50 AMP RV Connection Box

Topic: 50 AMP RV Connection Box (Read 2554 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #25 – July 05, 2021, 08:49:51 am

Quote from: dbennett9 – July 05, 2021, 01:28:55 am

You mentioned that you are in Texas in an area with rocky soil. I did a similar project before I sold my home in Central Texas, and after attempting to dig deep enough for direct burial, I gave up and used rigid conduit. The ground was simply too hard for me to dig to the depth required by code.

Yes, digging a trench to bury the wire will be a challenge. When they installed the cable shown in my photos (initial post), the electrician and his helper first attempted digging by hand. On my property I usually hit rock about 3-6 inches below the surface. He gave up on shovel and pick. Went to town, rented a portable trenching machine. The first one broke after digging about half the required 35' distance. They returned it and came back with a second machine that managed to complete the trench. I don't recall how deep they actually went, but it was a struggle all the way.

Anything I can do to reduce the depth required for the cable burial will be a money saver. If i could figure a way to run the wires above ground (other than the aforementioned 100' extension cord), I would do that.

Keep the comments coming! I am (always) in awe at the depth of diverse knowledge available in this group.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #26 – July 05, 2021, 09:59:16 am

Nec code. Imc or rigid conduit 6" deep

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #27 – July 05, 2021, 12:35:00 pm

Quote from: turbojack – July 05, 2021, 09:59:16 am

Imc or rigid conduit 6" deep

I LIKE the sound of 6" deep! That would be much more do-able. Will look into the cost of IMC conduit locally. Thanx.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #28 – July 05, 2021, 05:25:36 pm

This is probably a stupid question, but due to ignorance I can't see why it would not work. In this case, I am looking at running perhaps 100' of wire, inside some kind of conduit, from my old RV plug to a new RV plug. This would be a straight shot - no turns required.

I've watched a lot of youtube videos showing various ways to fish, or push, wire through long runs of conduit. In all the cases I have watched, they assemble the total length of conduit on the ground, and usually at least lay it in the trench...or sometimes they go ahead and completely bury it. THEN, they have to get the wires all the way through the pipe, one way or another. It is usually a two person job, and often difficult.

So I'm thinking (always dangerous) why not lay out the total length of all 4 wires from one end to the other. The conduit comes in 10' long joints. You could work from either end, or both ends, and slide one joint of tubing at a time over the wires. Seems like it would be a lot easier working the wires through one joint at a time. Slide the first joint to the middle of the wire string, then slide each additional section over the wires to meet the joints in the middle. Make up the connections between each joint as they are slid together. When you are done joining all 10 joints together, roll the whole assembly into the trench and cover it up.

Why wouldn't that work?

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #29 – July 05, 2021, 06:11:09 pm

Sounds good to me, especially since it's a straight run.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #30 – July 05, 2021, 07:11:05 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – July 05, 2021, 05:25:36 pm

This is probably a stupid question, but due to ignorance I can't see why it would not work. In this case, I am looking at running perhaps 100' of wire, inside some kind of conduit, from my old RV plug to a new RV plug. This would be a straight shot - no turns required.

I've watched a lot of youtube videos showing various ways to fish, or push, wire through long runs of conduit. In all the cases I have watched, they assemble the total length of conduit on the ground, and usually at least lay it in the trench...or sometimes they go ahead and completely bury it. THEN, they have to get the wires all the way through the pipe, one way or another. It is usually a two person job, and often difficult.

So I'm thinking (always dangerous) why not lay out the total length of all 4 wires from one end to the other. The conduit comes in 10' long joints. You could work from either end, or both ends, and slide one joint of tubing at a time over the wires. Seems like it would be a lot easier working the wires through one joint at a time. Slide the first joint to the middle of the wire string, then slide each additional section over the wires to meet the joints in the middle. Make up the connections between each joint as they are slid together. When you are done joining all 10 joints together, roll the whole assembly into the trench and cover it up.

Why wouldn't that work?

I have done basically the same thing with short sections of PVC conduit. The only problem I can imagine would be twisting the wires while threading the sections together and potentially damaging the insulation. That should not be a problem if the conduit is sized large enough that the wire is not a tight fit. On the other hand, if you size the conduit right and have a long enough fish tape, 100' of straight run should not be a difficult pull.

Dave & Kathy Bennett
2004 U270

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #31 – July 05, 2021, 07:21:38 pm

In Canada we have Teck Cable which can be put in the ground and is a lot
easier to work with, but I don't know if it is allowed where you are. Looking at
your picture it looks like to me that the cable might all ready too small. I have my
motor home pulled into a 40 amp breaker that was already there which if my wire
was to small would be safer and has more than enough power than I would ever need.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #32 – July 05, 2021, 07:32:25 pm

They also sell some liquid(gel) that you rub on the wire that is slick and lubricates the wire to help it slide thru when you pull

Keith

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #33 – July 05, 2021, 07:38:02 pm

Put your pipe in bury it, tie a piece if rag on a builders string and use a shop vac on the other end to suck the string through the pipe. Then pull a suitable rope, I use para cord and attach it to your wire and pull it through. Number 6-8 4 conductors 1 1/4 1 1/2 over would be good. Number 10 would be fine for a ground. Way easier than 10' at a time.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #34 – July 05, 2021, 07:51:52 pm

Chuck
Legally you cannot install wiring in conduit that way, it must be pulled in after the conduit is installed as Bbean suggest. That's the code. If if can be pulled in then it can be pulled out if necessary. I've seen it done the way you mention but as a journeyman wireman, I certainly can't recommend you doing it that way. 😳

Vacuum and a string tied to a rag then pull a larger pull rope in with the string. Use the pull rope with wire lubricant on the conductors and you can pull while Jeanie feeds it and all is good. 😎

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #35 – July 05, 2021, 08:01:59 pm

"Why wouldn't that work?", Chuck, the joints have to be glued. It wont take excess glue to lock the cables in place, it may damage to covering.

