8D Battery

Topic: 8D Battery (Read 3222 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #25 – January 15, 2018, 08:01:16 pm

Hey guys,

where did you purchase the Full Rivers?

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #26 – January 15, 2018, 09:17:29 pm

I got mine at AA Battery in Minneapolis. In stock, nice discount, nice credit for cores. Picked them up, no shipping.

Distributors of Fullriver Batteries

US Battery and Trojan are good alternatives to FullRiver

Collections – Metroplex Battery
Is a good source as is
DC Battery Specialists - Wholesale Batteries

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #27 – January 15, 2018, 09:50:44 pm

To help clarify previous comments, and because "technically the AGM battery is still considered to be a wet cell". (see last paragraph, in blue font)

"Basically, there are two types of lead acid batteries (along with three sub categories). The two main types are starting (cranking), and deep cycle (marine/golf cart). The starting battery (SLI starting lights ignition) is designed to deliver quick bursts of energy (such as starting engines) and therefore has a greater plate count. The plates are thinner and have somewhat different material composition.

The deep cycle battery has less instant energy, but greater long-term energy delivery. Deep cycle batteries have thicker plates and can survive a number of discharge cycles. Starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications because the thinner plates are more prone to warping and pitting when discharged (this warping can cause a shorted cell, failure). The so-called Dual Purpose Battery is a compromise between the two types of batteries, though it is better to be more specific if possible.

Wet cell (flooded), gel cell, and absorbed glass mat (AGM) are various versions of the lead acid battery. The wet cell comes in two styles; serviceable and maintenance free. Both are filled with electrolyte and are basically the same. I prefer one that I can add water to and check the specific gravity of the electrolyte with a hydrometer.

The gel cell and the AGM batteries are specialty batteries that typically cost twice as much as a premium wet cell. However, they store very well and do not tend to sulfate or degrade as easily as wet cell. There is little chance of a hydrogen gas explosion or corrosion when using these batteries; they are the safest lead acid batteries you can use. Gel cell and some AGM batteries may require a special charging rate. If you want the best ,most versatile type, consideration should be given to the AGM battery for applications such as Marine, RV, Solar, Audio, Power Sports and Stand-By Power just to name a few.

If you don't use or operate your equipment daily (so you are storing your batteries fully charged), AGM batteries will hold their charge better than other types. If you must depend on top-notch battery performance, spend the extra money. Gel Cell batteries still are being sold, but AGM batteries are replacing them in most applications.

There is a some common confusion regarding AGM batteries because different manufactures call them by different names. Some of the more common names are "sealed regulated valve," "dry cell," "non spillable," and "valve-regulated lead acid" batteries. In most cases, AGM batteries will give greater life span and greater cycle life than a wet cell battery.

SPECIAL NOTE: It's common for individuals to use the term "gel cell" as a generic term when referring to sealed, maintenance-free batteries, much like one would use Kleenex when referring to facial tissue. As a result, be careful when specifying a gel cell battery or gel cell charger, as many times it is used by a user or sales facility in error.

AGM BatteryAGM: The Absorbed Glass Matt construction allows the electrolyte to be suspended in close proximity with the plates active material. In theory, this enhances both the discharge and recharge efficiency. Common manufacturer applications include high-performance engine starting, power sports, deep cycle, solar and storage battery. The larger AGM batteries we sell are typically good deep cycle batteries and they deliver their best life performance if recharged before allowed to drop below the 50% discharge rate. The Scorpion motorcycle batteries we carry are a nice upgrade from your stock flooded battery, and Odyssey branded batteries are fantastic for holding their static charge over long periods of non use. When deep cycle AGM batteries are discharged to a rate of less than 60%, the cycle life will be greatly reduced.

GEL: The gel cell is similar to the AGM style because the electrolyte is suspended, but it's different because technically the AGM battery is still considered to be a wet cell. The electrolyte in a gel cell has a silica additive that causes it to set up or stiffen. The recharge voltage on this type of cell is lower than the other styles of lead acid battery. This is probably the most sensitive cell in terms of adverse reactions to over-voltage charging. Gel Batteries are best used in VERY DEEP cycle application and may last a bit longer in hot weather applications. If the incorrect battery charger is used on a gel cell battery, poor performance and premature failure is certain."

