Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Topic: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration (Read 3282 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #25 – December 04, 2018, 08:35:57 pm

Jim one other thing to remember in that compartment is the heat generated from the return line to the fuel tank. You have probably read the same posts in the past that I have concerning fuel temps and would want to keep the tank at least half full.

I also added a 120 outlet and use a small 200w heater in that space. If boondocking, I do as you mentioned and turn off the inverter. Solar is also turned off with overnight lows as I don't want the morning sun charging.

Though I have not had to or attempted to, I think the 16 amp draw of the heater could warm the compartment in a short amount of time and then kick in the Genset. But I haven't done more than wool gather on that idea.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #26 – December 04, 2018, 09:16:29 pm

Thanks George, my fuel tank is behind my battery compartment so hopefully not too much heat transfer, but do keep over 1/2 tank all the time. Aqua-hot is in opposite compartment so when its running should help keep battery compartment warm enough. I am going to buy a remote reading thermometer with audible alarms so I can keep track of temps down there from inside the coach.
Still waiting for my battery monitor and shunt before I get it going, but am wondering like Bob, how to get the inverter to go into charge because the voltage does not drop to signal charge to start. [I have a Victron multiplus} How is yours set up?

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #27 – December 04, 2018, 09:29:13 pm

Lithium is a great idea, no voltage drop, 100% SOC usability. Light weight. Quick charging. What's not to like?

Temp....

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #28 – December 04, 2018, 09:32:39 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – December 04, 2018, 09:29:13 pm

Lithium is a great idea, no voltage drop, 100% SOC usability. Light weight. Quick charging. What's not to like?

Temp....

Price....

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #29 – December 04, 2018, 09:56:21 pm

My system is set up with an external BMS that receives direct signals from the batteries. The shunt to the 702 to the CCGX and the Digital Multi. There is no internal battery management component. Have you programmed the inverter for the parameters of the BBs? I am not familiar with them. You may want to drop Roger a note or ask BB if they have a script you can load into the Multipass. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #30 – December 05, 2018, 08:54:58 am

Two things:

1. OVER VOLTAGE PROTECTION
I put three 1N3314 Zener diodes across the house 12VDC bus just in case the lithium system voltage rises above 15 VDC. Here are photos of the data sheets. Three diodes can dissipate up to 150 watts of power and are mounted on a big honking heat sink. See photos below.

2. FREEZE PROTECTION
Two methods:
A. INVERTER OFF
The propane furnace supplies heat to the cabin and basement.
Lessons learned: These fans should have been 12VDC so that they could run with the inverter off. I am concerned with freezing without the fans. I may add a small branch duct off a propane hearer duct under the couch and route it to the lithium battery compartment.

I am boondocking at French Creek State Park in Pennsylvania under trees and a cloudy sky. The solar panels may only produce 1KWH today, enough to survive, but with a night time low temperature of 25 degrees, I will have to more actively prevent pipes and batteries from freezing.

B. INVERTER ON
Two methods:
a. There are four small, quiet four inch 115VAC fans that circulate warm air around the basemenmt: Two fans bring in warm cabin air and push it to the basement. Two circulate air around the basement.
b. Two 115VAC Frost King 200 watt heat strips warm the water and waste tanks when the temperature is 42 degrees or less in the basement. The lithium battery has no heat strips.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #31 – December 05, 2018, 09:22:04 am

Quote from: jcus – December 04, 2018, 09:16:29 pm

. [I have a Victron multiplus} How is yours set up?

Something to get you started.. I have not been able to spend time in the coach to try any of this yet.. float around 13.8 but never seen 14.4 ... im still a little confused on this so havnt spent much time on it..

but it is working as is and as advertised .. still have questions but like I said, confused

https://2n1s7w3qw84d2ysnx3ia2bct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-LiFePO4-Generic-Charge-Settings.pdf

Victron Lithium Battery Setup

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #32 – December 06, 2018, 12:50:45 pm

The second link above shows the screen shots of your Multipass. This what the script I mentioned will upload into and is described by the author. But this will depend on the settings from BB and their recommendations for their battery's. It is not difficult to do but you will need a PC.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #33 – December 06, 2018, 01:47:17 pm

Quote from: George and Steph – December 06, 2018, 12:50:45 pm

The second link above shows the screen shots of your Multipass. This what the script I mentioned will upload into and is described by the author. But this will depend on the settings from BB and their recommendations for their battery's. It is not difficult to do but you will need a PC.

Yes, I have Victron Configure on my laptop, BB takes slightly different settings than the Victron batteries. Alan at Bay Marine works with BB and they have established good settings. He sent me screen shots of BB recommendations.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #34 – December 06, 2018, 02:33:22 pm

Just met him in person a couple of weeks ago. Very gracious with his time and a real gentleman.

Just as an aside, the Victron solar controller has a lithium setting as well. Small bevel underneath with arrow to set. You are going to be very happy with these after initial set up. The two chargers talk to each other and remove any conflicts.

