Delamination Question

Topic: Delamination Question (Read 2186 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #50 – April 05, 2020, 10:27:56 am

Study the link I posted just above. It shows what the structure looks like and what would need to be replaced if rust has rendered it structurally unsound.

Again, pull down the FG bottom until you get to clean, solid box beams. Then we can give you better information.

BTW, where are you located-- there may be someone nearby who can help you evaluate what is wrong and what needs to be done once the box beams are exposed?

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #51 – April 05, 2020, 10:29:20 am

Quote from: Kennyb – April 05, 2020, 10:25:59 am

I'm wondering if I can wait until June to do this repair because I will be in MI and have access to a pole barn (live in FL) but now I'm wondering if it's too dangerous to drive?

Until you open up the bottom to see the condition of the structure, none of us or you will know.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #52 – April 05, 2020, 10:39:34 am

I live on the Nature Coast. Just north of Crystal River in Inglis.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #53 – April 05, 2020, 10:55:54 am

It's a wonder what daylight can help you find. Looks like someone attempted a fix at some point which is why I didn't see any separation last night but as you.can see the side has a gap. Fronts are solid but I have to check the torque. Rear drivers side looks like it was bolted from both sides and filled with sealant.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #54 – April 05, 2020, 11:18:57 am

As Brett noted, you can't know for sure without getting the fiberglass out of the way but it doesn't look from your photos that you have much separation. One telltale is the rear compartment to fender line. When the bulkhead starts to fail and pulls apart you can see it in this line as it will no longer be parallel.
jor

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #55 – April 05, 2020, 11:38:42 am

Looks pretty straight to me.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #56 – April 05, 2020, 11:56:31 am

Can't really tell on the left one as it's open.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #57 – April 05, 2020, 12:51:11 pm

Yeah I am docked in an inconvenient spot. But it lines up when I close it and doors dont rub on each other.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #58 – April 05, 2020, 01:18:57 pm

Quote from: jor – April 05, 2020, 11:18:57 am

As Brett noted, you can't know for sure without getting the fiberglass out of the way but it doesn't look from your photos that you have much separation. One telltale is the rear compartment to fender line. When the bulkhead starts to fail and pulls apart you can see it in this line as it will no longer be parallel.
jor

I would like to just 'watch' it until June or July when I can drive it up to MI where there is a pole barn and welder to use. I would hate to pull the fiberglass and not be able to put it back up without going through a project when I'm just going to tear it all down in a few months.
I do believe most if not all of the delam is from the windows and I have resealed them on the outside until I can pop them out and replace the weather stripping properly. I had already planned on being in MI june and july to do that and fix the delam. Now I can do it all at the same time as long as I know I'm safe driving it.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #59 – April 05, 2020, 01:25:21 pm

Now that the pictures of more than just a delam blister have been posted I think it's difficult for anyone to say whether you're rig is safe to drive without seeing it in person. But others may disagree.

So for now, departure clearance cancelled, hold short of the runway.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #60 – April 05, 2020, 02:11:01 pm

Am I going to.have enough room without jacking it up.to drop the fiberglass enough to see? I dont have a pad to park it on currently.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #61 – April 05, 2020, 02:12:40 pm

Buy and cut some 2X12's sized to allow each side of the rear tire's footprint to be on the boards and drive the rear wheels up on two stacked= just under 4" more ground clearance.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #62 – April 05, 2020, 02:23:07 pm

JMHO, the bay door alignment doesn't necessarily indicate an issue with the bulkhead. Mine where out of alignment when I bought it 14 years ago. I have since drilled and bolted the bulkheads and had MOT inspect and do a minor repair On the rear 2 years ago. The only way to know for sure is to open the bottom up and look. The bottom line you need to get the coach where you can repair it.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #63 – April 05, 2020, 02:25:54 pm

In addition to putting it on blocks be sure and raise the coach up and put you safety stands in as well.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #64 – April 05, 2020, 02:39:09 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – April 05, 2020, 02:12:40 pm

Buy and cut some 2X12's sized to allow each side of the rear tire's footprint to be on the boards and drive the rear wheels up on two stacked= just under 4" more ground clearance.

With bags inflated?

