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Topic: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300 (Read 2800 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #25
No question, the governor is the "most likely suspect" and is the least expensive and easiest to replace.

Kind of like changing fuel filters if performance issue-- most likely suspect.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #26



The task is not easy at all, it took me about 4 hours to complete the change. I initially tried to get the dryer off by loosing the two ring holding bolt. That was impossible. There is not place to put wrench on. I then decided to took the whole mounting hardware off.
Thing will never go smooth, once I reconnect all the hose and wire. Engine start, I can see the air pressure is rising, great. At least I didn't connect the supply hose to the delivery port. :D  But WTF, it is over 140PSI and keep rising. Didn't hear the purge valve kicked in. Old AD4 purge normally at 120 psi. The D2 governor might be seized. Of cause it is going to seize after 5 hours of sweat to change the dryer.

I removed and re-installed the band clamps. More of my extensive but useless skill set: i.e. working blind.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #27
Just replaced with a new D2 governor and still no purge from the air dryer and air pressure still get to 150 psi and not stopping

I am at lost now. What could be the cause?

I plan to change back to the old AD4 dryer and see if it is still like this. any other suggestions?
1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #28
Possible unloader valve stuck in the compressor. Put some corrosion X in the port from the tank to the compressor.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #29
Went through the same trouble when my 4 would not purge, thought what heck I will change over to a AD 9. Went through the same thing u did with mounting , got back together and bingo no purge, made a few phone calls no help.
Sooo starting looking around the compressor and found between the head and bracket on the side of the compressor was an open port put a 1/4 inch plug on and bingo worked.
Long story short after rebuilding my 4 and no purge bought a 9 and all along it was a missing plug. Good luck. Call me of I can help 406-852-3776.
Andy & Eileen
MONTROSE COLORADO
1992 U300  40' 6V92 TA
2016 4 Runner
1998 Jeep Grand cherokee

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee) Build # 4135 Skp# 122921

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #30
Went through the same trouble when my 4 would not purge, thought what heck I will change over to a AD 9. Went through the same thing u did with mounting , got back together and bingo no purge, made a few phone calls no help.
Sooo starting looking around the compressor and found between the head and bracket on the side of the compressor was an open port put a 1/4 inch plug on and bingo worked.
Long story short after rebuilding my 4 and no purge bought a 9 and all along it was a missing plug. Good luck. Call me of I can help 406-852-3776.

Thanks for the info.

Your engine is also 6V92, I hope the compressor is the same model.

I am trying to picture where the port is located. When you say between the head and brackets, are referring to between the compressor head and the d2 governor gasket? I don't think there is any open port there.

Has to be somewhere else.



1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #31
I had the same problem 6 years ago when I was servicing the air system (with inspiration from Chuck!) and rebuilding the AD-4. I found out after all that work it wouldn't stop building air even with the dryer bypass and a new governor.  I also tried using a shop compressor with 100 psi hooked up to the inlet port on the compressor from the the governor to check for leaks.  After getting tech support from Bendix I finally figured out the unloader valves were rusted shut from neglect by the PO.
 
Unfortunately this was a Tu-Flo 501 compressor and to service the unloaders you have to take the head off!  The newer models allow you to access the unloaders from the top.  As Craneman suggested I tried removing the intake hose from the engine and spraying the unloaders with PB Blaster to free them up but with no success. 

It's a royal pita to access the unloader port on a 6v92 with a Tu-Flo 501.  Because the compressor is on an angle in back of the engine the unloader port faces downward and I had to get on top of the engine and hang upside down using a mirror to see what I was doing.  There is very little room to work.  It was in July  and heatstroke weather here.  After many attempts, a few new cuss words and struggling mightily, finally got the old ones out and replaced with new ones.  You can get the unloader kit and Tu-Flo field service kit online or at your local big truck parts store.

If you are going to do this, make sure you soak the head bolts well or you might  snap one off.  Also make sure you torque the head bolts down to specs when done.  If I knew what I was in for I would replace the 501 with a newer model.  Easier access to the unloaders and more cfm. 
 
This link should give you all you need to know with some pics.  Good luck!
PS:  Don't overlook periodic maintenance on the unloaders!