Enjoy!

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #35 – December 07, 2018, 01:39:07 pm

My coach lost over 500 lbs of ugly battery fat.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #36 – December 18, 2018, 11:34:46 am

Quote from: bdale – December 03, 2018, 10:11:06 am

"... a quick reading of the online manual for the Magnum advanced remote control (ME-ARC) seems to show a custom setting where the charger can be set to come on in bulk charge. "

I believe you're referring to the "Start Bulk" feature? That's the manual setting that I referred to above. It has to be reset every time the batteries are charged. Here's what the manual says about it:

Start Bulk – This selection restarts the Bulk cycle from any stage in the charge cycle as long
as AC is present and the charger is active. The Start Bulk setting is useful when a full multistage
charge cycle does not bring the specific gravity of the batteries to the proper level.
Info: The Start Bulk selection automatically returns to Multi-Stage once the status
displays "Bulk Charging" (or "Constant Current" if battery type CC/CV is selected).

Researching a little further, it looks like the CC-CV battery type settings may solve the problem. Magnum tech support mentioned this setting but recommended staying with the Custom battery type. I'll need to call them back to see if CC-CV is a good option, and how to configure it.

"Do the battle born batteries have an internal battery management system?"

Yes, but their internal BMS only protects against overcharging, drawing too many AH's out before re-charging, charging outside of safe temperatures etc. The other variables like charge rate & charge voltage are determined by the external charger.

I intended to switch my Magnum from custom battery type to CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage) to resolve the issue where the charger can only start in Float mode due to the higher voltage of the LiFePO4 batteries. I couldn't find that option on my ME-ARC remote. Magnum now tells me that it wasn't available until version 4.0. Mine is 3.01, and is not upgrade-able. To use CC/CV I'd have to buy a new remote. So, I'll live with it for a while and see how it goes. Worst case is that it charges at the lower float voltage unless I manually force it into re-bulk mode. Even at float voltage it's putting over 70 amps into a 20% drained battery bank. That may be good enough for most situations but whenever charging with the generator, re-bulk would need to be started manually to speed it up.

Magnum says they are working on custom profiles for LiFePO4 but will not have anything available anytime in the near future. And they may require a new controller as well.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #37 – December 29, 2018, 05:27:03 pm

Finally got help today and removed the 3 gel 8Ds and installed the 3 BattleBorns. I'm letting the inverter run a charge cycle, in absorb mode for a little while longer then I'll set the SOC at 100% in the BMV-712 and shut off the charger. I plan to check back in a couple days to see how well the solar panels keep up the charge. I'm plugged into shore power so shouldn't have much battery draw. After the holidays I'll spend a few nights in the coach to do a full test on battery power.
I decided to put the BBs on the top shelf and use the bottom shelf for storing spare parts. They fit well but the 3/0 battery cables were pretty stiff to work with. Would have been much easier if I had made new cables but decided to use the existing ones.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #38 – December 29, 2018, 11:13:22 pm

folivier, looks good. The 3/0 cables, if they are indeed battery cable are pretty stiff. Much stiffer than EPDM covered welding cable which is what they must have switched to by 2001. I wired up my L16 6v batteries with 4/0 welding cable. Petty flexible stuff.

When you get to it change those cables to three sets of equal length cables that go to bus bars. A switch on at least the negative side after the bus bar makes it easy to isolate the batteries. Shunts for battery monitors go after the bus bar. Then from there with a negative cable to the common negative post on the next bay. The cable from the positive bus bar goes to a common post in the next bay as well. I am liking the idea of a switch in the plus side after the bus bar as well. You should have a 300 amp fuse at the plus common post now.

I will be looking for this BB Black Friday Sale next year. My lifelines will be 8 years old and if they have any poop left in them I will wire them up to get charged from my 9600 watts of solar on the house for a power outage backup.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #39 – December 30, 2018, 12:17:15 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – December 04, 2018, 09:29:13 pm

Lithium is a great idea, no voltage drop, 100% SOC usability. Light weight. Quick charging. What's not to like?

Temp....

Since my RV will spend some winters in Oregon not plugged in, some weather low 20's, yes temp prohibits me, next will be gel or again agm, because of that.

Oriellys has online 15% off till year end on AGM8D, 8D AGM @ 459 less 15 %

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #40 – December 30, 2018, 12:51:45 pm

Quote from: Jack Lewis – December 30, 2018, 12:17:15 pm

Since my RV will spend some winters in Oregon not plugged in, some weather low 20's, yes temp prohibits me, next will be gel or again agm, because of that.

Oriellys has online 15% off till year end on AGM8D, 8D AGM @ 459 less 15 %
[/quote
Are there any temperature restrictions on your LiFePO4 batteries? - Battle...

