinion: whether or not you let the coach down onto the stands is optional. If I am doing a short job under the coach, I just leave it in the fully raised position after I insert the stands. That way when I'm done I don't need to start the engine (again) before I can remove the stands. Our coach will remain in the fully raised position for quite a while, but will eventually slowly drop down onto the stands. Anyway, that's up to you.

The check valves can be VERY tight. Depending on access to your valves, it may be difficult to get sufficient leverage on your wrench when you go to remove them. All you can do is play around with different positions on the wrench until you find the "magic" combination. For tools, the best choice is a long box end wrench. (remove the air hose first) Next best is a long open end wrench. Adjustable wrenches and pipe wrenches should be your last choice. If you have room, you can use a "cheater pipe" on your wrench of choice to increase leverage, but tight confines can make this tough.

Edit: If you have a set of large size, deep 1/2" drive sockets, you may be able to use them for some of your air system work. Not as common to find sockets this size in the average tool kit, but thought I'd mention it.

If your check valves are like the ones on my coach, they come apart into two pieces. You can use a big wrench (1 5/16" or 1 3/8" I don't recall which) to break the valve in half. Then you can use a smaller wrench to remove the male threaded valve half from the tank.

Keep us informed of your progress. You are not alone! Many of us have been down this path, and many more will follow your lead.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #69 – December 13, 2017, 12:43:43 pm

Thanks for that info !! Got to go shopping for safety stands and big wrenches. You taught me some valuable lessons here. Just one more thing... seems the vote is to replace, rather than try to clean the existing valves....

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #70 – December 13, 2017, 12:52:51 pm

Quote from: GleamB – December 13, 2017, 12:43:43 pm

...seems the vote is to replace, rather than try to clean the existing valves....?

Take a look at the insides when you get them apart. Odds are, you will want to replace them, especially if they are original factory. If there is one in salvageable condition, you could clean it up and save as a "emergency backup" in your parts drawer.

Reminder: It is highly recommended to avoid using any kind of teflon tape on the air system. All the smart kids on this Forum use a pipe sealing paste made for high temp air systems. I use either LOCTITE 567 PST or PERMATEX 59214, whichever I happen to find when I go shopping. You only need this stuff on the pipe thread fittings, such as the ones on the dryer and the air tanks. Any hose connection with a flare or compression fitting does not require the use of sealant.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #71 – December 13, 2017, 04:09:25 pm

Update....
I was told to check the bladder with a credit card to see if was holding air. Could't get card in= good!
I turned on the compressor and it just ran.....I decided to close the valve to the bladder. Took a deep breath. Compressor kept running=good.
I was told to check to see if the solenoid below the plastic valve's coil was "magnetized " when the compressor was running. It IS magnetized.
I decided to switch the wire marked "to exhaust solenoid " with the one marked " to water trap solenoid." My reasoning was that when I looked at the HWH diagram 43, yesterday, it noted the valve below the plastic bowl as being Water Trap. Nowhere could I find the word "Exhaust ". I heard a few air exhausts, but scared myself, and switched the wires back to where they were. I have a call into tech help at HWH for SOMEONE to tell me what the difference is between EXHAUST and WATER TRAP solenoids might be. I still have no idea why I have the mystery wire. We will if they call me back. Still believe there must be a leak somewhere, and am on my quest to find it. In the meantime I will turn the compressor off, until we have to move the slide in or out.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #72 – December 13, 2017, 07:07:24 pm

Dear Glen,

a. Gauge installation. The first photos are of the air line that connects the gauge to the aux compressor tank pressure and hence to the aux compressor psi. The "T" where the gauge gets its pressure (photo 1). On the gauge you will see where the air line attaches and there is a green wire. It is simply a ground wire. My gauge is wired to light up (photo 6), easy to read, upon opening the bay door.

b. Other green wire. I have another green wire and there is a photo of its connection (photo 3,4). The other end however I do not know where it goes for it joins a bundle of wires and such to go off into another part of the coach. (photo 5)

c. Photo 6 is to emphasize the compressor on/off toggle switch that is installed right beside the gauge.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #73 – December 13, 2017, 10:53:25 pm

Thanks you so much for taking the time to post those pictures, Michael. Greatly appreciated. Looks like a real good set up. I was on the phone today with a tech from HWH, asking about my mystery wire " to water trap solenoid ". He didn't have a good answer why there isn't a female connection for it. He did suggest, as you and Scott did, that I install a gauge on the compressor to know exactly what it's putting out. When I asked him where he thought was best, he was fast to say right where the air comes out, which would be at the top of the cylinder. I asked if he had any ideas of how I could tap into the small fitting for what appears to be 3/16" or 1/4" hose, and what gauge I should use, but he wasn't able to help. I imagine that I will use a plastic tee and adapt a gauge to the tee with some hose and a fitting. I have also received some advise from Roger and Susan, again a different location of his gauge than what HWH suggested. So I am still a little troubled with this part of the fix. I am not near a big enough town for good parts supply, and will be in Big Bend next week,which is even more remote, so this all may have to wait til we get to Tucson, in a bit. Thanks to all for your help. This is truly a great site. I love being part of the Foretravel fan club.

Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes

Reply #74 – December 13, 2017, 11:17:37 pm

If your still in South Padre the area is full of oilfield supply stores that would have most of the parts you will need.

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