Why remove both axles

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Why remove both axles

April 10, 2021, 09:03:23 am

So.......a member mentioned that before towing to remove BOTH axles and cover with plates to prevent loss of fluid. Since there is only ONE drive axle and the other axle merely holds the wheel bearing in place, why remove the free wheeling one? I know DUB was towed with only 1 removed.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #1 – April 10, 2021, 09:21:01 am

You do not want the driveshaft to turn.
One reason
Is when front end is lifted the driveshaft angle changes where the pinion is. This is more noticeable in semi trucks with tandem axles. The increased angle would destroy the pinion
The other is to keep transmission from turning.
No fluid will pump and clutches would be dedtroyed etc.
You either disconnect the rear end of the
Driveshaft or pull axles out.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #2 – April 10, 2021, 10:10:35 am

Quote from: stump – April 10, 2021, 09:21:01 am

You do not want the driveshaft to turn.
One reason
Is when front end is lifted the driveshaft angle changes where the pinion is. This is more noticeable in semi trucks with tandem axles. The increased angle would destroy the pinion
The other is to keep transmission from turning.
No fluid will pump and clutches would be dedtroyed etc.
You either disconnect the rear end of the
Driveshaft or pull axles out.

Without the drive axle in place wouldn't that eliminate the transmission from turning?

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #3 – April 10, 2021, 10:21:51 am

It will play hell with the spider gears.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #4 – April 10, 2021, 10:24:17 am

Quote from: Twig – April 10, 2021, 09:03:23 am

So.......a member mentioned that before towing to remove BOTH axles and cover with plates to prevent loss of fluid. Since there is only ONE drive axle and the other axle merely holds the wheel bearing in place, why remove the free wheeling one? I know DUB was towed with only 1 removed.

No, this was a subject that came up years ago. You need to remove and cap both axles with poly caps/covers made especially for the purpose. You can also make up one from plastic, etc in case you never got around to ordering a set.

Please read my old post here at reply #7: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

The cap source is here: https://axlecap.net/index.html There is a reason they sell them in pairs.

Pulling the driveshaft has endless possibilities for trouble and not all are seen immediately.

Pierce

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #5 – April 10, 2021, 10:27:48 am

Spider gears are designed to adjust speed differences in wheel speed during a turn . During straight travel the do not change position much if at all. Not a continuous 100 mph turn for miles. Will cook the lube out of them and damage them. Some have gotten away with it but you will never know the damage. Axle caps, couple of plastic bags to put oily axles into. Worth every penny in prevention.
Scott

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #6 – April 10, 2021, 10:28:10 am

And there you have it!

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #7 – April 10, 2021, 10:40:47 am

Quote from: dsd – April 10, 2021, 10:27:48 am

Spider gears are designed to adjust speed differences in wheel speed during a turn . During straight travel the do not change position much if at all. Not a continuous 100 mph turn for miles. Will cook the lube out of them and damage them. Some have gotten away with it but you will never know the damage. Axle caps, couple of plastic bags to put oily axles into. Worth every penny in prevention.
Scott

And when you damage spider gears, the damage may or may not be apparent for thousands of miles. As Craneman pointed out, leaving one axle in may still allow the driveshaft to turn and damage the bearing in the end of the transmission. This also may not be seen immediately but you know how many coach bucks it could cost if it failed.

Spider gears are in plain bearings not ball/roller. Drag racers in the old days used to damage them by doing burn outs with the right wheel spinning while the left wheel remained stationary. They are not designed for this and will last forever in normal usage.

Pierce

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #8 – April 10, 2021, 11:48:45 am

The spider gears don't run in ball bearings, they have plain journals and are only intended to rotate with the difference between the inside and the outside wheels on the sharpest turn you can manage. Slowly towing a truck 3-5 miles is different from getting up on the highway for 25 miles.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #9 – April 10, 2021, 12:01:07 pm

2 miles at 20 mph equals 4 miles at 40 miles per hour because the spicer carrier speed is doubled with only one drive axle installed on a open diff
Scott

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #10 – April 10, 2021, 01:02:32 pm

Quote from: Twig – April 10, 2021, 09:03:23 am

Since there is only ONE drive axle and the other axle merely holds the wheel bearing in place, why remove the free wheeling one? I know DUB was towed with only 1 removed.

