Current resonator opinions

Topic: Current resonator opinions (Read 2884 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #25 – July 02, 2019, 11:09:14 am

Quote from: Olde English – July 02, 2019, 11:04:46 am

Let me get this right, pressurizing the intake creates exhaust back pressure ??

Naturally. You are compressing the air and feeding it to the intake so the exhaust has to spin the hot side of the turbo and it can't do that for free. Has to be a little back pressure created but it cuts a lot of the noise compared to a straight pipe.

Pierce

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #26 – July 02, 2019, 11:21:00 am

Perhaps look at it a slightly different way.

The turbo wheel in the EXHAUST has restriction for the exhaust-- certainly more than if it weren't there.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #27 – July 02, 2019, 11:24:01 am

To clarify a little more,the turbo has 2 wheels,an intake and a exhaust.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #28 – July 02, 2019, 02:16:52 pm

Seems like a free flowing exhaust will create a larger exhaust pressure differential before and after the turbo, thus increasing turbo efficiency, right? Always heard less back pressure on diesel the better at least on older diesels.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #29 – July 02, 2019, 02:21:31 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – July 02, 2019, 02:16:52 pm

Seems like a free flowing exhaust will create a larger exhaust pressure differential before and after the turbo, thus increasing turbo efficiency, right? Always heard less back pressure on diesel the better at least on older diesels.

The same for gas engines. The purpose of headers was to create a venturi effect with the primaries to scavenge the exhaust.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #30 – July 02, 2019, 02:45:19 pm

Quote from: craneman – July 02, 2019, 02:21:31 pm

The same for gas engines. The purpose of headers was to create a venturi effect with the primaries to scavenge the exhaust.

With the exception being two stroke bikes and the large expansion chamber required. Guess it's from the lack of valves and exhaust cycle....

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #31 – July 02, 2019, 04:18:37 pm

The less restricted any hot high speed gas flow is before and after the turbo. The more of it's energy can be transferred to spinning the turbo.
My (now gone) 2014 Mercedes 4 cylinder 2 liter Diesel had two small turbos to help with Turbo lag. That little 2 liter Diesel diesel had 208HP @ 369 Lb/Ft. and returned over 40 MPG. It had a max output of 104HP/184Lb/Ft per liter to our M11's 40HP/131Lb/Ft per liter. Pretty impressive little diesel that Mercedes had. That's like our M11 having 1144HP@ 2024Lb/Ft torque. It would be death to the Allison transmission.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #32 – July 02, 2019, 06:26:17 pm

I just put the Jones big one on...problem is I did two things at once...I discovered the Economy mode on the trans..so I do the exhaust and love the sound..yeah it's beefy..but it is nice...now this is my performance gains I think I feel...I now drive in E mode..and this last 300 mile round trip..I set cruise at 65 and it held it's speed uphill better...now I'm confused...was it E mode or exhaust upgrade. It might be both..it just seems to pull better. It seems that before it would fall quickly to 60 then 55..but now 65 all the way up...

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #33 – July 02, 2019, 06:42:37 pm

Mike, Just put it back in the performance mode and use the ole butt dyno to compare with the old muffler. Post up some videos with sound.

And for those about to change. Perhaps some before/after videos. You tube has proven useless for comparisons.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #34 – July 02, 2019, 08:22:26 pm

Slash cut exhaust tip will reduce velocity pressure losses also due to exit area sqaure inches that's why the big rigs have a slash tip or slashed elbow. If you look at your exhaust cfm flow on the Donaldson site engine charts. At full load hp you may have a 300 mph leaf blower eating up 3+ hp based on velocity pressure alone, let alone the lousy fitting coefficient of a straight abrupt exit.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #35 – July 02, 2019, 11:14:17 pm

I just found the Ft. Knox of muffler information with cut aways, dozens of photos, etc. Everyone owns me a beer for this one and no cheap stuff.

Techtips - Exhaust Systems: Mufflers and Catalytic Converter Guide

Pierce

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #36 – July 03, 2019, 08:42:37 am

Thanks, Pierce. Nice primer on muffler types.

Brings back good memories of playing around with various mufflers on old cars.

I had a 1969 Camaro Z28 that was ordered from the factory with dual chambered exhaust pipes. No mufflers - just straight through dimpled pipes - and it was street legal. Produced a beautiful sound from the little 302 cu in engine. Was considered by many to be one of the best sounding factory exhaust systems of the day.

One thing to watch for when selecting resonators for your coach: check the I.D. of the inside tube. In some cases, the inside pipe is smaller than the connection stubs on the ends. If you are paying for a 5" in & out resonator, be sure it is 5" all the way through.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #37 – July 03, 2019, 09:21:32 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 02, 2019, 11:09:14 am

Naturally. You are compressing the air and feeding it to the intake so the exhaust has to spin the hot side of the turbo and it can't do that for free. Has to be a little back pressure created but it cuts a lot of the noise compared to a straight pipe.

Pierce

TANSTAAFL, or for you non Heinlein readers, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. But there is thermodynamics. Turbo chargers recover energy from the waste heat. Here's a picture showing the temperature difference between exhaust in and exhaust out of a turbosupercharger.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #38 – July 03, 2019, 10:07:02 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – July 03, 2019, 09:21:32 am

TANSTAAFL, or for you non Heinlein readers, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. But there is thermodynamics. Turbo chargers recover energy from the waste heat. Here's a picture showing the temperature difference between exhaust in and exhaust out of a turbosupercharger.

