Still running hot

Topic: Still running hot (Read 2148 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Still running hot

Reply #25 – June 03, 2018, 10:06:05 am

"Are you certain the coolant overflow is coming from the overflow tank and not the deaerator box cap"

Bob, this is new ground for me - I have never heard of any reference to a deaerator box or disc before this discussion. Your account of what happened to you prior to correcting the problem sounds like what I've experienced. When I was doing my radiator project, I did not replace the bypass hose your referenced. I would have to look at my engine to find it.
We will be stopping at Oregon Motorcoach in Eugene, OR this week for a windshield replacement on our way to Portland. I will ask them tell me more about it.

Thank you for pointing this out. Sven

Re: Still running hot

Reply #26 – June 03, 2018, 10:30:25 am

Quote from: George – June 02, 2018, 10:51:27 pm

Mister on 94 6v92, works great on 2 Alaska trips

George,

Excellent installation. Nice and neat. I don't recall any misters that are black and look like that. Description, source and price?

Ken, I remember when you really were battling overheating. What was your problem and solution. You sound like you have it cured.

What kind of water do you use? Filter in line? Do you get deposits on the radiator face?

Pierce

Re: Still running hot

Reply #27 – June 03, 2018, 01:54:25 pm

Bob I am Glad the higher rated fan controller worked for you also.

I squandered the better mpg by going faster. Get 8.2mpg at 75.

I do like the noticeably better torquer power from the resonator and lower power loss fan drive.

Engine downshifts much less. Pulls instead of revving.

Same exact temps on dash and silver leaf after the swap.

Thanks for the post on the disc. I think mine wrong also.

Will have the Cummins guys check it.

Only 9.6? Was it windy? Dumb question across the Plains.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #28 – June 03, 2018, 02:49:26 pm

Endless hills and wind.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #29 – June 03, 2018, 03:00:29 pm

Perfect conditions across Nebraska/Colorado at your speeds flat ground got into 11's.

Slight increase in mpg,I thought, as the batteries got full and the solar covered the coaches actual use driving.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #30 – June 03, 2018, 03:10:33 pm

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – June 02, 2018, 06:43:19 pm

The Safari was about 2000# lighter and had a rear radiator, which worked to contain the heat in the engine compartment, but don't want to spend time with the comparisons. The FT has many more features that I prefer. I won't put down the Safari, because I believe it was a fine RV and well made.
Back to the issue: I use distilled water for the radiator, which should be better than RO. As far as I remember, it is as pure as water can get, devoid of all minerals which are precipitated out in the distilling process (we did this in chem lab back in the "college days").
I always use the dash heater in these situations and the ambient temperature was under 80. The only remedial action that I didn't take was opening the cowling (engine compartment door). I also base my driving on RPMs and temps. How fast I am going is indicative of the engine performance.
Sorry if my frustration comes through. The only thing that has made sense so far, is the fan speed, it might not be kicking into high.

Sven on my 99 there is a little silver box on back of engine compartment with wired and small hydraulic lines. this is the fan control box and I have read if you unplug it the fans run in high only. Apparently the PO had heat problems and when I got the coach the unit was un plugged. I am in need of a new radiator, so once that happens I plan to reconnect everything.
Chris

Re: Still running hot

Reply #31 – June 03, 2018, 06:56:28 pm

Allison Economy mode could save a few gallons of diesel but will always make that saving with increased engine stress and heating, which cannot make the engine last longer.
It is a balance between fuel cost vs engine wear cost. I think fuel MPG is way overstated as a goal for a 30,000+ pound vehicle, for the miles we drive in a year. A better goal would be to keep coolant temps between 180 & 190, mostly at lower end of spread. RPM, MPH & EGR gauges can keep temps in line, no matter the road incline. Keep cruise control turned off on up-hills. Maximum-speed is not a friend.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #32 – June 03, 2018, 07:12:47 pm

Agree. Think all coaches should have a EGT gauge [exhaust gas temp.]. This will give you an indication of load on your engine far faster than any temp gauge. Many big trucks come standard with pyrometers.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #33 – June 03, 2018, 09:25:20 pm

I can not get a straight answer from anyone at Cummins including the rep that sells Foretravel their engines to my inqiury as to whether the ECU reduces power until the motor is fully warmed up.

Thermostat is fully open at 195. Stock hydraulic variable speed controller idles the fans up to 165 not off because of the intercooler. 15 degree ramp up to 180. Full speed at that point consumes over 50hp.

My shop foreman noticed that my coaches hydraulic reservoir was really hot when I drove it on.

His comment was the controller locked on high as a normal warmed up thing could tend to overheat the oil and wear the fans and pump and power steering box which could cause premature leaking....

Plus reduce the mpg and suck up 30-40 horsepower out of the motor.

He knew of no other vehicle running a 180 max speed controller..

Fan on max always. Engine normally not warmed up fully. Restrictive probably rusted inside muffler heating the bedroom for hours after a drive.

Bob and I and others have noted the considerable improvement in power and mpg from these mods.

Coach was not fun to drive with it's constant downshifting under medium loads.

I posted here 6 years ago when I first drove our coach that something was wrong.

Plus leaking Winn fuel filter and cracked fuel lines and high rolling resistance tires.

Coach required less brakes then as the tires slowed the coach down.

Now I have to use the brakes much more.

It's not the mpg. It's the engines torque that was being consumed elsewhere in the coach.

I am surprised a 99 has a electrical high/low fan controller.

The internet upgrade from the Oregon people is the hydraulic variable speed controller

Everyone elses rv runs a 185-199 controller.