From Lifeline, this is a link to the most useful and accurate information about AGM batteries. I have now used this publication as a source since 2008 in my motor homes and has been recently updated in Feb of 2017. http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-0101-Rev-E-Lifeline-Technical-Manual.pdf

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #28 – January 16, 2018, 11:12:21 am

For those not willing to pay the hefty AGM prices at their battery store, Craigslist is an excellent source for batteries. This is how I found ours. Great deals come up if you check frequently. They also have 315 watt panels for $100 used. Here is an example of an ad in Sacramento's Craigslist for brand new Shuriken AGM batteries in various sizes: Shuriken Car Batterys - electronics - by owner - sale

Pierce

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #29 – January 16, 2018, 02:46:35 pm

I see the full river 8d's are designed for 14.7 volts in both bulk and absorbtion modes. Most alternators would not be set or set able that high? Would seem to preclude the use of the current industry wide use of a combiner versus an isolator as most engine starting batteries other than full rivers maybe are not made for long input of that high of voltage?

The lifeline aircraft grade shows in their top use for planes. They max at room temps at 14.3 volts I see.

Our mk gels are max at 14.15 at room temps. That allows a combiner it seems as the red tops were made for cars with a normal 14.2 or so alternator output.

Interesting read on the lifeline tech stuff.

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #30 – January 16, 2018, 05:37:13 pm

The FullRiver Batteries are designed to accept 14.7 volts but not to require it. Charge times increase at lower voltages. My 40si 240 amp Delco has a solid state digital voltage regulator that adjusts voltage output (even with the voltage loss in a diode based isolator) to reach the desired voltage at the sensed battery which is about 14 volts. The charger on the inverter or the solar charger or my secondary battery charger will put out about 14.7 volts or more for an appropriate time before backing down to a lower voltage.

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/cms/charging-instructions-1076628007.pdf

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #31 – January 21, 2018, 03:20:51 pm

UPDATE: I have been watching those battery on Craigslist and made the seller a offer pending they pass a test. They passrd,with flying colors 100% charge and 100% life left in them.
And..... Are you ready.......
He took my $400.00 offer for Both!
Yep 2 Almost brand new 8D AGM batteries for 400 bucks!!

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #32 – January 21, 2018, 03:46:24 pm

Are they truly agm's? never seen vents on one.

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #33 – January 21, 2018, 04:04:28 pm

Those aren't vents - they are "regulating" valves. In normal operation they are closed.

Good buy on the batteries - they look exactly like the last O'Reilly AGM8D's that I bought (for $450 each). Photos of my batteries below:

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #34 – January 21, 2018, 04:49:30 pm

Quote from: stump – January 21, 2018, 03:20:51 pm

UPDATE: I have been watching those battery on Craigslist and made the seller a offer pending they pass a test. They passrd,with flying colors 100% charge and 100% life left in them.
And..... Are you ready.......
He took my $400.00 offer for Both!
Yep 2 Almost brand new 8D AGM batteries for 400 bucks!!

You Go Stump.!!!

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #35 – January 21, 2018, 06:44:03 pm

Quote from: craneman – January 21, 2018, 03:46:24 pm

Are they truly agm's? never seen vents on one.

Neither have I but it does say AGM on both labels. Can't turn these on their sides though.

Lots of good battery/solar panels on Craigslist but you have to look everyday.

P

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #36 – January 21, 2018, 08:20:29 pm

Yes, they are AGMs, they are made by East Penn, just a different brand of East Penn's like my agm Intimidator brand that I put in used a couple months ago. Mine were 4 1/2 years old, prev installed new 5-17-2013. On another post I said I'd admit and update the post when they failed. Mine most likely will not go below 20% discharge as I have 540 watt mppt solar with an excellent Morning Star MPPT controller, a Xantrex pure sine wave converter/inverter with adjustable charge rates, and I am used to watching the battery charge condition, and keeping as fully charged as possible.

When I installed the three 8ds I had to change the connectors as they had become enlarged over the years probably from wire brush cleanings as batteries were replaced over the years, they just would not snug up properly. I also installed, as seen in the picture below, a battery cutoff, for both ground connections for this battery system and another back at the engine battery. When away from the rv this guarantees no parasitic drain that could ruin these three agm 8ds.

Keep them charged properly, do not discharge below 40% and I'm confident you will get years of service, at least beyond your $$$ investment / per year / compared to installing new.

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #37 – January 21, 2018, 08:29:02 pm

I can find no published specs for the Magna-Power batteries. Does that information exist?

