275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Topic: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20 (Read 2048 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #25 – June 05, 2020, 11:14:39 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – June 05, 2020, 10:34:43 am

all things equal, wider tires stop faster as there is more "meat" on the road.

Your ML320 is not the same (braking wise) as a U320.

I would agree with your statement, but only if the "skinny" coach tires are skidding (locking up or breaking loose) during the braking maneuver.

If one never exceeds the traction capability of the "skinny" tires, then adding additional tread width gains you no braking advantage.

How many coach owners (especially Foretravel owners) ever use their brakes hard enough to make the front tires skid?

Happens very seldom I would guess. On icy roads, of course, it may be common. Extra width wouldn't help on ice.

The Foretravel owners blessed with retarders hardly ever use their brakes at all.

I'm just saying 1" extra width is not a critical factor in coach tire selection. Other factors much more important. My opinion.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #26 – June 05, 2020, 11:35:01 am

Quote from: dsd – June 05, 2020, 12:42:51 am

Wyatt. I was under the understanding that they were wider. I will look into them father Really looking for the best bang for the buck. Think with the higher single load rating would help to be a bit more conservative and allow possibly lower pressures. Still trending towards the M170. Any further input is greatly appreciated. Was swapping internal TPMS Sensors in my toad today and am actually thinking on installing The M170s myself. If done lots of tires up to 18 inch and the Utube makes them look within my means.. still really liked the Uniroyals RS20s off road rating, but the Tokyo's are at the top of my list. Thank you
Scott

If you are going to try to break down and reinstall the tires you will need some tools most people don't have. Besides these to break down the tires you will need jacks, and the tools to remove and install them.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #27 – June 05, 2020, 11:56:11 am

Chuck I agree, no autocross. But I will be driving down semi graded dirt roads every destination we go to. Sometimes for miles. Durability. Sidewall damage, flotation are genuine concerns of mine. This is not a offroad vehicle, but we will be towing a trailer, offroad vehicle, or Fat Fat toad. Will also need to drive across the states from Nevada to Michigan and North Carolina for Family several times a year.
Scott

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #28 – June 05, 2020, 11:57:00 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – June 05, 2020, 11:14:39 am

Your ML320 is not the same (braking wise) as a U320.
I would agree with your statement, but only if the "skinny" coach tires are skidding (locking up or breaking loose) during the braking maneuver.
If one never exceeds the traction capability of the "skinny" tires, then adding additional tread width gains you no braking advantage.
How many coach owners (especially Foretravel owners) ever use their brakes hard enough to make the front tires skid?
Happens very seldom I would guess. On icy roads, of course, it may be common. Extra width wouldn't help on ice.
The Foretravel owners blessed with retarders hardly ever use their brakes at all.

I'm just saying 1" extra width is not a critical factor in coach tire selection. Other factors much more important. My opinion.

No, not a critical factor but noise, ride, stability, resistance to cracking, reviews are all part of the selection process with price added in but not at the expense of safety.

Several elk came out of no where in Yellowstone. I lightly locked up all 6 in the U300. To me, the little extra width is just a little extra insurance and a little shorter stopping distance in an emergency. It's like insurance, 99.9% of the time you don't need it but when you do...

Naturally our ML320 is not the same braking as a U320. I was comparing the latest tire mounted on the SUV to other tires in the past. Before buying any tire for any vehicle, I read the reviews and after purchasing them, I was extremely happy with the tires before our emergency stop. The turn in is great, no noise, good ride, works well in the wet and good in the snow. Other tires in the past have picked up a rhythmic noise as the miles increased, sloppy handling, etc. so I was happy even before I had to make a quick stop. All tires for SUVs or RVs have their pluses and minuses so when I find one I like and it gives good service, I'm pleased.

So, considering our 295/75R22.5 Coopers for the U300, would I buy them again? Probably not. Love the size, ride, noise level but the little bit of sidewall checking and good but not outstanding handling could be better.

Also, just my opinion.

