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Topic: Coach batteries  (Read 1681 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #25 –
Both the AGM and gel mk batteries require temp  controlled charging and the AGM's for sure like and need the 1/5th of capacity charging.  My understanding is the Gels are not as ,if at all, affected by a slower charge rate(like solar)

6 years ago the mk spec sheets showed a bigger gap in cycles than currently.

Their engineer then(2014)  mentioned a change in plates and internal supports and connections I posted here back then.  Seems to have worked well

Your 2015 and the current 2017 chart match and show a considerable change in AGM cycle life and a tiny bit in the gels. 

Lifeline shows similar cycling to the mk gels. Seems mk/east penn has improved their products.

If you can always charge your batteries at 1/5 C,including solar, no one should have any long term  issues IMO.

Remember lost capacity cannot be restored on AGM's other than Lifelines.  Gels are basically unaffected by slow charging.

Every unicoach made has east penn gels in it new. 

We are supposing the o'reilly's are the exact same product as the mk gels the chart references. 

Maybe yes.  Maybe no.  Second line?  Different process?  Same test results when made as they fully discharge then recharge them in production.

No idea if the orielly's are done the same more or less other brands.

O'reilly's does not sell any gels for whatever reason.

hard to generate 1/5 th C from solar.  Not needed with gels. 

I borrowed two 9 year old gels originally from my buddy used in a electric bus conversion and never rotated and the cabling was on each end of the string so the end batteries did most of the work.  The two centers had 85% capacity after countless cycles. 

My buddy used to be an extensive lifeline user but he had warranty issues with them even if he removed them and individually equalized them to restore capacity.  Not that old.  Under warranty.  They disallowed some claims.  He took them to lifeline personally.

He finally switched to mk gels only. No issues. No reduced capacity. No calls. Happier customers.

Probably the same from Foretravel with Michelin's and Mk Gels.

No calls is good.  Happy customers come back.  "Never gave me no problems" was my favorite words.

My 15 year old heart freedom only charged at about 70 amps into the house batteries from contactor wear.

Most owners do not rotate their batteries and/or maintain their cabling perfectly so a battery that does not lose capacity from low charge rates probably makes the normal customer happier longer.

My buddy puts in xantrex power pro in almost all his coaches.  Most customers look at the gauge to see how much power they have.

We here are nerds and retentive.  He has maybe a small percentage of his users that know or want to know about all this.

So for general big coach use with heavy electrical draws and normal owners he only uses the gels as errors will not kill them as fast.

Lots of playing with batteries when he used the Lifelines.  Almost none now.

He did say that the Lifelines are excellent batteries but still AGM's

He will not install anything other than mk gels or Lifelines
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #26 –
Every new coach made uses a combiner as far as I have been told,

Does not combine for starting as that covers up bad engine batteries. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #27 –
Quote from: bbeane –
You usually have to coach the counter people to look up the right ones at O'Riley's. Might be best to get the manager. Be sure you tell them to get you batteries no more than 3-4 mos old all the same date.


X2 on getting O'Reillys brand when I talked to a local store sales person they said there was one in one warehouse and another in another warehouse in 2 different states. I told the person I wanted to order 3 with a close mfg date and he told me that wasn't possible!  So I went to the local warehouse  and told them what I wanted, salesman said not a problem and promptly ordered 3 AGM8D batteries. They came in a few days later and were all within 30 days mfg date--worked for me
Chris
1999 U 320 DGFE
Build Number 5523
Chris & Elka Lang
In the field, Lonoke AR

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #28 –
The charts I posted are from today on the manufacturer's websites.  Current information.  Obsolete data is not relevant. The last Unicoach was built 14 years ago.  Likely none have the original batteries.  Everything built since 2006 has been a Nimbus or a Phenix or IH45 or IC37.  Maybe a few odd special orders.  The last Unihome was built in 1995.

"If you can always charge your batteries at 1/5 C,including solar, no one should have any long term  issues IMO."
No charging system continuously charges your batteries at C/5.  Not your alternator, not solar, not the inverter charger.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #29 –
Unihomes were built 14 years ago. Unicoaches are being built today. Front door.