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #65 – April 05, 2020, 02:49:57 pm

Quote from: Kennyb – April 05, 2020, 02:39:09 pm

With bags inflated?

You are driving the coach up on the boards= under the rear tires.

And a common safety stand, though a 1/2" or so longer than ideal: http://www.harborfreight.com/class-iii-12-in-x-2-in-standard-receiver-tube-69879.html

With a potential "weak rear" (no personal reflection) you will need 4 in the rear-- one inboard of each of the rear air bags.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #66 – April 05, 2020, 03:53:01 pm

Here are some pics today. Temp is 65 and cloudy. Musch less noticable on drivers side when the sun isnt out and its cooler. Either that or it's an optical illusion

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #67 – April 05, 2020, 04:09:39 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – April 05, 2020, 02:49:57 pm

You are driving the coach up on the boards= under the rear tires.

And a common safety stand, though a 1/2" or so longer than ideal: http://www.harborfreight.com/class-iii-12-in-x-2-in-standard-receiver-tube-69879.html

With a potential "weak rear" (no personal reflection) you will need 4 in the rear-- one inboard of each of the rear air bags.

I am assuming I can place these on some kind of flat piece of board? That link looks like a hitch extension bar? Again, I do not have a pad currently and the rig is parked on a gravel driveway...not level.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #68 – April 05, 2020, 04:33:15 pm

No, they are place inboard of the air bags between the upper and lower "H" frames. This, after using the air leveling to raise the rear to its highest position (engine running so you have air pressure).

You could also do a search here on the Foreforum for "safety stands".

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #69 – April 05, 2020, 04:55:49 pm

If you cut a 8" strip off in front of the angle iron ( only about 1/8" deep), the width of the coach, with a grinder, you should be able to peel the fiberglass off and get a good look. The fiberglass on the underside of the coach serves little purpose other than cosmetic and to protect the insulation. Removing a 8" strip will not effect anything if you leave it off and decide to drive to Michigan. You could buy a sheet of fiberglass at a home improvement store and cut it to fit the 8" gap, screw it in place with some caulking on each end.

From the look of the pictures my guess would be that the box beam(hidden under the fiberglass bottom) that attaches to the angle iron has rotted out. The lack of structure has transferred to the outside walls of the coach causing the side walls to buckle because they are not meant for structural support. I would guess that the rot under the coach is extensive. This is probably why the previous owner patched it like it is to hide the rot and sell it.
I would NOT attempt to drive the coach any significant distance until a full inspection of the FRONT and REAR bulkheads are examined. If the rear is rotted that bad I would also be suspicious of the front bulkhead.
If you jack up the front or the rear, where you put stress on the bulkhead joint, and it is compromised, you will see the gap widen at the angle iron joint.
The coach may have sat in high water for an extended period of time, saturating the insulation next to the box beam and causing the rust problem. This would translate to the entire box beam structure under the coach to be compromised.

I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #70 – April 05, 2020, 04:56:06 pm

Here's a photo of one installed on the front. If you make up the 2X12s as Brett suggested you should have plenty of room under there. Nice to have the rig raised up with the air but probably not necessary for your purpose.
jor

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #71 – April 05, 2020, 05:25:00 pm

Pretty typical of late 80s Foretravel to have the de-bonding issue of the sidewalls between steel frame and fiberglass skin. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the outside walls are being stressed from the bulkhead. My understanding is that the adhesive they used was not much more than your regular contact cement. My 89 U280 had similar issue with the sidewalls and the bulkheads were perfectly tight.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #72 – April 05, 2020, 05:32:58 pm

Most of our comments are NOT based on the pictures of the coach side, but pictures of the rear bulkhead and the real mess of patchwork of the FG underbody just forward of it.

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #73 – April 05, 2020, 06:31:23 pm

I offered to survey it earlier . Offer stands. Need some lead time for that space at the shop.
Currently have an old 35ft GM bus waiting for Gen set repair .

Re: Delamination Question

Reply #74 – April 05, 2020, 06:36:06 pm

Just thinking ... if the coach has a tag axels, it might be a very good idea to put 2x12s under those tires too to keep the air bags from bring over stretched.

Jim

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