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Topic: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer (Read 3204 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #25
...so the gauges on the dash are reading the two front tanks...
Correct.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #26
Thanks Chuck that is what I was doing wrong, I was leaving it running and try to run around the coach when I measured it so I cut the rear ones at 9" and the fronts at 10".

I think this time around I can get by with the 9" in the rear and it might even be better for me and my short arms "LOL"  I can remake them latter as I still have (2) 11'  and a 6 ' pieces left over from a previous project, they are the same size as the width of the frame rails and heavy wall.  It only took me about a hour to cut and deburr all 8 last night.

I will probably have to rebuild the 6 packs after November and the bags will deflate in about 24 hours.
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #27
Thanks Chuck, I understand now, so the gauges on the dash are reading the two front tanks then

Yes.  Verify that the check valves have not failed:

Open the drain by the left rear wheel and remove all air from the wet tank. 

Close the valve.

Half hour or so later, re-open the drain valve.  If any air comes out, one or both check valves have failed.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #28
Yes.  Verify that the check valves have not failed:
Open the drain by the left rear wheel and remove all air from the wet tank. 
Close the valve.
Half hour or so later, re-open the drain valve.  If any air comes out, one or both check valves have failed.

Thanks Brett, I drained the rear tank yesterday and closed the valve, I just checked it and not even a small puff came out.

I took off the mud flap and I have plenty  of room to work.  I got the little horses loosened but the 2 big ones are soaking in power blaster, they dont even want to budge, I will give them another shot before I leave and then come back in the morning.  :)  I have already soaked my shirt  :'(
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #29
Steve, you may give those a bit of heat ( just slightly warm)with a small touch or heat gun the spray them. Also a little TAP with a hammer in the CCW direction may also help.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #30
Steve, you may give those a bit of heat ( just slightly warm)with a small touch or heat gun the spray them. Also a little TAP with a hammer in the CCW direction may also help.
Thanks Beane, I will bring my heat gun tomorrow, I need it any way for the heat shrink
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #31
...2 big ones are soaking in power blaster, they dont even want to budge...
Don't be discouraged - just keep working on them and they will eventually let loose.  It took my longest wrench, augmented by a 2' cheater pipe and my total body weight (160# soaking wet), to break them the first time.  I think mine were installed by a 500 pound gorilla on steroids!

When you finally get around to reinstalling the fittings on the new dryer, do yourself a favor and put a dab of "anti-seize" on the threads.  You'll be glad you did on the next R&R.

Permatex Anti Seize Lubricant 0.1 oz. - Ace Hardware
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #32
Don't be discouraged - just keep working on them and they will eventually let loose.  It took my longest wrench, augmented by a 2' cheater pipe and my total body weight (160# soaking wet), to break them the first time.  I think mine were installed by a 500 pound gorilla on steroids!

When you finally get around to reinstalling the fittings on the new dryer, do yourself a favor and put a dab of "anti-sieze" on the threads.  You'll be glad you did on the next R&R.

Permatex Anti Seize Lubricant 0.1 oz. - Ace Hardware
Thanks Chuck, I have some good silver antisieze dope.
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #33
Well I have the new one ready to put back in but it will be Sunday or Monday mornings but where do these to?

Thanks

Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #34
Hi Steve,

I hope your air dryer replacement goes smoothly. We put on two newly rebuilt units and both had the wrong psi safety popoff valve installed. Not knowing how/if your coach differs from ours. Psi of rebuilt unit was 175. Psi should have been 205 or 210. I believe there is info on Beamalarm regarding this. Sorry I don't have a link for you but sure someone here will speak up on that.

We now have our old unit reinstalled. Only serviced the filters. I believe the Pure Air is obsolete, hence only rebuilt units are available. I would like to go with a different air dryer manufacturer in the future.
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #35
Thanks Mike J, are you taking about the pressure in the tanks?  mine was about 110 -115 psi on the old one.
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #36
Thanks Mike J, are you taking about the pressure in the tanks?  mine was about 110 -115 psi on the old one.


Our "defective" rebuilt ones had wrong popoff/safety release valve on them. Shop doing work didn't catch it. Apprently Cummins knows this issue exists on rebuilt units but didn't tell us until we asked. I recall some talk here or on Bealalarm about it. FT uses a higher psi than usual. Not sure about NAPA ones.

This isn't the psi in the tanks. It is only the air dryer safety popoff. Once system reaches max pressure. Cutoff at 130psi
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #37
I think there might some confusion about the terminology here. The purge valve on the air dryer is part of the normal cycle of the compressor being unloaded when the D2 governor reaches its set point, it causes the purge valve to open which is what you hear when the set PSI is reached. The pop off valve on the wet tank (normally 150 PSI) shouldn't release unless there is some problem with the governor or purge valve. It is there to keep the tanks and other parts of the air system from rupturing and to protect the compressor. At any rate, it is the D2 governor that that maintains the air system at the appropriate safe pressure to operate the air brakes, suspension, etc. Some people like to set the governors a little higher, say between 110 psi and 130 psi (usual range of 20 psi between cut off and cut in). The ones I have bought from Freightliner or Napa have been preset at 105 to 125 psi.
At least, that is my experience and understanding of the system (and I am always seeking to learn more about how these complex systems interact).
Don
Our "defective" rebuilt ones had wrong popoff/safety release valve on them. Shop doing work didn't catch it. Apprently Cummins knows this issue exists on rebuilt units but didn't tell us until we asked. I recall some talk here or on Bealalarm about it. FT uses a higher psi than usual. Not sure about NAPA ones.