The chargers  do charge at 1/5th C in bulk.  Up to what the batteries will accept.

My three 8g8d's accept 110 amps in bulk charge.

The alternative charge, at least from mk  or lifeline which are American made is either 1/5th C or 1/20 th C.

In my case my solar is slightly less than 1/20th C. 

Remember I posted about the shorter life and non equalizable batteries when it comes around.

Done hundreds of battery change outs. 

As has .foretravel. 

We al! needed better so the gels were installed in thousands of coaches new.

Seems this is now how inexpensive you can get by with.

If your coach was a very long term "keeper" and the gels were the same price would anyone still buy AGM's?

So it's just cheaper. Not the same for less money.  Different idea.

Equalized countless batteries trying to restore them long ago.

I have better things to do versus worrying about correct battery charge rates to restore the plates so that I do not lose capacity.

Same with my optima red tops.  Cummins says the m11 needs 2200 amp hours to start.

The three red tops are 2,400.  Winter takes more.  So I cannot lose any.

Hence the combiner.  Like all new coaches have. 

If you never let the red tops run down they retain their capacity very well.

Seems a lot here NEED to pay less to keep up their coaches.  God bless. Seriously.

I built a hundred old FTX Foretravels into new interior coaches for customers that could never buy a new coach.

Was great fun. Made a lot of people smile.

Made my store good money.  Foretravel quit having to,support my store to the tune of $50k a month in 1986. 

C.M. Fore told me that allowed him and the factory to pay off Oshkosh's chassis flooring credit line and spend the money to build the Unihomes a lot here drive to this day.

I have forgotten about the need to economize not because of cheap but for real need.

I found for my long term ownership of almost everything we own that the best quality lasted longer and gave better service during its life.

But what do I know? 35 years of high line rv's.  Custom built a hundred new high line motorhome from various brands.

Bit me hard to,cut quality.  Lost customers trust. Not a good business model.

But that's serms to be in the past here. 

Inexpensive.  Cut corners. 

Go for it. I spent a lot of time to update my old info to new ideas.  Much better for me.

Thank goodness the technology has changed.  Fixed every issue I spent time on 30 years ago.

No way I am going back.  Way too many bad trips.  Too much time.  Less fun. 





"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #30 –
Hey Bob, appreciate your posts, we"ve had many similar experiences and responsibilities, it all was fun.

New tech....?  Next thing you know you'll have a few lifepo4 batteries!  Yes technology is great, however a lot is to be said for old fashion experience.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #31 –
And on and on we go. I guess only the very best batteries will do, never mind the $$$. Please excuse my attitude, buttt.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #32 –
Seriously checked into li-ion.  A perfect world would be a tesla powerwall. 

Price and temp restrictions were drawbacks then and now.

I rarely exceed the temp limits in actually.

Without the actual needs for the amp hours the system and setup is a future project.  Maybe.

Jack I had forgotten your similar experiences.

Miss my old friends.  Dick Crandall. Susan Graham.  Don Fults.  Dick Martin.  Don Kelley.  Many others.

Guarantee people were competitors but friends.  That's the old days in the rv biz went

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Coach batteries

Reply #33 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Every new coach made uses a combiner as far as I have been told,

Does not combine for starting as that covers up bad engine batteries. 
While at the FOT ladies' driving school in fall 2014, James T. told us about the VSR, Voltage Sensor Relay, I (and many others in attendance) elected to have them installed right then & there, as I recall they weren't terribly pricey (like $200-300) and not difficult to install yourself. So far very pleased with the performance, seems this instrument gets the two battery banks to "talk to each other" and keep things charged up, & with all the time she's spent in storage in recent years, it works for me...doesn't hurt that I have two fairly new sets of the top grade of batteries available...(thank you, Paul Yasbeck, always gets the best). I also have the Xantrex 3000 inverter & have thus far not had any issues with starting her up when coming out of storage.