Batteries

Topic: Batteries (Read 3171 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Batteries

Reply #25 – October 23, 2019, 11:54:32 am

If just one of the Optimas is bad, just disconnecting that one might be a temporary fix. It worked for me, but my ISL400 is a smaller engine than yours.

Re: Batteries

Reply #26 – October 23, 2019, 05:22:54 pm

Quote from: craneman – October 23, 2019, 10:17:22 am

If you don't have an alternator on the generator, you will have to tie in the house batteries to charge the generator battery. Will need either a big diode or a cutoff switch otherwise the generator battery will go down with the house batteries.

Craneman,
On my last installation I had a dedicated charger for the dedicated generator battery. That way I have three independent systems, chassis, house and generator. With the exception of the boost solenoid for the chassis battery from the house. And a boost solenoid from the house to the generator. In the attached photo the shiny button in the upper right corner is the boost button.

But thanks for the reminder.

Re: Batteries

Reply #27 – October 23, 2019, 10:36:53 pm

Yeah one Optima battery is bad. Of course it's the last one. Got them out and that battery was hot and leaking from a top port. Got one on the charger now and when that one is full will charge the other one then see what the voltages do.
Probably will go with some cheaper start batteries for now. Time to change the lugs too.

Re: Batteries

Reply #28 – October 23, 2019, 11:34:05 pm

Rotation of the batteries will help equalize the wear.

Re: Batteries

Reply #29 – October 24, 2019, 03:02:03 am

I had two previous rvs with an 8d starting battery, I would never go back to that after haveing my current two grp 34 batteries. These are an improvement. 1350 cca for a single Lifeline, 1380 combined cca for my two Exides.

A single Lifeline 8D has 1350 cold cranking amps. Three of my grp 34s (690 cca each) would have 2070 cca combined.

These were my after and before pictures 2 yrs ago. The FT came to me with two wet Grp 34 Interstates that I replaced along with installing a ground disconnect.

The two Exide Edge Grp 34 AGMs have been perfect, they now are marketed under the name Exide Marathon Max. They have 48 month free replacement and 84 month pro rated warranty, priced at approx $180 each.

They have continued to hold almost a full charge each year, with disconnect off, for over a six month continuous storage period.

Security Check is Car ID, retailer for these batteries.
Security Check

Exide website.
Marathon Max Automotive AGM Battery

Re: Batteries

Reply #30 – October 24, 2019, 03:01:36 pm

So thanks for all the ideas on battery selection, and sorry for hijacking the thread.
Confirmed that one Optima is bad. The other 2 are charged and will see how they hold it over time.
As I understand it, in a multi battery setup, one should not replace one battery, but the entire bank.
These Optima's are only 3 years old. Seems a waste to do that.
They are 800 CCA, so 2 might not do it, although I don't plan to be in the cold weather with this coach for a year or two.

The other issue is Foretravel built this battery tray for this specific battery. The Optima yellow tops for instance wouldn't work.
The measurements of the inside of the tray is 10.5"W X 20.5" D. I guess I could have someone weld me a new tray, but don't want to go to that expense if I don't have to. Might just build a try out of wood and screw it to the existing tray, then epoxy it for weather protection.
What have you guys that have put other batteries in do?

What do you think about just adding another Red top to these batteries?
Thanks,
Bob

Re: Batteries

Reply #31 – October 24, 2019, 03:06:57 pm

I would replace all 3, If I understand it wright , the old batteries will pull the new battery down and you would still have to replace all it them. Personally I am looking at putting in a 8D when I have to do a replacement. I'm sure others will Chime in !!!
Chris

Re: Batteries

Reply #32 – October 24, 2019, 04:09:58 pm

Installing a good quality 8D is still going to only give you 1400 CCA and cost a little over $200 (Autozone/Duralast). So, not enough CCA for your Cummins. For an 8.3, you should have around 1800 CCA for reliable starting in winter. Installing two brings the CCA up to 2800 but still slightly less than three 31 series from Autozone and for the price of over $400 compared to the three 31 series for about $300. Plus, while the 31 series batteries are heavy, one person can easily make the installation while the 8Ds are back breakers. Two 31 series @ 950 CCA would probably do the trick nicely and that is only $200 for an 8.3 or $300 for the additional battery for a M11.

