King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Topic: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement? (Read 7359 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #25 – August 29, 2020, 11:38:03 am

Quote from: JohnBest – August 29, 2020, 11:04:04 am

Had my King control go up on way to Cocoa Fl. In early Jan. Found out King was out of business and no parts or service. Could not get any advice from Foretravel since they weren't aware of King Controls closing. Had an air pedal installed by trucking company in St Augustine. They said it would work fine. Not true. The Allison MD3060R doesn't know when to shift. Any suggestions?

Go back and check the linkages at/near the engine throttle. Sounds like the disconnected the transmission throttle position sensor.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #26 – August 29, 2020, 11:59:35 am

When I had my Monaco Dynasty the King Control went out and Steve fixed it and while it was away I ran a wire to a bracket I made
on the throttle pedal to the engine throttle which worked fine but the transmission didn't shift properly. The wire running down the
middle of the coach was a pain.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #27 – August 29, 2020, 12:15:20 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 29, 2020, 11:38:03 am

Go back and check the linkages at/near the engine throttle. Sounds like they disconnected the transmission throttle position sensor.

Where to check the above referenced linkage:

On my C8.3 the throttle position sensor is mounted on the passenger side frame next to engine. The TPS cable is connected to the fuel injection pump lever between the fuel shutoff solenoid and the throttle cable.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #28 – August 29, 2020, 08:36:12 pm

Chuck, I do not see your throttle position sensor on our coach with the same engine. We do have King throttle with a throttle pedal with an electric sensor.

Not sure where Allison picks up our throttle position, but it could pick up from throttle pedal sensor.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #29 – August 29, 2020, 09:25:29 pm

Since JohnBest now has a aftermarket air throttle, he may find himself in a tough situation. Going by what oldguy and Barry are reporting (above), engines originally fitted with the electronic King throttle may not utilize a mechanical throttle position sensor (like on my engine). If that is the case, then some other means of providing the required "throttle position" input to the transmission will be required.

Might perhaps require a visit to a qualified Allison transmission repair facility to see if they can suggest a solution?

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #30 – August 29, 2020, 09:35:58 pm

Here is a link to another thread concerning the mechanical throttle position sensor. It may or may not contain info of interest to JohnBest.

Allison MD3060R throttle position sensor location

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #31 – August 31, 2020, 06:39:57 am

Air Throttle

I keep things I stumble on. This may or may not be of use.
Mark

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #32 – September 01, 2020, 01:13:40 pm

Steve Boler, King Controls, confirmed the King Throttle System provides the TPS information to the Allison.
Steve indicates the attached drawing is mis-labeled as TPS and that device is actually a FILTER and the unit will work with or without the filter installed.
Now I know why, I could never find the TPS Device as others have installed on their coaches.
Hope this is helpful.
Safe travels to all.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #33 – September 01, 2020, 01:28:21 pm

So JohnBest (who we have not heard from since his post 3 days ago) had his King throttle replaced with a air throttle. Doing so eliminated the "throttle position" signal going to his Allison CPU. Now his tranny is "blind" and will not shift.

What are his options at this point?

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #34 – September 01, 2020, 03:18:08 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – September 01, 2020, 01:28:21 pm

So JohnBest (who we have not heard from since his post 3 days ago) had his King throttle replaced with a air throttle. Doing so eliminated the "throttle position" signal going to his Allison CPU. Now his tranny is "blind" and will not shift.

What are his options at this point?

It makes me wonder if there is a TPS inside control box in engine compartment that senses position of cable running to injector pump from King. If this is a discrete component it might be adaptable. If not feasible then probably retrofitting an Allison TPS will be called for.

lI'd probably be inclined to look at the possibilty of adapting an automotive style linear potentiometer TPS if one with right resistance values can be found.
I

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #35 – September 01, 2020, 04:05:53 pm

The Bendix cruise control setup on my coach uses a slave air cylinder with a potentiometer built into the end. The potentiometer reads the throttle cable position and supplies the signal required by the cruise control function. I wonder if something like that could be substituted for the generic cylinder used on JohnBest's aftermarket air throttle conversion kit?

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #36 – November 09, 2020, 07:16:32 pm

We decided to install the Rostra system 250-1223. We really had few options and thought this would be a worthy target. It is installed in my 1996 U295 with the 8.3 C Cummins mated to the Allison 3060R transmission. I had this done by a professional and am so glad I did. Here are the meaningful points. Keep in mind I am a geologist and have very limited skills/understanding.in this area.

1. We are the first RV to have one installed (we will learn whether it is a good thing or not). We had to involve Rostra engineering techs and Allison on a near daily basis. Seems the web designers and marketing geniuses are ahead of the engineering wizards. The sweet spot for this product has been with light trucks and autos. There is no HIGH IDLE FUNCTION and one was not engineered into this product. My high idle system is 5'1" and generally helpful in many ways.
2. We were able to tie it into the OEM wiring harness and add in wiring as necessary. We are using the multifunction switches built into the OEM turn signal light assembly. The product package came with a dash mounted switch if one chose to use it.
3. Added a magnet and sensor on the drive shaft, replaced a tach sensor in the top of the Allison (when we pulled it the magnet on the business end was about 1/32 in. The new one was more like 1/2 to 3/4 in. The tach signal strength improved lots.
4. The biggest challenge started when testing showed we could energize the system, could see the lights all light up as designed and - nothing. It was getting something, but couldn't or didn't react/engage. Rostra engineering started guiding test work and we determined the pulse and other signals being transmitted were outside the range engineered into the product for a car or light truck and would not result in an actionable data set for the device. The Rostra engineers were clueless about a diesel pusher with no computer.
5. Allison got involved and they would NOT give their equation for building the library of relationships (this was told to me in this manner probably to keep it simple). The techs went back and forth with them with all kinds of info requests like details of tire size in my vehicle, they had the tranny data, differential info, etc. They would crank their numbers and pass the data on to us then to Rostra. A wire here, a diode there, and pretty soon the VSS (?) unit started receiving data in English (haha) and came to life. Many test trips later and voila, we needed a Neutral Safety Switch to call it done.