It is not hard to pull cable through if you use wire pulling lube, and the conduit is cheap, use a bigger size conduit and make it even easier. Most electricians I have watched pull all the wires through in one bundle if you are using individual wires.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #36 – July 05, 2021, 08:04:25 pm

Chuck I've done it that way many times using pvc conduit. But I'm not a licensed electrician.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #37 – July 05, 2021, 08:52:14 pm

OK, OK the nays have it. Scratch that idea.

I figured there must be some legitimate objection to doing it that way...otherwise there would be a bunch of youtube videos on "How To".

Back to the drawing board...

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #38 – July 05, 2021, 09:06:26 pm

Chuck, the pushing the wire in the conduit 10' at a time works ok on short runs, but will be a hand full on a 100' plus a 90 on each end where it turns up out of the ground. It's no big deal pulling the wire in.

I'm currently sitting with 50amp at the end of 110' of #6 SO cord, then 150' of #8 SO cord. 120 volts at the house end under a 20 amp load ( One ac) battery charger in float, frig on AC. 108volts at the motor home.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #39 – July 05, 2021, 09:07:33 pm

Rent a wire snake, lube and pull all the wires through at once. I only have up to 100' snakes but you could rent a longer one. I pulled by myself 75' of #6 wire to my shop without any trouble. Pulled all 4 at one time.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #40 – July 05, 2021, 09:19:15 pm

never try to pull one at the time................ real PITA........

If you were closer...... MUCH closer............. I would be happy to help you with the install.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #41 – July 05, 2021, 09:24:59 pm

We're I inclined to use copper? (I would use Aluminum to save the $$$) I would use this SER in lieu of individual strands.
Or find a THHN cable rated TCER-JP and direct bury without conduit if that was an option.
Legal if your state is on NEC 2017 code or later.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #42 – July 05, 2021, 09:33:27 pm

Chuck was wanting to use Rigid Metal conduit instead of direct burial cable to reduce the required burial depth

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #43 – July 05, 2021, 09:55:40 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – July 05, 2021, 09:33:27 pm

Chuck was wanting to use Rigid Metal conduit instead of direct burial cable to reduce the required burial depth

[/quote
With steel prices today, might be cheaper to just rent a trencher and use pvc. But is it going to be inspected

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #44 – July 05, 2021, 11:05:12 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – July 05, 2021, 09:24:59 pm

Legal if your state is on NEC 2017 code or later.

After turbojack mentioned NEC and IMC rigid metal conduit, I looked up "NEC". Found out Texas is on NEC 2020 revision.

I think getting a trench dug 100+ foot long and down to either 18" (PVC conduit) or 24" (direct burial) in our extremely rocky ground would be a major expense. The possibility of using IMC rigid conduit and only needing to go down 6" is intriguing.

I need to do some local research to compare the relative total cost (material + trenching expense) of using each burial method.

And, as Bruce asked, I also need to inquire about whether the work would get inspected. I suspect the answer is NO. AFAIK, nobody ever looked at the work I had done to install my power box next to our driveway.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #45 – July 06, 2021, 01:07:07 am

Yes conduit costs more but long term it's the way to go. Direct burial always fails down the road. Pulling cable in is not a big deal. We are actually required to pull a bullet thru the conduit prior to pulling wires. Verify that it's not pinched.
Scott

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #46 – July 06, 2021, 08:10:14 am

The depth requirement is simply to keep some one from hitting with a shovel, has nothing to do with any thing else.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #47 – July 06, 2021, 08:15:54 am

Codes never seem to mean a thing until there is a lawsuit.
Rocks in Texas? From what we saw when we wintered there rocks are topsoil.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #48 – July 06, 2021, 08:36:09 am

I was watching a "This Old House" video last night where they ran 240V power from house to a shed. They were aiming for 18" deep trench to use PVC conduit. They hit solid rock half way across the yard, and trench was only 8" deep. They said they could cover the conduit with a 2" layer of concrete and it would still be legal. Wonder if that would work in my case. The rock in our soil is not "solid" but it might as well be.

Re: 50 AMP RV Connection Box

Reply #49 – July 06, 2021, 08:42:15 am

Quote from: bbeane – July 06, 2021, 08:10:14 am

The depth requirement is simply to keep some one from hitting with a shovel, has nothing to do with any thing else.

Had a chuckle at this. At my lot where the alum. wire was nicked the phone company dug a 4' deep hole 2' next to the power meter box and managed to hit one of the wires! Myself, I would have never dug that close to a power box! And never mentioned that to me.

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