Learning the the retarder useage

Topic: Learning the the retarder useage (Read 3157 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #50 – March 27, 2020, 10:32:35 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – March 27, 2020, 10:21:52 pm

Here's what I got out of this thread.

Disconnecting the brake light actuation when the retarder engages may stop the trans downshift command from being sent to the trans.

Not correct, my trans downshifts as normal when retarder is activated.

Everything functions the same, just the brake lights don't activate, which causes my toad brake to activate (really hard on toad brakes)

My trailer brake controller also doesn't activate when the retarder activates (which saves trailer brakes, when applied with every hiccup in the road).

Here is picture of the relay on mine. You can simply unplug it, and try it both ways, which I did.

Come up, I will take you for a ride

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #51 – March 27, 2020, 10:53:44 pm

Chris you have a 3060r trans. It's capacity may signal a downshift differently than my 4060r?

Then again it may not.

May require hooking and unhooking the same weight and model engine and trans to define this better.

The engine/trans/programming for your 3126 cat/3060r vs my m11/4060r might be different. Or the trans sensing function varies with the engines ability to self retard. Or specific programming?

A knowledgeable Allison Cummins man might know. May have to ask my dealers shop manager/owner coming up

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #52 – March 28, 2020, 12:17:34 am

My trans doesn't automatically shit down when I apply the retarder and my toad brakes only work off the brakes and I will have the
trailer brakes only come on when the brakes are applied. I will wire the trailer brake controller to the brake light switch and if there
is a feed back from the retarder I will put in a separate air switch for the trailer brake controller.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #53 – March 28, 2020, 03:23:53 am

Old guy, does your retarder work on cruise?

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #54 – March 28, 2020, 09:48:22 am

No, I have to manually operate the retarder and it will pull it out of cruise if the throttle is closed. I don't know if it could be set up
to operate on cruise, that would have to be done by an Allison teck.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #55 – March 28, 2020, 10:47:23 am

Is the retarder an Alison part

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #56 – March 28, 2020, 10:53:48 am

Quote from: dans96u295ft – March 28, 2020, 10:47:23 am

Is the retarder an Alison part

Yes. The "R" after your transmission model number signifies the Allison transmission retarder.

So, may be an Allison MD3060R, 3000R, etc

You will find a metal embossed tag on the driver's side of the transmission.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #57 – March 28, 2020, 01:31:23 pm

Quote from: oldguy – March 28, 2020, 12:17:34 am

My trans doesn't automatically shit down

Thankfully ours doesn't either.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #58 – March 28, 2020, 02:03:00 pm

One thing I might add. On early 97's, the joy stick was being installed mostly after market. I installed lots of them for customers at the FT dealer. Wasn't standard from factory unless ordered I think.

Our 97 is a June 1996 build date. It wasn't till I believe the next model year (98) that coaches came standard with the joy stick. Bob may know more then me about that, as he was in sales.

I would imagine ours was installed later, so wiring may be different then factory. This may be why some have brake lights activation, some don't.

I actually struggled with figuring out how to do what I did with the relay, there was just no wiring on my diagrams about how it was configured. Truth be told,I stumbled across the fix by accident.

The joy sticks at the dealer, came as a kit pre-wired from FT's factory. To remember which way the stick went, I burned into my mind "back for whoa, and froward for go" ! Stuck with me till today. Same as with air conditioning. Which hose is suction, which is pressure. "Big blue Bertha sucks"

Chris

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #59 – July 13, 2020, 08:44:52 am

Those that have installed the joystick themselves, can you tell me in specifics how you plugged in the y harness. What color was the connectors under the dash?
Sagre

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #60 – July 13, 2020, 10:59:40 am

I have the stick forward to stop. Lever is closer to my hand for its resting position. Retarder switch is next to it on the inside position

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #61 – July 13, 2020, 12:13:13 pm

Odd, my 1998 retarder works in concert with the cruise control. After a decent it just carries on.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #62 – July 13, 2020, 12:21:37 pm

Dan, to keep it simple. Just think of it like the throttle or the brake peddle. You can apply more or less while underway as needed. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Retarder not slowing you down enough? Then go from 2 to 3 or 4. What ever you need. On my 98 320. The retarder coming on does not deactivate the cruise. I suspect that the cruise/retarder interaction must be adjustable. As some say that their's does turn off.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #63 – July 13, 2020, 01:18:00 pm

Experimented pulling my 20 ft cargo with retarder. Moved to position 3 and noticed the tranny temp climb immediately . So. Tranny temp is what I'll drive by as others have told us

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #64 – July 13, 2020, 01:59:47 pm

Best advice I got when we bought our coach. Never failed during our trip at altitude out west. Thanks Brett.

When outside significant altitude I simply leave retarder on but rarely use joystick.

Quote from: wolfe10 – March 26, 2020, 05:03:54 pm

And, for those just learning to use the retarder, on those long downgrades, ALWAYS keep the engine RPM at the higher end of their approved RPM range.

This uses 0 fuel (throttle closed) and turns the water pump faster which keeps transmission temperature lower.

And, a little more digression for those new to the "sport". Each engine has several RPM numbers that you need to commit to memory (determine from your engine manufacturer for your engine serial number):

Peak torque RPM-- do not operate the engine under anything but light load below this RPM

HP RPM-- RPM at which max HP is generated

Governed RPM-- highest rated engine speed UNDER LOAD

Max no-load RPM-- in most cases higher than governed RPM and is the max safe RPM with throttle closed-- like with retarder on.

In general, I try to keep max RPM with throttle closed with retarder on between HP RPM and governed RPM, but if very steep long grade, you will do no damage going up to max no-load RPM. Said another way, on those long steep grades over-temp on service brakes or transmission temperature from retarder is less desirable than operating the engine at higher RPM.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #65 – July 13, 2020, 03:02:06 pm

Downshift. Watch rpm. Really watch retarder temperature. Get a vmsPC or blue fire to see retarder temps.

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #66 – July 13, 2020, 05:45:49 pm

When I first got my IH45 and I had the cruise on, it would shut off after a period of time. I was trying to figure out what was causing the cruise to disconnect and I was trying to pay attention to when it disconnected. I was thinking the brake light switch was bad, a loose wire and who knows what else I was thinking. Turned out the retard switch was on and joy stick was not all the way forward. When ever I would go down a hill where the cruise would let the coach coast the retard thought that it needed to brake and then disconnected the cruise.

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Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #50 – March 27, 2020, 10:32:35 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #51 – March 27, 2020, 10:53:44 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #52 – March 28, 2020, 12:17:34 am

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #53 – March 28, 2020, 03:23:53 am

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #54 – March 28, 2020, 09:48:22 am

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #55 – March 28, 2020, 10:47:23 am

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #56 – March 28, 2020, 10:53:48 am

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #57 – March 28, 2020, 01:31:23 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #58 – March 28, 2020, 02:03:00 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #59 – July 13, 2020, 08:44:52 am

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #60 – July 13, 2020, 10:59:40 am

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #61 – July 13, 2020, 12:13:13 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #62 – July 13, 2020, 12:21:37 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #63 – July 13, 2020, 01:18:00 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #64 – July 13, 2020, 01:59:47 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #65 – July 13, 2020, 03:02:06 pm

Re: Learning the the retarder useage

Reply #66 – July 13, 2020, 05:45:49 pm

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