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Topic: Compressor going on and off! (Read 1961 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #25
Juicesqueezers, do you have the air schematic?

The dash gauges show the front and rear brake tanks. Not the wet tank nor the slide seal tank. You need a gauge near the aux compressor to see whats happening at the s/o tank.

Unfortunately no!  Am going to contact Ronnie and see if I can get a schematic sent to me via email!
Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #26
Here is another thought about this rapid compressor cycling.

After looking at a generic air schematic for a 2000 (not the one for his exact coach) it shows a ball check valve just past the pressure switch. If this check valve has failed and is stuck closed it could be slowly bleeding through causing the pressure switch to see a need to come on. When the piping between the 2 is up to pressure the pressure switch is satisfied and shuts the compressor down.

Mike

Mike, if you look at the photos I posted at the begining, see if that brass rectangular block is the valve?  That just might be it.  When the compressor calls for air, if the valve is shut, it senses the air tank is full and shuts off.  That is what it seems to be doing.  If there is no air in the tank and I insert the fuse to start the compressor, it kicks on and then back off almost immediately.  If there is air on the gauges and it get to 70 lbs., then the pressure switch calls for air and if it senses the tank is full, it shuts back down.  Like Ronnie mentioned, he spoke with those in the service area about this and that is all they could come up with as a stuck check valve.  Please let me know what you see in those photos with regards to a check valve.

Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #27
I feel a sense of frustration when I read threads like this.  You have a simple problem: your air compressor runs at the wrong times or shuts off at the wrong time.  It is cycling on/off rapidly.  Why?  It should be fairly easy to solve this problem with simple trouble shooting skills.

Step 1:  What powers your air compressor?  You know the answer to this because you have removed the fuse from the power wire.

Step 2:  What tells the compressor to turn ON and OFF?  You already know the answer to this because you have taken the cover off the pressure switch and pointed it out in your photos in Reply #10.

Step 3:  If compressor is getting power (YES) but is turning ON or OFF at wrong times/pressures, what causes this?  Answer: the pressure switch.

Step 4:  How best to solve the problem?  Answer: replace the pressure switch.

Discussion.  The pressure switch is similar to the ones you will find on many air compressors, and also on water well pump controls.  It employs a diaphragm to sense pressure, and spring loaded contact points that open and close to control power to a motor.  One common problem is that the contact points will get dirty or eroded, and will not maintain the proper gap.  Bad/dirty/corroded points can cause the switch to act erratically.  If this IS the problem, you can "dress" the points (clean them up) with a "points file" and possibly restore proper operation...temporarily.

Another possible problem is the diaphragm can develop a tiny leak, causing erratic switch operation.

Another possible problem is the port into which the switch is installed can get plugged up with junk, causing erratic switch operation.

Occasionally, the switch operation can be restored by screwing the adjustment nut (on top of the big spring) in or out a bit.  This nut is normally used to raise or lower the "kick in" and "kick out" settings on the switch.  You could try messing with it to see if it makes any worthwhile change in your compressor's operation, but it probably won't help.

Once again: the SIMPLE solution is replace the pressure switch.

Once your compressor is back to operating at correct times and pressures, THEN you can go hunting for air leaks.

Your steps make perfect sense.  I don't know if there is a special pressure switch for these or not, but getting it off will not be fun, as it is up against the ceiling for the bay.  Looks like I will need to drop the compressor down or part of it to remove the switch. 
If anyone has the part number for this switch, I would appreciate you post it.  I may try the file first as well.
I know that Roger suggested the pressure switch as well in a previous comment. 
Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #28
If anyone has the part number for this switch, I would appreciate you post it.
I know that Roger suggested the pressure switch as well in a previous comment.
The HWH part number for the pressure switch is RAP90159.  But that won't help you if you can't cross it to another part number.

The Forum to the rescue!  As is often the case, you are not the first member looking for a pressure switch.  See link below (Reply #9 and #10):

Aux 12 volt compressor compartment "thumping" sound (actually air unloader)
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #29
if you look at the photos I posted at the begining, see if that brass rectangular block is the valve?  That just might be it. 

Joe,

I have been looking at both your pics. and the generic prints for your year coach that I have. The first thing I see is some of the stuff in the pics. must be for an air operated awning.  According to what I can see in the prints that I have you must have a check valve either in that square block or in one of the fittings that are screwed into that block. This is the piece that has the drain valve, air lines, and pressure switch connected to it.

One other thing that you have mentioned in an earlier post is that before this problem of rapid cycling that little compressor would air up your main tanks. You stated that this was visible on the dash gages. This leads to your 2nd problem in that you have a isolation valve that is leaking from your seal air tank back into the front dry air tank. Do you have an air tank switch on your console?  If so the valve that is connected to that switch is what is leaking through charging your main dry air tanks. That little compressor isn't designed for such service and can cause it to fail prematurely.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #30
Another thing, before filing the contacts in the pressure switch be sure there is no power going to the contacts.
Jerry & Nanci
1999 U270 34'WTFI
2011 Malibu
A smart man knows what to say, a wise man knows when to say it.

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #31
Joe,

I have been looking at both your pics. and the generic prints for your year coach that I have. The first thing I see is some of the stuff in the pics. must be for an air operated awning.  According to what I can see in the prints that I have you must have a check valve either in that square block or in one of the fittings that are screwed into that block. This is the piece that has the drain valve, air lines, and pressure switch connected to it.

One other thing that you have mentioned in an earlier post is that before this problem of rapid cycling that little compressor would air up your main tanks. You stated that this was visible on the dash gages. This leads to your 2nd problem in that you have a isolation valve that is leaking from your seal air tank back into the front dry air tank. Do you have an air tank switch on your console?  If so the valve that is connected to that switch is what is leaking through charging your main dry air tanks. That little compressor isn't designed for such service and can cause it to fail prematurely.