Pierce

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #29 – June 05, 2020, 12:00:26 pm

This is what I have. Sourcing two stage 12-14 ton jack
Scott

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #30 – June 05, 2020, 12:07:32 pm

Craneman. I've never broke down a (speculating) 12 year old 22.5. How difficult is the bead to break. I've changed drive tires on my 580D case
Worse case I cut the bead? Compleat unknown
Utube makes it look effortless. Expert broke down 8 in five minutes
Scott

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #31 – June 05, 2020, 12:13:44 pm

Pour a dish soap and water solution on the bead and use the slide hammer tool you have to break the beads. Make sure to put some carpeting over the flat area you are going to use to avoid scratches. Not that difficult. The new ones usually slide on without tools on the first side then tools to finish the other side.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #32 – June 05, 2020, 12:16:08 pm

Another factor to consider when speaking of tire traction and contact with the road is weight PSI. On any given vehicle when comparing wide tires verses "skinny" tires is the weight per square inch. Wider tires will have less weight per square inch than a narrower tire. True, wider tires give more floatation on soft surfaces but I don't necessarily believe they give you more traction on hard surfaces unless the wider tires are run with less air pressure and are "softer" as in a drag car.

Disclaimer:
I'm an electrician and not a mechanical engineer. 😎

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #33 – June 05, 2020, 12:19:54 pm

That's was my plan but will include vacuum pump to pull a low vacuum on tire to help beak bead if needed
New tires always go on easy. Seating them some times can be difficult, but I do have some tricks for that. Prepurchased truck large balance beads
Have never used them and looking forward to learning there not just snake oil. Actually put them in toad yesterday during TPMS sensor swap.
Scott

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #34 – June 05, 2020, 12:22:18 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – June 05, 2020, 12:16:08 pm

Another factor to consider when speaking of tire traction and contact with the road is weight PSI. On any given vehicle when comparing wide tires verses "skinny" tires is the weight per square inch. Wider tires will have less weight per square inch than a narrower tire. True, wider tires give more floatation on soft surfaces but I don't necessarily believe they give you more traction on hard surfaces unless the wider tires are run with less air pressure and are "softer" as in a drag car.

Disclaimer:
I'm an electrician and not a mechanical engineer. 😎

Surface area and friction are the main stopping and accelertating factors.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #35 – June 05, 2020, 12:24:54 pm

Justin yes more flotation means lower contact loading. That white stuff peaple drive on certainly does better with higher contact loads, I better stay away from that.
Scott

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #36 – June 05, 2020, 12:49:59 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – June 05, 2020, 12:16:08 pm

Disclaimer:
I'm an electrician and not a mechanical engineer. 😎

As a English major, I'm even less qualified than most to discuss engineering principles. One should always read my posts with due skepticism.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #37 – June 05, 2020, 01:12:49 pm

The high volume fmca tire dealer/shop in our area used an air driven hand tool with a wire wheel on it to clean the rim where the bead rests, bare metal.

The mounting grease contained no water. Water in lithium grease for example rusts the inner carcasses cord belt.

Use only dry air or dry nitrogen for the same reason, You may need to fill and let out the pressure several times to remove as much as possible of the humid air that was in the tire during assembly.

Not a truck. Less miles, more years, no water or water vapor in the tire.

Mylers makes a non water tire mounting lube. No soap.

No beads. Centrimatic tire balancers cannot block the stem.

This is REAL work as everything is heavy.

In filling the tire they use a longer hose for safety and the tire and rim are inserted into a ground mounted multiple thick steel bar circular cage and the tire tech moves away from the area while filling it.

No way I would try this at home,

High volume high pressure dry air is needed to seat the bead and fill the tire.

They deflated and refilled my set 3 times to lessen the water vapor in the tire,

All the tire failures I witnessed at my Foretravel store long ago had rusted to the point of failure tire carcasses.

This IS different from normal mounting.

These tires weigh 150? pounds each.

The shop used a rolling rig to slide the tire sideways I think to align it with the studs.

You will need a giant torque wrench to tighten the studs and a support for the extension needed.

If you use extensions they need supports(rubber pieces) that go into the rim that the extension goes through.

The coach produces dry air BTW. Just would take forever as the volume and pressure were not made to fill six tires

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #38 – June 05, 2020, 01:19:31 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – June 05, 2020, 01:12:49 pm

The high volume fmca tire dealer/shop in our area used an air driven hand tool with a wire wheel on it to clean the rim where the bead rests, bare metal.