That's also why you install the EGT probe a maximum of 6 inches from an exhaust port. Otherwise, the reading will have to be corrected or it will give a false sense of security.

My 2-cycle articles have made me a stranger in a strange land so not that illustrated.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #39 – July 03, 2019, 11:06:14 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 03, 2019, 10:07:02 am

That's also why you install the EGT probe a maximum of 6 inches from an exhaust port. Otherwise, the reading will have to be corrected or it will give a false sense of security.

My 2-cycle articles have made me a stranger in a strange land so not that illustrated.

P

I'm glad I didn't know about Foretravel using the Detroit 2-strokes. I might have stretched the budget into purchasing something I can't afford, just so that I could live with one of those engines. I like the idea of a uniflow engine, not to mention recovering some of the waste energy with a turbo charger. And the sound! On the long road to the SIATA Spring, we passed on a V-12 Jaguar, once again because of the sound. We used to own a 1964 MK X, an all original car that I rebuilt the engine on after I finished the XK-120 for a friend. Beer is a gateway drug. "Art, you like projects. How would you like to put my XK-120 back together again?" "Oh, yeah, did I tell you I took it apart 12 years ago?" said Don Jesseman.

Don Jesseman playing the great room at Councilor Burton's home.

Don Jesseman on the Piano - YouTube

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #40 – July 04, 2019, 02:06:53 am

Excellent info in this thread

I'll add: Anything that creates a higher pressure differential across the turbine will improve performance. A less restrictive conduit after the turbine should improve performance since the pressure differential "seen" by the turbine will be greater; less work put into scavenging = more work available to spin the turbine. Improved power (within thermal/mechanical limitations), and BSF. This same principle can be applied anywhere from the point of air intake to exhaust exit. Hope I never have to do a valve job on our ISM but if I ever do, it's going on my flow bench for some tweaks.

Greg

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #41 – July 04, 2019, 02:33:42 am

Quote from: MisterEd – July 04, 2019, 02:06:53 am

Hope I never have to do a valve job on our ISM but if I ever do, it's going on my flow bench for some tweaks.

I hope you have sturdy bench if that ever comes to pass.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #42 – July 04, 2019, 02:34:52 am

Like the ideas stated. I lessened intake restriction via a blue tech air filter, , adjusted valves, upgraded air pressure, reolaced bad cam postion replaced fuel lines, replaced Winn fuel filter, replaced alternator, added solar to kick off alternator loads, , changed cooling systems fan controller, added low friction tires, replaced suspension grease seals, synthetic oil in hubs. Aero 5050xl resonator beautifully installed with welded connections.

Now the increased upstream air flow can help the lesser back pressure spin up the turbine wheels.

Remove loads, increase air in. Let the air out better.

Nice ride now. Now finish electric issues, now finish steering box. Fixing that proactively. Leaks. Fix before failure

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #43 – July 04, 2019, 03:04:21 am

I ordered the Jones JT5050XL.... Now to decide If I want to try the install or find someone to do it... Thanks for all the input...

Keith

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #44 – July 04, 2019, 08:15:06 am

Great! Do not forget to update us on your thoughts of how it performs once you get it installed!

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #45 – July 04, 2019, 09:30:48 am

Quote from: bigdog – July 04, 2019, 02:33:42 am

I hope you have sturdy bench if that ever comes to pass.

LOL... would have to build a big bore adapter and outrigger support to do it. Nothing fancy like the Lucite commercial jobs; no reason to see inside for dry flow. Particle board with foam seals gets the job done well. The bench itself, a home-brew copy of a Superflow 300, will handle the weight, I think

+1 on the let us know how it performs. I may be doing this too. ...though I hate to pull the original muff...looks like it could easily go another 20 years.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #46 – July 04, 2019, 12:13:09 pm

Keith, I found the SS elbows on Ebay and bought the flex at a local autocrats store . Flex isn't stainless but I figured the original lasted 20 years the new piece would outlast me!

Chris

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #47 – July 04, 2019, 02:21:16 pm

Boosted engines respond poorly to the time of porting . If you have any sharp edges, clean them up, but the pressure gets the air inside well and the injection makes sure that all are fed the same .
If you want to go crazy, we have a flow bench , that I rent per hr.

Re: Current resonator opinions

Reply #48 – July 05, 2019, 01:50:49 am

Quote from: Protech Racing – July 04, 2019, 02:21:16 pm

Boosted engines respond poorly to the time of porting . If you have any sharp edges, clean them up, but the pressure gets the air inside well and the injection makes sure that all are fed the same .
If you want to go crazy, we have a flow bench , that I rent per hr.

Hey, Mike, assuming your response was directed at me, (flow bench) I agree that port improvements on a forced induction engine have lesser results, vs a naturally aspirated mill, and has to be done conservatively. My main goal would be to improve efficiency. ...smallish, quiet ports. No matter, it's unlikely I'll ever have a big six head on my bench, unless it was off the block for some other reason.

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