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #38 – January 21, 2018, 08:50:47 pm

Plus one on the disconnect, though I did it on the positive lead. Hard to believe from looking at Jacks picture of three 8D's installed in that compartment, but it is possible to get 4 of these in that space. I made a custom slide out for the top layer to allow for the switch and a bus bar set up. All 8 cables from the batteries are the same length at 32" long, and the leads to the inverter through the Magnum Mini-Pnel adds less than 4'. Both battery trays can fully extend without disconnection. That said, I don't casually extend the batteries like they were my sock drawer, as these 4-0 cables are pretty thick and heavy. Some care is required! Also, since the solar charge controller is tied in through the Magnum mini-panel, the solar disconnect must also be off to isolate the 12 volt coach house systems from power... and of course, the boost switch must be off as well as the inverter (when on shore or generator power). With so many possible sources for 12 volt power, I have to go through my mental check list before working on the 12v systems. Forgetting something can let the smoke out.

Don

Quote from: Jack Lewis – January 21, 2018, 08:20:29 pm

When I installed the three 8ds I had to change the connectors as they had become enlarged over the years probably from wire brush cleanings as batteries were replaced over the years, they just would not snug up properly. I also installed, as seen in the picture below, a battery cutoff, for both ground connections for this battery system and another back at the engine battery. When away from the rv this guarantees no parasitic drain that could ruin these three agm 8ds.

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #39 – January 21, 2018, 08:52:32 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – January 21, 2018, 06:44:03 pm

Can't turn these on their sides though.

The things on the top of the AGM batteries being discussed are not vents. They are valves. They will not open or permit the emission of gas or electrolyte unless the battery is severely over-charged. VRLA AGM batteries can be mounted in any position.

See the discussion below for further clarification:

VRLA battery - Wikipedia

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #40 – January 21, 2018, 09:34:33 pm

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – January 21, 2018, 04:49:30 pm

You Go Stump.!!!

Icing on the cake Stump, you forget to deduct the $35-40 core charge on these monsters. Stump for president!

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #41 – January 21, 2018, 09:40:15 pm

Don - what and where did you get those HD cabinet slides?

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #42 – January 21, 2018, 10:16:26 pm

Don's post is so accurate. The positive disconnect is the right way to go. My reason for the negative disconnect was it was easy to do, and fast, and with less chance of sparking (shorting) to positive. My solar disconnect is on the positive. I went for 10 years with only 2 8Ds and 150 watt solar on my Monaco rvs. Thus three 8D's, the larger 560 watt solar, is luxury for me. Four 8Ds is better and lets you have a shallower discharge compared to 3 or 2 given the same amp draw, thus longer battery life. Excellent choices Don, well thought out. The bars, the even length larger cables, all make for a terrific system. And yes, exercising the mind to know where and how the 12V and lethal 120V systems are at that moment is vital when working on your rv, nothing is so urgent that you do not have time to double check. I even find myself flipping breakers off when working on 120v even when I know the rv is unplugged.

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #43 – January 21, 2018, 11:58:52 pm

I got the 500 LB full extension lock in/lock out 24" drawer slide on eBay.
500 LB Full Extension Lock In/Out Drawer Slide 3600 Series | eBay
This link should be the ones I got a couple years ago. This is the same seller and the product looks the same. I really like that they lock in as well as out. It makes loading the batteries much easier...
Don

Quote from: Old phart phred – January 21, 2018, 09:40:15 pm

Don - what and where did you get those HD cabinet slides?

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #44 – January 22, 2018, 01:42:05 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – January 14, 2018, 12:44:20 pm

Good point about the not living off the grid use. Those who do not travel as much from pedestal to pedestal maybe can better justify the extra money for the double cycle life of the gels?

Because our batteries are "buried" between the frame rails, Foretravel used Gel batteries..We replaced with the same (Penn/Deka)

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #45 – January 22, 2018, 11:00:59 am

Don, you have a drawer just for socks🙀

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #46 – January 22, 2018, 12:19:03 pm

Quote from: rbark – January 22, 2018, 11:00:59 am

Don, you have a drawer just for socks🙀

...custom fabricated from mirror-polished stainless steel and aluminum, of course!

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #47 – January 22, 2018, 12:28:17 pm

Don what length did you use?

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #48 – January 22, 2018, 12:31:24 pm

We've got fresh 8Ds, looking over the connections , I was reminded of what Brett said the other day: "a few of us are getting a little too old to heft those batteries around."

Re: 8D Battery

Reply #49 – January 22, 2018, 12:39:45 pm

You the man Stump

Affiliate Notice