No, both axles share the load. Foretravels have "full floating axles," meaning the axles don't carry any coach weight. In a semi-floating axle, the axle carries the weight of the vehicle. With a full floating rear end, it's the housing that holds the bearing, carries the load. And there are two bearings about 2 or 3 inches apart that do this. This is the difference between most 1/2 ton pickups and a 3/4 ton. It costs more to have a hub with a bearing out there than an axle with a bearing pressed on or slightly better, a clip that holds it in place.

So, a semi floating rear end's axles must carry the weight of the vehicle plus provide the rotational torque to the wheels where the full floater's axle only provides rotational torque. The beauty of this is you can remove a few axle bolts in a minute or so and just pull the whole axle out and then put the covers on you purchased to keep oil from spilling out. The wheel/tire assembly does not move.

Pictures are worth a thousand words: Full Floating Rear Ends – The Ranger Station

Pierce

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #11 – April 10, 2021, 07:38:30 pm

Does anyone know if this is the correct cover for the U280/U300 Unihome?
MR10D

Asking for a friend.............

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #12 – April 10, 2021, 07:48:30 pm

Quote from: Twig – April 10, 2021, 09:03:23 am

So.......a member mentioned that before towing to remove BOTH axles and cover with plates to prevent loss of fluid. Since there is only ONE drive axle and the other axle merely holds the wheel bearing in place, why remove the free wheeling one? I know DUB was towed with only 1 removed.
[/quote
I questioned the tow driver firmly about pulling one axle. Traffic on the drivers side wouldn't let him pull it where we were at. He crawled under the coach and the drive shaft would turn free by hand and stated there was no way the rear end or transmission could turn. After that I stopped arguing with him about it..That's also the reason I didn't insist on getting off the next exit and pull the other axle.. I have only driven it 4000 miles since then with no changes in the performance or noise from the transmission or rear end.. It may very well come back and bite me but it is what it is.. If it's ever towed again it will be done different. Seems if the drive shaft can be turned by hand that neither the differential or transmission would turn but I sure won't argue the point and from the post above the tow driver may have been wrong, bad on me if he was.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #13 – April 10, 2021, 09:07:19 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – April 10, 2021, 07:38:30 pm

Does anyone know if this is the correct cover for the U280/U300 Unihome?
MR10D
Asking for a friend.............

We have a 8 bolt Meritor hub on our 1993 U300 so it takes the MR8D-1

Pierce

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #14 – April 10, 2021, 09:26:35 pm

thanks Pierce, we have the 10 bolt pattern but I wasn't sure about the Meritor hub, this should work on our 95 U280 then.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #15 – April 10, 2021, 09:39:18 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – April 10, 2021, 09:26:35 pm

thanks Pierce, we have the 10 bolt pattern but I wasn't sure about the Meritor hub, this should work on our 95 U280 then.

The 8 bolts are on the axle flange and can't be seen if the stainless covers are on. I got rid of the covers as you have to remove every other wheel nut to get the stainless cover off before you can get to the axle bolts. There are small stainless covers available that fit the hub so you don't have to remove the big cover and can sell it, etc. That's why tow truck drivers don't like to pull both axles as they have to remove the big stainless cover on the opposite side also.

This has nothing to do with the the 10 nuts you have to remove on the wheel itself to change tires.

Pierce

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #16 – April 10, 2021, 10:19:22 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 10, 2021, 09:39:18 pm

The 8 bolts are on the axle flange and can't be seen if the stainless covers are on. I got rid of the covers as you have to remove every other wheel nut to get the stainless cover off before you can get to the axle bolts. There are small stainless covers available that fit the hub so you don't have to remove the big cover and can sell it, etc. That's why tow truck drivers don't like to pull both axles as they have to remove the big stainless cover on the opposite side also.

