Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Topic: Weights. Towing vs GVWR. (Read 1145 times) previous topic - next topic

Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

July 20, 2019, 12:01:50 pm

Still having issues with my tow dolly. I'm going through a pair of tires (IMHO) rapidly.
Texas to New Orleans to St. Lewis and over to Atlanta and time for a new pair.
So here's the question(s)
1) is this typical wear?
2) I'm considering the alternatives of a four down road vs just replacing the dolly. This brings up towing capacity. Am I correct that total towing capacity is GVWR minus actual weight?
3) any ROUGH idea what my unit weighs? Yes. I know best to get on a scale but I'm looking for rough ideas now.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #1 – July 20, 2019, 12:05:25 pm

Towing capacity is the LESSER of:

Posted towing capacity.

GCWR (Gross COMBINED Weight Rating) less actual weight of loaded coach.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #2 – July 20, 2019, 12:08:54 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – July 20, 2019, 12:05:25 pm

Towing capacity is the LESSER of:

Posted towing capacity.

GCWR (Gross COMBINED Weight Rating) less actual weight of loaded coach.

Got it.
Mfgr. plate only lists GVRW.
Wait..... may have found something
Where do I find GCWR and/or posted towing capacity?
Searched with no love.
Wait....
May have found some thing

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #3 – July 20, 2019, 12:16:32 pm

Tow dolly tires should align just like trailer tires. 0 camber +_.5, toe in about 1/4+_ 1/8.
Total tow weight, combined weight, should be well inside of your Bus capacity IMHO the VW is about 3400,
The Stick VWs should be flat towable .
Many of us have towed loads that may be over the stated combine weight...
Some busses have none listed.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #4 – July 20, 2019, 12:25:20 pm

I don't think the U225 towing capacity is that high.

Perhaps someone with a 1993 U225 manual can look it up.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #5 – July 20, 2019, 12:26:55 pm

Quote from: Moby – July 20, 2019, 12:01:50 pm

Still having issues with my tow dolly. I'm going through a pair of tires (IMHO) rapidly.

What brand Dolly do you have? I have a Master Tow and have never worn through a set of tires of owning it for 13 years. Now I have of course replaced tires for old age and one or two road hazard issues. We have probably put 75K miles on this dolly towing a few different vehicles.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #6 – July 20, 2019, 12:58:56 pm

What type of tires are you using? I had a similar problem with new tires on a small cargo trailer. One trip from Louisiana to Colorado and back and they were shot. Thought I had a bent axle. Went to a different tire dealer and after looking at them he sold me a much better set of tires, which were only a few dollars more than the bad set cost, and I'm not having any problems with them.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #7 – July 20, 2019, 02:09:43 pm

A lot of the new cheap tires are made in China, same as a lot of the cheaper travel trailers, the tires are junk and probably should be considered dangerous.
They do not hold up to any loaded use.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #8 – July 20, 2019, 02:12:27 pm

1 New Nokian Entyre 2.0 - 245/45r18 Tires 2454518 245 45 18 | eBay
I use these on all of my trailers. Much better then trailer tires.

edit these are made in Russia. The harshest place in the World for tires.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #9 – July 20, 2019, 04:25:52 pm

My Kar Kaddy SS came with Carlisle "china bomb" trailer tires. I didn't realize what crappy tires they were until I blew one up at highway speed and destroyed the dolly fender on that side. After doing some (much overdue) research, I replaced them with Goodyear Endurance ST205/75-14 trailer tires. The Goodyears run at 65 psi instead of 55 psi, and have higher load ratings. Made in the USA. I feel much safer with better quality tires, and so far they have been trouble-free.

Goodyear Endurance Trailer Tire | Goodyear Tires

As to your U225 towing weight, you are in the same boat as me. Our manufacturer plate only lists the GVRW. I guess that's all that was required in 1993. Kinda leaves us in the dark concerning safe towing weights.

Beamalarm.com has a page of weights, and it shows both GVWR and GCWR for both our coaches. I don't know where the numbers came from, and I have never believed them (at least for my coach). You can, however, decide for yerself:

Foretravel Vehicle Weight

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #10 – July 20, 2019, 04:42:33 pm

Chuck's link shows for the 1993 U225:

GCWR is 24,000 pounds
GVWR is 22,500 pounds

SO, if the coach is loaded to GVWR your towing capacity is 1,500 pounds.

If actual coach weight is 1,000 pounds under GVWR, your towing capacity is 2,500.

I do not believe the hitch rating will be a limiting factor.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #11 – July 20, 2019, 04:48:06 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – July 20, 2019, 04:42:33 pm

SO, if the coach is loaded to GVWR your towing capacity is 1,500 pounds.

Or, about the same tow rating as a Honda CRV.

Like I said - doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #12 – July 20, 2019, 05:09:30 pm

Smallest diesel engine used in a 36' Foretravel, smallest transmission.

It DOES make sense.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #13 – July 20, 2019, 05:20:49 pm

OK, then how about the 2000# rating on my '93 U280? Bigger engine, stronger tranny...and I only gain 500 pounds of tow capacity (over a U225)?