Don't fool with wood, have someone weld up a steel tray. The batteries will be secure and can't come loose in case of an accident.

If one in a set of three batteries is bad, replace all and repurpose the other two. $300 for three batteries? How can you not not replace them. My old Duralast 34 series lasted eleven years with two still good. Thats only $27/year. Make sure to get at least a 10 percent discount if buying three batteries.

Pierce

Re: Batteries

Reply #33 – October 24, 2019, 07:29:00 pm

When one of my three Optimas went bad after five years, I removed it and ran with two for a few months. Then I added a third Optima that I had been using elsewhere, and my mismatched set served me well for another six years.

This is on an ISL400

Re: Batteries

Reply #34 – October 24, 2019, 08:53:58 pm

I do have just ONE battery bank, three 8D AGM batteries which provides house power and starting power. I have used this for 8 years on my 96 U320, and used it on my previous coach for 7 years. I have had to boost with my towd twice, both times because I left the refer on electric over night. I have 1450 watts of solar which can provided 78 amps for battery charging. This works very well for me but I would caution others that you have to continuously watch the charge level of your battery bank. I have an amphour meter on each battery and use desulfators on each battery.

My Cummins manual recommends 1800 CCA for an M11. Three charged 8D AGM batteries can provide over 3000 CCA and they spin the M11 faster than the three "red top" Optima batteries which came with the coach did (unknown age).

Contact me if you need more information, or are thinking about making the change from two battery banks to one.

Re: Batteries

Reply #35 – October 24, 2019, 09:19:51 pm

Pierce I looked at AutoZone and the high cca batteries were not available at that price. The only ones online were 190$ and for that price might as well get the optima's. The batteries Roger has are available, but if 2 of the red tops are still good, not sure I want to pay more $ for less.
Still evaluating the optima's. But if they are still good, will stay with that config.
My boost switch doesn't work and I think AM Solar did that when they did the lithium install.

Re: Batteries

Reply #36 – October 24, 2019, 09:33:26 pm

Took me ten second to find this; https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/battery/duralast-battery-31-950-group-size-31-950-cca/97512_766202_25698 $129 now but 10 percent drops it to $117.

Pierce

Re: Batteries

Reply #37 – October 24, 2019, 11:04:34 pm

The O'Reilly's group 31 batteries are a drop in fit to the existing battery rack and were $105 each with Diesel Power Club discount. They start my ISM11 easily. Warranty is not as long as an Optima but for the difference in price I can buy three sets of these for the price of Optimas. OEM on my coach were Optima Yellow Top group 31.

If you have two good optima's left keep them for something else instead of turning them in for a core charge. It make no sense to put in a new battery in with a pair of older batteries. It will just result in an imbalanced capacities, resistance and contribution to loads. I don't see a group 31 red top.

Re: Batteries

Reply #38 – October 25, 2019, 11:02:03 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – October 24, 2019, 09:33:26 pm

Took me ten second to find this; https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/battery/duralast-battery-31-950-group-size-31-950-cca/97512_766202_25698 $129 now but 10 percent drops it to $117.

Pierce

Pierce after I posted, I looked some more and found the same. Thanks for taking the time to search for it.
Roger, I signed up on the diesel forums and waiting for a email back. Not sure what I would use the redtops for. They won't fit in my jeep grand cherokee.
Thanks
Bob

Re: Batteries

Reply #39 – October 25, 2019, 12:45:33 pm

I have a 12v to 120v motor generator (2 12v motors) from ambulance manufacturing back in the 70's. Close enough to pure sine wave for use in them at the time. 2 red tops will run an electric chain saw for as long as you want to cut wood in a day. I have an original 2001 8D gel battery that when fully charged will last 2 days cutting wood. Chain saw uses about 1200 watts.