This isn't the psi in the tanks. It is only the air dryer safety popoff. Once system reaches max pressure. Cutoff at 130psi
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #38
Thanks Don for clarifying, some of  the systems get confusing
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #39
I think there might some confusion about the terminology here. The purge valve on the air dryer is part of the normal cycle of the compressor being unloaded when the D2 governor reaches its set point, it causes the purge valve to open which is what you hear when the set PSI is reached. The pop off valve on the wet tank (normally 150 PSI) shouldn't release unless there is some problem with the governor or purge valve. It is there to keep the tanks and other parts of the air system from rupturing and to protect the compressor. At any rate, it is the D2 governor that that maintains the air system at the appropriate safe pressure to operate the air brakes, suspension, etc. Some people like to set the governors a little higher, say between 110 psi and 130 psi (usual range of 20 psi between cut off and cut in). The ones I have bought from Freightliner or Napa have been preset at 105 to 125 psi.
At least, that is my experience and understanding of the system (and I am always seeking to learn more about how these complex systems interact).
Don

Hi Don. From your description it seems that the D2 valve came installed with the rebuilt air dryers we had installed? Our air purging problems under acceleration ceased once we reinstalled the OEM dryer that came with our coach. Both rebuilt units we had tried purged air at a lower psi that what should have been. When engine rpm ramped up and compressor speed increased during acceleration the dryer would purge continuously for 10-20 seconds. I too am in search of a better understanding of these systems.

Iv'e had a tech use the term "load and unloader" valve on the air compressor. Is this the D2? If so why would replacing new dryer rebuilt units with our old OEM fix the low psi purging? Must be something internal bad on our two rebuilt units? I just want Steve to get correct dryer for his coach and not a bad unit or one that wasn't built to FT psi specs. Maybe my experience is we just got unlucky twice...
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #40
Did you follow reply number 5 and get an isolation valve,sounds like that may be what your talking about.The D-2 valve is located
near the engine air compressor and no where near the air drier and the air drier does not come with a D-2 valve.If the "tech" is at
the coach when he asks about the unloader ask him what he's talking about,no way any of us can tell.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #41
Did you follow reply number 5 and get an isolation valve,sounds like that may be what your talking about.The D-2 valve is located
near the engine air compressor and no where near the air drier and the air drier does not come with a D-2 valve.If the "tech" is at
the coach when he asks about the unloader ask him what he's talking about,no way any of us can tell.

I know the techs who worked on our coach wouldn't have installed anything related to air dryer that was incomplete. Word I got was the pressure relief valve on the dryer wasn't rated for the higher psi that FT required. Cummins guy tipped us off that this so called "pressure relief" valve is often not correct on rebuilt units. Wish I had more info than that. Is there a pressure relief dedicated to/and installed in the air dryer? Is the isolation valve what they are misnaming? Something was definitely amiss that was independent of air compressor. Could this explain why our two new/rebuilt dryers kept exhausting air when they shouldn't.

This from service tech email: "Michael, The rattling noise may be the compressor loading and unloading. I know that on Cummins the compressor makes a bit of noise when it is loaded up. It is normal to a point. If it starts sounding like a loud engine knocking noise that would concern me. That would tell me the compressor is not feeling well. The unloader valve may need serviced, That would be something I would have a certified Cummins Repair shop do. They get carbon build up and sometimes causes them to make noise and stick."

His description doesn't sound like a D2 valve to me.
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #42
Did you follow reply number 5 and get an isolation valve,sounds like that may be what your talking about.The D-2 valve is located
near the engine air compressor and no where near the air drier and the air drier does not come with a D-2 valve.If the "tech" is at
the coach when he asks about the unloader ask him what he's talking about,no way any of us can tell.

Yes I did get the Isolation valve, the two square rubber pieces with adehivse back came with the dryer and I am not sure where they go.  I will get it installed in the morning I think.

the other item in question is what should be popping off at 205 to 210 PSI that Mike J was talking about.  I am not sure where mine will be until I get it installed
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #43
Steve, Nothing should ever get to 210 psi. Our gauges read 130-128 when air dryer purges. The higher amount you are referencing is what I was told the mystery air dryer "safety valve" is supposed to be set for. But honestly I can't justify you worrying about this. If your air dryer is correct in all respects for what your coach uses than you will be good to go. It seems we had unusual problems with our rebuilt units, or a bad supply chain.