Jerry

Air Leak
The selected media item is not currently available.
Jerry and Cindy Maddux
1993 U300/36WTBI DD6v92TA
build 4271  "Miss Lou"
1995 suzuki sidekick 4x4 toad
Gulfport, Ms

"Pride of Ownership"

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #32
I had the same problem 6 years ago when I was servicing the air system (with inspiration from Chuck!) and rebuilding the AD-4. I found out after all that work it wouldn't stop building air even with the dryer bypass and a new governor.  I also tried using a shop compressor with 100 psi hooked up to the inlet port on the compressor from the the governor to check for leaks.  After getting tech support from Bendix I finally figured out the unloader valves were rusted shut from neglect by the PO.
 
Unfortunately this was a Tu-Flo 501 compressor and to service the unloaders you have to take the head off!  The newer models allow you to access the unloaders from the top.  As Craneman suggested I tried removing the intake hose from the engine and spraying the unloaders with PB Blaster to free them up but with no success. 

It's a royal pita to access the unloader port on a 6v92 with a Tu-Flo 501.  Because the compressor is on an angle in back of the engine the unloader port faces downward and I had to get on top of the engine and hang upside down using a mirror to see what I was doing.  There is very little room to work.  It was in July  and heatstroke weather here.  After many attempts, a few new cuss words and struggling mightily, finally got the old ones out and replaced with new ones.  You can get the unloader kit and Tu-Flo field service kit online or at your local big truck parts store.

If you are going to do this, make sure you soak the head bolts well or you might  snap one off.  Also make sure you torque the head bolts down to specs when done.  If I knew what I was in for I would replace the 501 with a newer model.  Easier access to the unloaders and more cfm. 
 
This link should give you all you need to know with some pics.  Good luck!
PS:  Don't overlook periodic maintenance on the unloaders!

Jerry

Air Leak

Thanks for the post. The step in your post sounds very scary.

I have talked with Andy and I will try his method first.
If that is not working, I might have to follow your step. I don't know if that is even doable for me.

Is there a drop-in replacement of the air compressor?
How easy is it to replace the whole air compressor than just service the part of it? I can't image hanging upside down for many hours to work on this.
1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #33
I checked with Foretravel service and was told that the Tu-Flo 550 or 750 should bolt right on as long as it is one for a Detroit 6v92.

If I were replacing mine I would get a reman 750.  Either way it's no easy job.  The intake and output ports should be in the same place as well as the cooling hose connections.  I would get some plugs for the coolant hoses to minimize coolant loss.  I lost about a gallon or so when I disconnected mine.  Either way it won't be easy because of the cramped compartment and the weight of the compressor.   

An upgrade from a 501(12cfm) to a 550(13.2cfm) or 750(16.5cfm should give you much more cfm and be much easier to service the unloaders.  I would however double check with Bendix or somebody that made the upgrade to make sure either one will bolt on to a 6v92 with no modifications. 

I like Andy's solution better!

Jerry

The selected media item is not currently available.
Jerry and Cindy Maddux
1993 U300/36WTBI DD6v92TA
build 4271  "Miss Lou"
1995 suzuki sidekick 4x4 toad
Gulfport, Ms

"Pride of Ownership"

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #34

It is fixed now! :D

Short version:

Changed to a known good D2 governor and everything is working.

Long version:

So I was trying to fix the issue of AD9 not purging and air pressure keep rising over 140 PSI.
The compressor model no. is Bendix TU-FLOW 501
I tried @Andy 2 post. I couldn't find the any missing nut on the opposite side of the D2 governor right below the alternator. Apparently D2 governor can be installed on both side of the compressor. This side has a nut to fill the hole and it seems just fine.

I really not want to go through what @coastprt suggested. Losing 2 gallon of the coolant, taking the head off. Just too much for my wrenching capability. I want to rule out other possibility before going this road.

First I followed what @Chuck & Jeannie suggested, adding a pressure gauge to one of the port of the Reservoir (1/8 pipe thread). The gauge is showing around 75 PSI when front gauge shows about 120 PSI. That is certainly not right. Without enough pressure, D2 governor won't work. So I took the fitting off the governor and directly connect the gauge to the hose from the reservoir. and I still got about 75 PSI. So the issue is between the hose to the wet tank. Looking into the fitting, I can see there are some rust are blocking the hose. While under pressure, I used a small needle to clean up the hose and decent amount of the rust was blown out. But the pressure gauge was still showing 75 PSI even if the front gauge shows 120PSI. There has to be something down the hose.