This has nothing to do with the the 10 nuts you have to remove on the wheel itself to change tires.

Pierce

My mistake........ thanks, heck I knew that...... it's been a long week and the brain had kicked out of gear.

Yes I have the chrome caps and its a pain to get them off. I will check out the ones you have and probably swap them out when I get the brakes worked on next month.

Did not intend to hi-jack this thread....................

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #17 – April 10, 2021, 10:30:20 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – April 10, 2021, 10:19:22 pm

My mistake........ thanks, heck I knew that...... it's been a long week and the brain had kicked out of gear.
Yes I have the chrome caps and its a pain to get them off. I will check out the ones you have and probably swap them out when I get the brakes worked on next month.
Did not intend to hi-jack this thread....................

No hi-jacking here. It's quite relevant. And I was guessing that you were thinking of the lug nuts. Stuff like that happens to me all the time.

Pierce

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #18 – April 11, 2021, 01:31:47 pm

I know some old diesel mechanics that disagree on having to pull both axles on the same rear end to tow and one is familiar with Allison as well. I won't debate either opinion.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #19 – April 11, 2021, 01:56:45 pm

The wrecker I just had come get me knew exactly what I was asking for. He said he usually just disconnects the drive shaft but is happy to do the axles if that is my preference. He was familiar with the process and knew exactly what to do. I did tell him that I wanted both axles removed and he said "absolutely, that's standard procedure". Picture attached for those of you who haven't seen it before (and I hope you never have to!).

One thing to keep in mind is that you will have to pay a mechanic to put them back in. The tow company won't because it requires new seals and such so they expect that to be done by someone else at whatever destination you have it towed to.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #20 – April 11, 2021, 01:59:00 pm

Quote from: Dub – April 11, 2021, 01:31:47 pm

I know some old diesel mechanics that disagree on having to pull both axles on the same rear end to tow and one is familiar with Allison as well. I won't debate either opinion.

I saw first hand a old mechanic trying to prove a point on running a engine out of oil. The bunch of them put there wagers in and fired up a old worn out Cadillac 500 and propped the throttle wide open with the drain plug removed. Several hours and many beers later it ran out of gas. Filled it up with oil and sold it several months later. This was 45 years ago.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #21 – April 11, 2021, 02:01:40 pm

Axle seals at Napa are under 10$ torque values can be looked up. Glad you got a good driver
Scott

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #22 – April 11, 2021, 02:11:05 pm

Quote from: Elliott – April 11, 2021, 01:56:45 pm

One thing to keep in mind is that you will have to pay a mechanic to put them back in. The tow company won't because it requires new seals and such so they expect that to be done by someone else at whatever destination you have it towed to.

If the old gasket (not seal) is damaged, you could install a new one. They are only a couple of dollars. Nothing to putting the axles back on. If they have been kept clean, just put them back where they came out. Check rear end oil level if any has been lost. E-2436, Drive Flange Gasket - 8 Hole, 5.5" Bolt Circle, 4.5" ID, 6-5/8" OD,... This is a one on a one to ten scale.

Pierce

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #23 – April 11, 2021, 02:15:24 pm

Thanks Pierce and Scott. At this point insurance is footing my bill so I am mentally checked out for a while. It's someone else's problem at the collision center. And honestly, it's probably a good thing. I've be dumping so much energy, time, and money into breathing new life into my coach that a forced breather is probably healthy.

Re: Why remove both axles

Reply #24 – April 11, 2021, 02:23:46 pm

The hub seals are a PITA and expensive.
The hubs are not removed or tampered with when towing.
The outer axle gasket is paper ish and goes in easy with the axle . Slight skim of RTV works fine also. REfill the diff oil.

The above statement is correct" removing one axle double speeds the spider gears and will harm them at much speed or distance."

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