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #41 – December 30, 2018, 01:53:39 pm

Quote from: jcus – December 30, 2018, 12:51:45 pm

Quote from: Jack Lewis – December 30, 2018, 12:17:15 pm
Since my RV will spend some winters in Oregon not plugged in, some weather low 20's, yes temp prohibits me, next will be gel or again agm, because of that.

Oriellys has online 15% off till year end on AGM8D, 8D AGM @ 459 less 15 %
[/quote
Are there any temperature restrictions on your LiFePO4 batteries? - Battle...

Thank you Jcus, So if the only problem with cold is charging below 24 degrees, I will look at these again.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #42 – December 30, 2018, 01:56:33 pm

I was going to start another thread but I'll integrate this here as it's still has to do with lifepo4 setup and install. I am looking to install the li-bim 225

If has a spot for chassis and house batteries. As per photo.. any idea where the alternator wire goes? Do I need to drop the isolator completely to tie this in? Also thinking the boost switch wire can be ran to this directly at the switch wire? A little confused .

Pics and another install sheet that has the same basic setup .. any ideas?

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #43 – December 30, 2018, 02:00:49 pm

As long as you have a BMS ( built in battery management system) you can't really hurt these to bad.. it takes most of the thinking out of it. If the basic operating parameters work then you shouldn't have an issue for the most part.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #44 – December 30, 2018, 03:02:42 pm

Quote from: DavidS – December 30, 2018, 01:56:33 pm

I was going to start another thread but I'll integrate this here as it's still has to do with lifepo4 setup and install. I am looking to install the li-bim 225

If has a spot for chassis and house batteries. As per photo.. any idea where the alternator wire goes? Do I need to drop the isolator completely to tie this in? Also thinking the boost switch wire can be ran to this directly at the switch wire? A little confused .

Pics and another install sheet that has the same basic setup .. any ideas?

To me, appears to take the place of the diode isolator, and alternator, sense wire, etc should be on the chassis battery. In my case I removed the isolator and am only using the boost circuit to join the two banks together if necessary. I can watch both banks while driving and see SOC of house batteries so can manually connect and disconnect them as needed. Haven't really needed to use the boost switch much, because the lithium batteries charge much faster than lead acid.
Do agree that the Battle Born's are pretty much "operator error" proof.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #45 – December 31, 2018, 09:04:27 am

Quote from: DavidS – December 30, 2018, 01:56:33 pm

I was going to start another thread but I'll integrate this here as it's still has to do with lifepo4 setup and install. I am looking to install the li-bim 225

If has a spot for chassis and house batteries. As per photo.. any idea where the alternator wire goes? Do I need to drop the isolator completely to tie this in? Also thinking the boost switch wire can be ran to this directly at the switch wire? A little confused .

Pics and another install sheet that has the same basic setup .. any ideas?

The alternator wire goes to your chassis battery. Since the chassis battery is connected to the Li-BIM 225, the alternator is indirectly connected through it as well. Note that this is not a battery combiner but a timer to limit charging to 15 minutes of every 35, with 20 minutes between for cooling the alternator. As jcus said, it should/can bypass your existing isolator or combiner but I'd recommend keeping your boost relay as well.

Correction....I could be wrong about still needing the boost relay. Maybe the Li-BIM 225 replaces that as well by connecting the boost switch wire to the "Sig" post? Here's what the directions say for that post.

"Provides Emergency Start with Dash Switch. Optional power connection for existing
applications, and ground connection to allow Emergency Start of either battery"

I know that the Isolation Manager was Battle Born's recommended solution for anything more than 2 batteries. I probably should have done that but chose the DC-DC charger instead.

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #46 – December 31, 2018, 11:37:40 am

I am thinking running the boost wire to the sig post on the li-bim. Taking the alternator wire install on the chassis with the chassis battery and see how that goes. Not going to connect the ign at this time and see how it goes

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #47 – January 24, 2019, 01:36:30 pm

Installed two more Battle Born batteries . BMV 712 monitor shows 87 amp use while running fwd ac in heat pump mode on inverter. Load is actually about 125 amps, but solar was supplying about 40 amps at the time. Hoping that on a sunny day, will be able to run down the road with alternator and solar supplying enough to allow me to run one ac without the generator, and not deplete the batteries. Unit does have a Micro Air Easystart, so no big initial load on inverter. [Victron 3000]

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #48 – January 24, 2019, 01:55:19 pm

Jim will the alternator do the load alone?

Re: Battle Born LiFePO4 Battery Integration

Reply #49 – January 24, 2019, 02:22:50 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – January 24, 2019, 01:55:19 pm

Jim will the alternator do the load alone?

In theory yes, the alternator should put out 160 amps, but as others have pointed out, it does get pretty warm at high outputs, so the less load on it, the better. I have removed my battery combiner, and now only rely on a upgraded [200 amp] boost solenoid to connect alternator to house bank. I figure that if I disconnect alternator for about 20 min every hour, the batteries will not deplete too much, and the alternator can cool down.

Affiliate Notice