So went under the bus to check the wet tank. There is a Tee fitting which connects the hose to governor and a safety valve (Bendix 284142 1/4 NPT). I was trying to take the Tee off the tank, but it was seized really bad. and the male brass fitting was broken into half. It was a major challenge to get the broken fitting out. Luckily, I have this tool

With the help of certain words, I was able to get the broken piece out.

Connecting the safety valve to portable air compressor, it is leaking pretty bad. Connecting to the pressure gauge and 75 PSI even if the tank has over 100 PSI. So that might be the issue! I was super excited and quickly installed everything back, Only to learn that the issue is still there. But the good news is that the pressure gauge shows over 100 PSI now instead of just 75 PSI. Also I know for sure the Air dryer is working fine by directly applying 100PSI pressure to the control line to the dryer. good news.

I bought two D2 governor, one is Torque air governor, the other one is Bendix OR275491X Torque air arrives earlier than the Bendix, so I replaced the one I bough 1 year ago from Napa with the Torque air. I never thought the D2 governor is the cause of the issue. Old one is only 1 year old, new one just bought. But none of these two governor works.



Without knowing exactly how the D2 governor works, I applied 120 PSI air to the reservoir port. I can see the piston moving, but no pressure from the unloader valve. I initially thought it is normal. as the two governor tested the same. How likely 1 year old governor and new governor both failed at the same time? Well, I am the lucky one. Recently I received the Bendix Reman governor and I apply pressure to the reservoir port, there is air come out the unloader/control port. And now everything make sense. The D2 governor is so simple. When reservior reach over 120 PSI, the piston will move and deliver the air pressure to the control/unloader port. The air pressure will then trigger the air dryer purge and compressor unload. Install the new Bendix governor, and I finally heard the purging sound. It never sounds so good! Air pressure also never exceed 120PSI.  All works now!

So the moral of the story is to use name brand part. Had the Bendix governor arrives earlier than the Torque air, I probably won't need to go through all this hassle. Well lesson learned. next time will just buy parts from name brand.

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1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #35
Congrats on persevering until you found the solution!

It sounds like your wet tank is producing a lot of rust particles that are finding their way into the tank fittings and air hose going to the D2.  Although you have cleaned then out for now, it is very likely this problem will reoccur at some point, depending on how much you use your coach.  IIWY, I would look into replacing the wet tank.  A new tank with all new fittings and a new air hose to D2 might save you a lot of aggravation and down time in the future.  Just something to consider...

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #36
I am thinking about replacing the wet tank. It has a rust pin hole at the bottom.  That was my very first challenge to rescue the bus. With @stump help, I am able to taper a new hole. According to the shop, it is illegal to patch air tank for over the road truck. So I always want to replace it.

What shop can repair the wet tank? I search air tank repair, nothing looks like a repair shop.

How much would it cost?

Congrats on persevering until you found the solution!

It sounds like your wet tank is producing a lot of rust particles that are finding their way into the tank fittings and air hose going to the D2.  Although you have cleaned then out for now, it is very likely this problem will reoccur at some point, depending on how much you use your coach.  IIWY, I would look into replacing the wet tank.  A new tank with all new fittings and a new air hose to D2 might save you a lot of aggravation and down time in the future.  Just something to consider...


1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #37
Use the Forum search tool.  Search for "replacement wet tank".  The top hit is a link to thread started by Len.barron where the subject is discussed.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #38
I bought Mark Duckworth's wet tank on the Forum. He had an issue with desiccant in the tanks due to a failed air dryer canister and he bought new ones. No rust and I was able to get the powder out and it sits on my spares shelf should I need it.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #39
Use the Forum search tool.  Search for "replacement wet tank".  The top hit is a link to thread started by Len.barron where the subject is discussed.


I am embarrassed. I can't find the post using the search tool. I search for "replacement wet tank". Only one post returns and it is my own post O:)





Can you provide the direct link to the post?
1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: How to update Bendix AD4 to AD9 on 91 GV U300

Reply #40
Can you provide the direct link to the post?
OK - I was in town earlier using my phone.  I'm back on my computer now where I can post a link.  Read from Reply #12 on down:

Basement Floor Bulkhead Repair Aluminum

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"