Keep them charged up for 12 volt power out lighting.
Get a small inverter to run your refrigerator for a day or so when power goes out.

If they are really good then keep them charged with a smart charger and use them. It is $18 for a great battery.

I have 6 used 8Ds in the garage, charged. With an inverter they will run our refrigerator, freezer, water pump and some lights for about 2 days in a power outage

Re: Batteries

Reply #40 – October 25, 2019, 12:55:34 pm

I received an email from "hotonthetrail" regrading replacing three Retop start batteries with one 8D and using the boost for starting. I was unable to replay perhaps because the return email contained "noreply".

Here is my reply:

One 8D will only provide circa 1100 CCA which is not sufficient for an M11 according to Cummins.
The problem is that the starter is almost a short and will draw more amps as voltage goes down. More amps means more heat. Low voltage will cause the starter to overheat. So, if the engine is cranking slow, stop and determine what is causing low voltage or risk starter damage.
One 8D start battery and using the boost will work provided that the house battery bank is well charged. If house battery bank has low charge it may actually lower the voltage to the starter when using the boost.
The other factor to consider is the amp capacity of the boost solenoid, the OEM solenoid is suspect for boosting the start battery.
I would buy three low cost start batteries which will fit the battery rack - AGM are not as essential for start as for house batteries because the start batteries are NOT cycled, ie remain fully charged most of the time. I believe the high cost for AGM start batteries is a waste of money. Maintenance free or Flooded start batteries are less expensive and will work just as good as AGM.

Re: Batteries

Reply #41 – October 30, 2019, 05:40:52 pm

Anytime I see a thread about batteries I jump in with a cent or two to add. Optimas, and in particular the Redtops, have been going downhill for years... or maybe it's just that overall AGM battery performance has been steadily increasing for years and what were once considered top of the line specs are now barely breaking mid-class.
Whatever the case, I recently replaced my own Optima Redtop (Grp 34/78) in my personal truck with a NorthStar Pro AGM (which is a NorthStar/Exide partnership), and I have to say that it's a pretty fantastic battery with excellent specs... full 4-year free replacement warranty, gold-plated top posts with M8 threaded inserts on the side as well, 1500 pulse cranking amps and 880 CCA, with 133-minute reserve (obviously this spec is highly debatable, but better than a Redtop's reserve rating regardless).
Given that I've only had it in the truck for a month, I can't give a long-term performance review, but my selection of this battery in particular was after a loooong period of spec comparison, research, and deep-diving into the review rabbit hole, so I do believe that any discussion of replacement combination start/reserve batteries should include this fine specimen.

Re: Batteries

Reply #42 – October 31, 2019, 12:55:21 pm

Justin,

May I ask for details on that personal truck you show?

Re: Batteries

Reply #43 – November 02, 2019, 12:29:33 am

After careful consideration of all of you, plus much research and old knowledge, I have decided to go with Odyssey batteries.
The model I purchased are pc2150t. 1150 CCA, 100 AH times 2. They won't fit in the tray as it is, so I got some angle steel to widen the tray by 3 inches width wise and will put the 2 batteries long way across the tray. I will use the same hold down bar. So total of 2300 CCA. These are great batteries and we will see how long they last. $799. Not to bad imo.
I looked at the lead acid, the agm, the 8D option. In the end I felt these were the best option. I have used Odyssey batteries before in my last boat. Seemed to be great batteries.
I was at Sams tonight, and looked at the others that people recommended and felt for me these would do best. Time will tell.
Thanks for everyone that helped in this decision.
Bob

Re: Batteries

Reply #44 – November 02, 2019, 03:57:30 pm

Excellent choice. Odyssey are the baþery of choice for all of BC govt busses and trucks.
Trying to get some of same from my brothers friend who is a dealer and has a few for free.
JohnH