The mounting grease contained no water. Water in lithium grease for example rusts the inner carcasses cord belt.

Use only dry air or dry nitrogen for the same reason, You may need to fill and let out the pressure several times to remove as much as possible of the humid air that was in the tire during assembly.

Not a truck. Less miles, more years, no water or water vapor in the tire.

Mylers makes a non water tire mounting lube. No soap.

No beads. Centrimatic tire balancers cannot block the stem.

This is REAL work as everything is heavy.

In filling the tire they use a longer hose for safety and the tire and rim are inserted into a ground mounted multiple thick steel bar circular cage and the tire tech moves away from the area while filling it.

No way I would try this at home,

High volume high pressure dry air is needed to seat the bead and fill the tire.

They deflated and refilled my set 3 times to lessen the water vapor in the tire,

All the tire failures I witnessed at my Foretravel store long ago had rusted to the point of failure tire carcasses.

This IS different from normal mounting.

These tires weigh 150? pounds each.

The shop used a rolling rig to slide the tire sideways I think to align it with the studs.

You will need a giant torque wrench to tighten the studs and a support for the extension needed.

If you use extensions they need supports(rubber pieces) that go into the rim that the extension goes through.

The coach produces dry air BTW. Just would take forever as the volume and pressure were not made to fill six tires

you mean these tools?

tools to R&R wheels

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #39 – June 05, 2020, 01:54:14 pm

Yes. Plus this

Workhorse Safety Series - 5-150 psi Digital Tire Inflator w/ 6' Hose W

Plus they did not drop the top tires off of the tire stack. They used another tire to "roll" the tires off the stack.

Too dangerous and physically hard to drop the tire off unguided.

Two guys did the unstacking..

No water anywhere is best.

Power tank sells co2 tanks as the storage is liquid not gas and can fill the tires easier.

CO2 does go though the carcass faster although

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #40 – June 05, 2020, 02:12:44 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – June 05, 2020, 12:16:08 pm

Another factor to consider when speaking of tire traction and contact with the road is weight PSI. On any given vehicle when comparing wide tires verses "skinny" tires is the weight per square inch. Wider tires will have less weight per square inch than a narrower tire. True, wider tires give more flotation on soft surfaces but I don't necessarily believe they give you more traction on hard surfaces unless the wider tires are run with less air pressure and are "softer" as in a drag car.
Disclaimer:
I'm an electrician and not a mechanical engineer. 😎

Regardless of weight, the wider the tire, the shorter distance it takes to stop. The lower profile the tire is, the more stable it is in stopping and handling. Look at the width of tires on high performance cars today. I have several thousand laps in race cars under my belt. My tires were as wide as the regulations allowed as were everyone else's. The tire pressures were different for each tire and track as well as weight on each corner. On oval tracks, only the front left tire had a significantly lower pressures. At the end of every straight away, it's a max brake effort until the brakes overheat.

In sports car racing, the fastest manufacture from the year before gets a weight penalty to make racing more competitive. Added weight means longer braking distances, slower acceleration and slower corner speeds. Only a little bit but it's there.

So, the lighter a car, the shorter distance it takes to stop with the same tires, The wider the tire, the faster it stops with the same weight.

And contrary to old school opinion, the lighter the car, the better it rides with today's progressive shocks and springs engineered for that specific car.

Pierce

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #41 – June 05, 2020, 02:22:33 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – June 05, 2020, 02:12:44 pm

Regardless of weight, the wider the tire, the shorter distance it takes to stop.
Pierce

True, IF (yes big IF) tires are the "weak link"

But, it would surprise me if the brakes on a heavy coach are sufficiently strong to actually lock up the wheels/tires except on slick surfaces.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #42 – June 05, 2020, 02:24:33 pm

In my early rv days I tried to lock up coach tires. As Brett said very difficult. Snow or rain yes.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #43 – June 05, 2020, 02:27:40 pm

If you have an old carpet or blanket, place the tire on it. If you can't break the bead with a slide hammer, etc. drive slowly up on the tire so the tire of your vehicle just misses the wheel. If the wheel is visible where it has been pressed down but won't come off, I spray something like Armor All on the rubber. I then rotate the tire a bit and repeat the effort. If you have a tractor with a front loader, rotating the bucket so the sharp edge is down and then using the blade to push down on the tire next to the wheel.