Mike

Mike, I don't have a switch on the dash, but do have the air awning, which I believe I mentioned before, but if not, sorry!  The air line to awning is plugged off as the awning is inoperative.  I will trace those air lines as well. 
When I was at MOT to have some issues resolved after we purchased the coach, Derek who runs the show across the street was aware of the drop in air pressure that I was experiencing and got it narrowed down to a very slow leak, which took approximately 8 hours before the small compressor would come on.  They never said anything about a seal valve leaking, etc.
I am going to give Derek a call next week and see what he says and order a print out of our air system from FOT.
Thanks again for your expertise in this as well as others who have chimed in here and given me more information on this system.
Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #32
I am going to give Derek a call next week and see what he says and order a print out of our air system from FOT.

That will be a big help in troubleshooting your air system problems.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #33
Thanks Chuck and Jeannie for your clear explanation. My aux compressor hasn't worked in three years, but you have given me the impetus to try to fix it.
1997 U270 34FT Build 5140 Cummins 8.3 Allison 3060R
Solar 1920Watts, 14KWH lithium. Orion BMS.


Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #35
I understand your frustration....have spent a lot of time on my aux air system.

The post by Chuck may be right on. 

Just a couple of thoughts based on your scenario.

the air gauges on dash  reflect your front and rear air tanks....used for brakes and air bags when in motion...these gauges do not reflect pressure in the hwh leveling system aux tank

you said the air compressor runs very short cycles...does not sound correct operation....i put a air pressure gauge on the the aux system so i know the shutoff pressure when i need to troubleshoot the aux air system.....i adjusted the pressure switch to shutoff at 100 psi....system seemed to be working long and hard to boost pressure above 100 psi

if dash air gauges go up when the aux compressor run then suspect "air tank" switch on allowing air to go to front and rear air tanks....or....the check valve is leaking air from the aux system to the front/rear system

if you put an air pressure gauge on the aux system you can verify the shutoff pressure....if shutoff pressure is low then suspect pressure switch....if shutoff pressure is high and compressor still runs short cycles then suspect pressure switch(i.e. shutoff pressure is correct but pressure switch signals low pressure reached incorrectly....in this case you will see pressure gauge indicate high pressure shortly after compressor starts)....if shutoff pressure is correct and compressor runs long cycles( you can watch pressure gauge to see pressure build up) then suspect air leak
B4

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #36
Ok maybe I have this backwards... I always thought the front and rear air gauge was for ride height? It is not? its for the brakes?

My front gauge stopped working after the rear axle seal replacement... next on the list to find the issue.. was thinking 6 pack but now I am not sure.. no work was done anywhere near the six pack.. :(

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #37
Ok maybe I have this backwards... I always thought the front and rear air gauge was for ride height? It is not? its for the brakes?

My front gauge stopped working after the rear axle seal replacement... next on the list to find the issue.. was thinking 6 pack but now I am not sure.. no work was done anywhere near the six pack.. :(
David, I believe you have the "box" that electronically transmits to the gauge and has been problematic in the past. And the air gauges are showing the pressure for the 2 air brake systems.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #38
Mine calls for a 5amp fuse.  20 amp seems kinda' stout.

You are correct, it is a 5 amp fuse on mine as well. 
Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #39
Ok maybe I have this backwards... I always thought the front and rear air gauge was for ride height? It is not? its for the brakes?

David,

The front and rear gauges are for the front and rear dry air tanks, they don't just read for the HWH ride height.  They are storage tanks that serve the brakes and all aux. air operated stuff like retarder, horn, HWH, and step cover.

Your 02 should have the magic box like Cman mentioned that converts air pressure to an electronic signal and sends that signal to the electronic gauge.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #40
Sorry for no updates on my compressor issues lately, but have just been removing the fuse for the time being.  Coach airs up fine and no issues going down the road with regards to brakes, etc.  Ride height has been working and leveling works fine.  Bladder for slide seal is okay as well.  We will be in Florida in November and part of December and will be having the air awning removed and replaced with the manual zip dee!  We are then heading up to see kids in TN and then make our way over to Moscow, IA and HWH to check out this system before we head down to Q.  Hope we don't freeze to death before then!  lol
A huge thank you to all who have responded and sent PM's.  At least right now, we are not listening to the compressor kicking on and off and the rest of the air system seems to work fine.
We also have a thermo disc coming in on Friday for the high limit on the diesel side of the Aqua Hot.  It quit!  Thank you Rudy for your expertise and link for the part.  I will try and post some photos of the thermo discs and my contortions inside of that bay.  I am glad I'm not taller than 6 foot!  lol
Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #41
David,

The front and rear gauges are for the front and rear dry air tanks, they don't just read for the HWH ride height.  They are storage tanks that serve the brakes and all aux. air operated stuff like retarder, horn, HWH, and step cover.

Your 02 should have the magic box like Cman mentioned that converts air pressure to an electronic signal and sends that signal to the electronic gauge.

Mike
I will start another topic.. already muddled this one.. thanks guys

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #42
The compressor is isolated from everywhere it sends air by check valves.  The pressure control switch is between those check valves and and another check valve between the pressure control switch and the end of the filters and dryers.  So if the check valves are working and the switch keeps coming on and calling for air then there is a leak between check valves.

The HWH system can also send a signal that will close the Essex relay and turn on the pump.  The dash switch to open the relay to supply air to the wet tank will also send a signal to start the pump. 
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Compressor going on and off!

Reply #43
great thread here.    if anyone is willing to help and talk with me i'd greatly appreciate it.  i just need to make sure my bladders are working.    they have been working fine but i think we have a similar problem as this thread but i'm a newb too so could be something easier to try
Jim Choate