While at the same time the '93 U300 can safely tow 6000 pounds?

I'm just saying some of the numbers don't sound logical, and I question the validity of their source.

But that's just me, and I don't want to rock the boat, so I'll stop posting on this subject.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #14 – July 20, 2019, 05:45:13 pm

Chuck,

I do not have any "secret info" on towing capacity. But, the U225 was the "weakest drivetrain" in a 36' Foretravel DP.

Still a great coach, but it does/should have the lowest towing capacity of all diesel Foretravels:
Smallest engine
Smallest transmission
Rear radiator
Wedge drum brakes

BIG difference from the U280. So, suspect if anything it is the U280 towing capacity that is "understated".

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #15 – July 21, 2019, 12:09:16 am

If I remember correctly. One of the major factors in tow ratings is the ability of the tow vehicle to stop and wheel base. But agree that the numbers do seem odd. My 36' 1998 U320 has a heck of a strong engine, Transmission and big braking capacity with air disc's and trans retarder. My max tow capacity with an empty coach is 6K.

So then if I have a full tank of fuel, 194 Gallons = 1,377 lbs
Fresh water tank can hold a total of 102 Gal = 851 Lbs
Bam! There goes 2228 Lbs of the 6,000 Lbs of towing. Then subtract all the crap one loads into & under the coach and it's a wonder that one is even allowed to install a hitch at all. The remaining towing capacity is only about the same as my old 2 liter diesel Mercedes that was rated to tow 3,500 Lbs. Fortunately my Subaru is right at 3,000 Lbs.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #16 – July 21, 2019, 12:28:08 am

My 99 had a GVWR of 34800 lb, which is max weight of coach loaded up, and max axle load. But GCWR was 44800 lbs which means I could tow 10000 lbs even if coach maxed out. Same with my 03. Unless you are overweight, don't think your coach weight, [unless overloaded] has anything to do with your towing capacity. Think Foretravel assumed your coach would be maxed out, and looked at chassis ability to control the toad, and set tow weights accordingly.

1999 Foretravel U320 Specifications
2003 Foretravel U320 Specifications

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #17 – July 21, 2019, 01:23:48 am

Quote from: jcus – July 21, 2019, 12:28:08 am

My 99 had a GVWR of 34800 lb, which is max weight of coach loaded up, and max axle load. But GCWR was 44800 lbs which means I could tow 10000 lbs even if coach maxed out. Same with my 03. Unless you are overweight, don't think your coach weight, [unless overloaded] has anything to do with your towing capacity. Think Foretravel assumed your coach would be maxed out, and looked at chassis ability to control the toad, and set tow weights accordingly.

1999 Foretravel U320 Specifications
2003 Foretravel U320 Specifications

And that's why I think something isn't correct. My 1998 36' U320 is exactly the same as a 1999 36' U320. Same engine, brakes, axles. everything. But my listed GVWR is 32,250 and a GCWR of 38,000 which is only a 5600 lb tow load with a maxed out coach weight. Where did the other 6800 lbs come from on a 1999?

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #18 – July 21, 2019, 01:39:30 am

Look up combine weight for the old Oshkosh/Freightliner with 3208 and 5 in drums ,and its near 40K lastime I found it. Thus I disregarded the GVW listed for mine. I estimate my common combine weight to be 30K. With good trailer brakes .

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #19 – July 21, 2019, 01:41:07 am

Quote from: bigdog – July 21, 2019, 01:23:48 am

And that's why I think something isn't correct. My 1998 36' U320 is exactly the same as a 1999 36' U320. Same engine, brakes, axles. everything. But my listed GVWR is 32,250 and a GCWR of 38,000 which is only a 5600 lb tow load with a maxed out coach weight. Where did the other 6800 lbs come from on a 1999?

Maybe FT beefed up the rear engine cradle and tow hitch assembly? Agree with you. It is strange.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #20 – July 21, 2019, 08:21:06 am

How are your tow dolly tires wearing? If they have edge or cupping wear it's time to check wheel bearings, bent axle/axle ends, and axle mounting hardware. Pot holes and curbs are not nice to axles.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #21 – July 21, 2019, 10:46:24 am

Quote from: bbeane – July 21, 2019, 08:21:06 am

How are your tow dolly tires wearing? If they have edge or cupping wear it's time to check wheel bearings, bent axle/axle ends, and axle mounting hardware. Pot holes and curbs are not nice to axles.

All the way across. Almost rounded over.
Running 32#, and saw a comment that others were running higher pressures. May try that.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #22 – July 21, 2019, 11:03:57 am

There should be a "MAX LOAD" (cold) inflation pressure on the sidewall of the tire. That is what you should run. Lower pressure equals a hotter running tire, and heat is a trailer tire killer.

Re: Weights. Towing vs GVWR.

Reply #23 – July 25, 2019, 08:21:29 am

I gave up on trailer tires years ago. I only run passenger tires, even on my little Kendon motorcycle trailer. And make sure to have the tires balanced. Many tire shop don't think to balance trailer tires. You can't know what is happening to tires on towed.

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