Yes I called Cummins southeast. No one there or at Cummins remembers what was in my 97's ECU.

Cold engines may tend to violate smog laws? Or the fuel might be reduced to not damage a cold engine?

Re: Still running hot

Reply #34 – June 03, 2018, 09:42:50 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – June 03, 2018, 09:25:20 pm

The internet upgrade from the Oregon people is the hydraulic variable speed controller

Can you provide more details on this? I agree, running a diesel at too low a temp is not doing it any favors. The stock fan controller is a primitive solution.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #35 – June 03, 2018, 10:15:07 pm

Took,me a few minutes to find this info.

Source Engineering Inc | Custom RV Chassis | Eugene, OR

http://sourcerv.com/tvck_flyer.pdf

Wax valve/fan controller - iRV2 Forums

Bob and I posted this info a while ago, please save the info.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #36 – June 03, 2018, 11:55:18 pm

Thanks Bob I appreciate you digging that info up. I'm trying to figure if this new wax valve is proportional varying fan speed based on temperature or just high and low. I do get that your conversion set high for a higher temp.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #37 – June 04, 2018, 12:28:13 am

Proportional by coolant temp. See the link showing the install I posted.

I used to have the speed ramp up chart graphic. Let me look

Here is a graphic from a 4 year old post here

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22839.0;attach=28843

Re: Still running hot

Reply #38 – June 04, 2018, 12:17:44 pm

Had some thoughts overnight. I am thinking most m11 engines were speced to work with manual trans.

No need for the disk in the thermostat housing area. So logical none were installed.

Maybe Foretravel tested early m11's and noted some heating.

Not knowing why maybe the easiest fix was to max the cooling fan on by running the odd lower temp controller,

Maybe separately mis plumbing the de aeronator and overflow as Bob Rozen has found could be a separate issue.

That the prevost guys found the needed disk missing on 8v92 engines may indicate the same issue on engines shipped from Detroit.

It's been posted here that some had and some did not have the disc's in their engines.

The post of a 99 with a electric fan speed controller might indicate that Foretravel was testing alternatives to reduce temps maybe not knowing the disc?

Although Foretravel can build the system many ways maybe a customer asked for the electric fan speed low/high setup.

Or it was less money? Anyone else after 97 have an electric controller?

Maybe a call to James T.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #39 – June 04, 2018, 01:00:43 pm

Bob,
The M11 Cummins factory manual clearly indicates that a disc is absolutely necessary when a transmission cooler is used. Without the disc there is inadequate flow through the cooler. It would be interesting to find out how many have verified they have the disc. Could be related to cooler failures.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #40 – June 04, 2018, 08:04:33 pm

Or trans heating....?

Several posts here a while ago reporting both ways...if memory serves me.

Thanks for your info as my coolant recovery tank empties.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #41 – June 05, 2018, 05:40:56 am

Early on I found that I would not lose any additional coolant once the system purged out enough to leave the deaerator box 1/2 empty and the overflow tank empty. With the orifice disc installed, the level now operates within the hot/cold levels on the overflow tank.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #42 – June 05, 2018, 08:39:14 am

Hi Bob Rozek,

I am wondering where the "decelerator box " is located.

Jim

2002 U320 with M-11 and Aqua Hot

Re: Still running hot

Reply #43 – June 05, 2018, 11:04:42 am

Deaerator box

Re: Still running hot

Reply #44 – June 05, 2018, 11:20:55 am

The tank at the highest part of the cooling system (right side photo in post above) has a small hose that allows any air in the cooling system to evacuate into the tank. The small line in the pressure cap neck goes to the overflow reservoir. Our small line was leaking and had to be re-soldered. Pretty easy with a backerboard or something else flameproof placed above while soldering. The sensor toward the bottom will shutdown the engine if the coolant level falls below it. Keep the overflow tank level between the marks as indicted on the side of the plastic tank. Should be checked before you go anywhere in the morning. Goes without saying that the clear window must also show coolant at all times. Pressure cap can also be tested or just replaced if in doubt or loosing coolant.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #45 – June 05, 2018, 11:26:37 am

Also that tank can be kept full and the overflow will work without overflowing. Just looked and mine is full and the overflow is at the cold mark. Traveled from Los Angeles to the Sierra's Saturday.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #46 – June 05, 2018, 11:57:58 am

If everything is correct the coolant in the overflow tank will displace any air in the deaerator box as the coolant in the system expand and contracts.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #47 – June 05, 2018, 12:05:01 pm

Quote from: Bob Rozek – June 05, 2018, 11:57:58 am

If everything is correct the coolant in the overflow tank will displace any air in the deaerator box as the coolant in the system expand and contracts.

Yes, the pressure/deaerator tank should be full at all times. This is why it's important to keep the overflow/expansion tank within the marks. This is exactly like most cars work.

How is the weather at Oh Ridge today?

Piece

Re: Still running hot

Reply #48 – June 05, 2018, 02:33:23 pm

We've been on the road for the last couple of days, so have not kept up on thread. If I put coolant in the overflow tank, it ends up spewing all over the Jeep. "Sumpin ain't right". We drove up the grade to Tahoe from Carson City and managed to keep the temp to 217, 3rd gear and 40 mph.

Tomorrow we will be in Eugene, Or at the Oregon Motorcoach Center for windshield replacement. I will ask them about it and the nearby Cummins facility that FT recommends. Hard to keep their mittens out of my pocket.

Re: Still running hot

Reply #49 – June 05, 2018, 02:44:35 pm

Sven,

Have you checked your radiator reservoir/pressure cap yet? A faulty cap will quickly fill the overflow tank and then out the back.

P

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