Besides that the air diagrams can be different among coach builds. Air dryers seem to be common units but determining what went wrong for us has been a headache. Really don't want to muddy the waters for you.
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #44
Steve as others have said, the D2 air governor is attached to the air compressor. It controls the total maximum air pressure that can be in the  system, it's what cuts the compressor off. 120-130 PSI is what they are set at, doesn't have any thing to do with the air dryer. There is a safety valve in the air system I think on the dryer that will pop off if the governor should fail. In short the dryer should never see any more than 120-130 psi.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #45
The D2 valve is not installed on the air dryer, but is connected to it via the isolation valve on the coaches equipped with a Holset compressor. However, the isolation valve is not installed on (as far as I am aware) coaches after 1999 when they changed from using the Holset compressor which required the isolation valve mounted on the air dryer to the Wabco which does not. There are some good videos on Youtube that attempt to explain the operation of the D2 governor and its relationship to the dryer, wet tank (or reservoir), and compressor. Here is one with a cut away view of the D2;

https://youtu.be/9Vb32PL1PVU

There are others ranging for very basic explanations to more advanced trouble shooting steps for the air brake systems. As always with these videos on Youtube (or any information on the internet for that matter) consider the source and cross check where possible before arriving at your own understanding. It won't be long before you have the basics. ^.^d
Don
Hi Don. From your description it seems that the D2 valve came installed with the rebuilt air dryers we had installed? Our air purging problems under acceleration ceased once we reinstalled the OEM dryer that came with our coach. Both rebuilt units we had tried purged air at a lower psi that what should have been. When engine rpm ramped up and compressor speed increased during acceleration the dryer would purge continuously for 10-20 seconds. I too am in search of a better understanding of these systems.

Iv'e had a tech use the term "load and unloader" valve on the air compressor. Is this the D2? If so why would replacing new dryer rebuilt units with our old OEM fix the low psi purging? Must be something internal bad on our two rebuilt units? I just want Steve to get correct dryer for his coach and not a bad unit or one that wasn't built to FT psi specs. Maybe my experience is we just got unlucky twice...
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #46
Is there a pressure relief dedicated to/and installed in the air dryer?
Mike,
The dryer has a relief valve screwed in the bottom of the unit.
There is a pressure relief valve screwed in the wet tank also.
The isolation valve don't bleed air out to atmosphere.

Pamela & Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #47
Right! I forgot about that one, part of the general service kit, 150 175 PSI. Still, it isn't part of the normal loading/unloading cycle. Normally, they should never go unless there is something really wrong.
Don
Edit to correct the Pressure relief PSI setting.
Mike,
The dryer has a relief valve screwed in the bottom of the unit.
There is a pressure relief valve screwed in the wet tank also.
The isolation valve don't bleed air out to atmosphere.

Pamela & Mike
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #48
Word I got was the pressure relief valve on the dryer wasn't rated for the higher psi that FT required. Cummins guy tipped us off that this so called "pressure relief" valve is often not correct on rebuilt units. Wish I had more info than that.

This from service tech email: "Michael, The rattling noise may be the compressor loading and unloading. I know that on Cummins the compressor makes a bit of noise when it is loaded up. It is normal to a point. If it starts sounding like a loud engine knocking noise that would concern me. That would tell me the compressor is not feeling well. The unloader valve may need serviced, That would be something I would have a certified Cummins Repair shop do. They get carbon build up and sometimes causes them to make noise and stick."
In the 1st paragraph quoted above, Mike J is wondering about the pressure relief valve which is screwed into the bottom plate on the Pure Air + dryer.  I have also been confused since he first brought up this point.  I think I have finally found a old thread that clarifies this question.  It seems, when FOT installs a DQ6026 rebuild kit in this dryer, they do not utilize the KN31527 (175 psi) pressure relief valve which is included with the kit.  Instead, they install a KN31529 (200 psi) relief valve.  It is this fact that leads to the confusing information he was getting from the techs at OMC.  Why Foretravel makes this change in relief valves is beyond me.  I cannot imagine any situation where a 200 psi safety valve would be preferable to a 175 psi safety valve, especially since the air system should never (even in the event of D2 failure) exceed 150 psi (rating of the pressure relief valve in the wet tank).  The full thread is the first link below:

Haldex Pure Air Plus Relief Valve

KN31527 - Pressure Relief Valve - Haldex product

KN31529 - Pressure Relief Valve - Haldex product

In the second paragraph quoted above, the tech is using the term "unloader valve" but did not adequately explain what he was talking about.  He is not talking about the D2 governor.  The unloader valve is a internal part of the air compressor.  It is located in the top of the compressor cylinder head.  It is the mechanism that reacts to the pressure signal from the D2, and directs the compressor to start and stop compressing air.  It can get dirty, become noisy, and if not serviced, eventually (after many thousands of miles) might cause the compressor to malfunction.

Hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Pure Air Plus Air Dryer

Reply #49
Thanks Chuck, great info.  ^.^d
Steve

1997 U270 36' build 5179
Motorcade #18147
1980 CJ5