Pierce

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #44 – June 05, 2020, 02:37:20 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – June 05, 2020, 02:24:33 pm

In my early rv days I tried to lock up coach tires. As Brett said very difficult. Snow or rain yes.

Don't go by the pressure you have to use on the brake pedal. It's only a valve with a spring to simulate brake pressure. It has to feel like a car pedal or most drivers would have a problem applying the brakes. You can change treadel valves or replace the spring so full application does not take that much pressure.

With 125 psi and warm Meritor brakes, full brake application will lock up all tires on asphalt unless there is a problem with the slack adjusters, etc. Drivers are just reluctant to push down as hard as they can on the treadle valve. Cold Meritors don't make the first stop well.

At 36 feet, our coach is ligher than many plus we don't travel with full water, etc.

Pierce

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #45 – June 05, 2020, 02:50:14 pm

Pierce I used to have to yell at customers during unihome demo rides to "PUSH HARD ON THE BRAKES"

Impressive especially in a u300 with the retarder

Meritors are cold blooded. I tend to warm them up regularly during drives. Retarder off.

When warm i Tend to turn off the retarder but keep a hand free to turn the retarder switch on in stop and go freeway traffic.

Crazy folks in a hurry on so cal freeways sometimes.

In stop and go I do use the retarder on its 2nd position versus the brakes. Less work.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #46 – June 05, 2020, 03:12:19 pm

Have changed wheel assemblies countless times, Tires rated for 46,000 lbs. 42 inches tall, 36 ply, probably 20 inches wide. Service pressure 210 psi. But that being said have never broke down a 22.5. I have it set up too be done if it ends up being beyond my capacity. But I am tooling up to be able to change.
So how short must a jack be to clear the jack point with a flat tire? I searched history some but have not found. Was planning on a two stage Short bottle 14 ton. Worse case scenario would be better to have and never use. May need to be a three stage, hope not. They start getting real costly
Scott

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #47 – June 05, 2020, 03:44:48 pm

You will be jacking under the axles and there is plenty of room for an air jack from HF or any bottle jack. You don't need the 2 stage.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #48 – June 05, 2020, 04:37:19 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – June 05, 2020, 02:37:20 pm

Drivers are just reluctant to push down as hard as they can on the treadle valve.

That is true. In my case, it is because the DW does NOT appreciate everything in all her kitchen cabinets getting "rearranged".

I have learned that smooth, gentle stops go a long way towards keeping her (and our little dog) happy.

Happy Wife = Happy Life.

Re: 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20

Reply #49 – June 05, 2020, 06:41:03 pm

Quote from: dsd – June 05, 2020, 03:12:19 pm

Have changed wheel assemblies countless times, Tires rated for 46,000 lbs. 42 inches tall, 36 ply, probably 20 inches wide. Service pressure 210 psi. But that being said have never broke down a 22.5. I have it set up too be done if it ends up being beyond my capacity. But I am tooling up to be able to change.
So how short must a jack be to clear the jack point with a flat tire? I searched history some but have not found. Was planning on a two stage Short bottle 14 ton. Worse case scenario would be better to have and never use. May need to be a three stage, hope not. They start getting real costly
Scott

I bought our 20 ton air/hydraulic jacks for $59/each on sale. They are on sale all the time. The 12 ton would work fine but they were the same price online. They lift the coach like it was not even there with no work on your part. Below are a couple of photos of the jack in action. Loosen the lug nuts first, lift coach until the wheel is about 1/16" inch off the ground, remove all nuts and saw the tire back and forth until it clears the studs. Keep tire dead upright and roll it to where you want to work on it. Lower it a bit and release. It's nice to have a metal tool so the jack can't slip off of what the small end is on. Big end should be on concrete or something so it does not slip and come off. Use jack stands just to make sure.

Again, the air hydraulic jacks are really excellent. I made the little plate just in case and it makes it so I don't even have to look at it. The photos show the jack being used to change an air bag. You can see how far it lifts. Use coach air or a small compressor.

Pierce

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