Re: Batteries

Reply #45 – November 02, 2019, 04:24:51 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – October 22, 2019, 09:32:21 pm

I recently put in three Superstart AGM group 31 batteries from O'Reilly's. With my FMCA Diesel Power Club discount they were about about $105 each. They work great.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/fleet---heavy-duty-5000/battery-accessories-16452/battery---automotive-16864/battery---best-fit-16245/ec27e4e51018/super-start-fleet-heavy-duty-group-size-31-top-post-battery/agm31t/4742641

What did you do to your coach today VIII

They gave you over $100 off MSRP per battery!?! That sounds way too good to be true! I'll be digging into this as I'm in need of new start batteries.

Re: Batteries

Reply #46 – November 02, 2019, 06:13:18 pm

The list price was over $200 per battery. I do not know what they actually sell them for in the stores but it was $105 each out the door for me. The FMCA Diesel Power Club savings here and at MCD Shades has paid for more than 10 years of the cost. So far the Superstart batteries are living up to their name.

Re: Batteries

Reply #47 – November 19, 2019, 01:23:49 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – October 31, 2019, 12:55:21 pm

Justin,

May I ask for details on that personal truck you show?

Haha sure, I'm always happy to give details on my baby girl... she's a '91 Ranger STX, 4.0 V6 5-spd 4x4 with PosiTrac and the "HyRider" package (factory 1.5" lift), unknown miles (5-digit odometer). I picked her up in sad, sad shape almost two years ago and have spent countless hours on upgrades and body work and fun little details including K&N cold air intake, Taylor throttle body spacer, Taylor Racing wires, E3 plugs, Performance Distributors "Screamin Demon" ignition coil pack, Mishimoto radiator, GReddy oil/air separator, Mishimoto oil filler cap (yes, really :-P), Momo pedals, Mishimoto 559-gram shift knob, the NorthStar Pro AGM battery I originally posted, Victron Smart BatteryProtect 65A running my Alpena ModCubes DRLs, Alpena 4"x4" LED spotlights on the roll bar, Alpena 24" Slimline LED bar on the front, LED headlights, marker lights, taillights, turn signals, backup lights, and extra backup lights, Alpena LED bed lights, Alpena LED white undercarriage (ground effects) lights, interior music-sensitive color-changing LED lighting, Polk Audio component sound system...

(takes a breath)

...aaaand K&N fuel filter, K&N oil filter and Royal Purple oil every time, ventshades, PIAA wipers, full tint all the way around, refinished the wheels, 1.5" spacers on the rear wheels to bring the rear inline with the front, full bodywork to fix all the rust holes she had, just replaced the stock rear taillights with original-mold smoked acrylic lenses, dual functional scoops in the hood to ram air into that K&N, Gabriel suspension all the way around, replaced the stock mirrors with 93 Mustang foxbody mirrors (thinner profile), Brembo front disc brakes (haven't gotten around to the rear disc conversion yet)... man.... the list goes on.

Suffice to say, there isn't another 91 Ranger in existence quite like my Roxy :-) I love doing my own work; it's kind of my meditation.

Re: Batteries

Reply #48 – November 20, 2019, 05:43:21 am

A real labor of love!

Re: Batteries

Reply #49 – November 21, 2019, 12:18:55 am

Working on the new battery install today. The 2 batteries are 13.5 inches wide and long, so have to modify the existing battery tray to fit them. I choose to buy a mild steel angle iron and modify the tray. I took my grinder to it, cutting off the top part 13.5 inches out. I am bolting together the angle iron, after cutting it to size and drilling holes in it to fix it to the old tray. Most of the weight will still be on the old tray, but this will allow the entire battery assembly to fit. My first bolts were to proud, so off to the big box store for others. Should be done tomorrow. But I might make new battery cables.

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