I hope to have more experience test driving in December but right now it looks like "winner winner, chicken dinner"! I hope this helps those that find themselves in need of a King cruise replacement. I had them retain the old King box in case someone wanted to play electronics wizard. The bottom line is with King Controls gone, we know this works and the team at Apalachee RV in Auburn, Ga (NE of Atlanta) towards Athens have done it in a 96 Foretravel.

The photo shows the control box mounted behind the Throttle Position Sensor. Lots smaller than the old King box.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #37 – November 09, 2020, 08:44:26 pm

Alan, This is good news. Thanks for blazing the trail. Keep us posted.

Are you saying that Rostra is on board to help hundreds of coaches of many brands that are dead-ended with King. Are they also working on throttle as well as cruise?

I wrote to Rostra management giving them a heads up on King Cruise shutting down, explaining some background. I never heard back from Rostra.

Thanks,

Barry

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #38 – November 10, 2020, 06:47:24 am

I think the answer is "they had to help" us and seemed eager since they were developing solutions along the way for our situation. Since we were "the first" according to their staff, it probably was an opportunity to go back into product development mode using a real world situation. The fact that no high idle function was ever anticipated in the product suggests they really never understood the application to our heavy duty diesel. They never mentioned throttle applications (probably as weren't focused upon that issue as I have an air throttle.

Alan

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #39 – November 10, 2020, 07:35:26 am

Southwest International in Dallas, recently completed a conversion from the King Control to an Air Throttle and Cruise Control on a Country Coach. A fellow Monaco owner who spoke with Southwest International indicated the cost was not insignificant. Contact is Josh Wilhelm at (214) 689-1400. Southwest International, 3722 Irving Blvd, Dallas, TX 75247.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #40 – November 10, 2020, 11:06:04 am

I had a person contact me for more information about our wrecked Monaco. He was hoping to watch the auction, track down the buyer, and offer to buy the accelerator system from it.

Also, I saw this recently...

King to Air Throttle Conversion - General Discussion - Bill D's Monacoers

Matt B

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #41 – November 17, 2020, 12:09:39 pm

I have my old King Throttle box complete with the throttle cable. Be glad to ship to someone who might be interested in scavenging. Free to anyone who might need a winter project. Otherwise it will head to the disposal facility.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #42 – November 17, 2020, 12:18:26 pm

I'll take it please.
Ship to ;
Ogren ,Protech Racing
1220 Broad st.
Brooksville, FL
34604- 6812
Include the shipping amount, I'll send the cash. Thanks,MM 352.4288...983

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #43 – November 18, 2020, 07:24:54 am

Let you know when I get it out.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #44 – May 15, 2021, 11:39:54 pm

Hey all, been a while since I posted on here. Sad to sing King has shut down. More sad at my laziness over the years that I never sent them my cruise control box to get "rebuilt". It works fine, but it tends to lose speed on cruise control until I reset it it by hitting the brake. Looks like I got no fix now!

Anyway, I'm going to open up my box and see what is going on inside. I've been around the block once or twice and have some other nerd friends that between us we might be able to find some parts. I think I may just have a slipping clutch or stepper motor issue.

Quite a shame, and Stupid me for being a slacker and not addressing the problem years ago when I called up and talked to King on the phone.

If it comes down to complete replacement, I likely will go with some sort of PLC driven stepper motor.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #45 – May 16, 2021, 10:57:39 am

Quote from: krush – May 15, 2021, 11:39:54 pm

If it comes down to complete replacement, I likely will go with some sort of PLC driven stepper motor.

At fist look it appears you can utillize the existing throttle pedal and wiring, tied to an arduino, with an H-bridge to handle the stepper currrent. This is a pretty common application and designs and the sketches for code are out there. I don't know where the existing tps resides, mine definitely does not have the separate cable driven potentiometer TPS, it is either incorported into the accellerator pedal or resides in the King box. Replacement pedal assemblies for trucks are available with TPS incorporated into assembly. I think its readily doable and probably less failure prone than an aging King unit.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #46 – May 16, 2021, 11:29:36 am

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – May 16, 2021, 10:57:39 am

I don't know where the existing tps resides, mine definitely does not have the separate cable driven potentiometer TPS

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #47 – May 16, 2021, 02:17:48 pm

So, that is a noise filter, and come to think of it there really shouldnt be a need for a mechanical tps, position can be provided by the same potentiometer that provides info to step motor controller.

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #48 – November 21, 2021, 11:42:30 pm

I own a 1998 U270 with King Controls that I am converting to an air throttle. How did you eventually get your coach to shift? Did the garage replace the throttle positioning sensor?

Re: King Cruise Closed - suggested replacement?

Reply #49 – November 22, 2021, 08:35:58 am

Quote

How did you eventually get your coach to shift? Did the garage replace the throttle positioning sensor?

I recently did this conversion. For the Allison to shift properly you will need to purchase an Allison Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). They run about $515. The cable from the TPS attaches to the fuel control lever on the injector pump.
jor

Affiliate Notice