Injector leak? ISC350

Topic: Injector leak? ISC350 (Read 1865 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #25 – July 14, 2021, 10:47:33 pm

Video of diesel leak on YouTube at

https://youtu.be/_-LnZFRFJaY

Using Don and Tys parts diagram I'd say it's the CAPS injection pump...not the lift pump. Can I fix?

So where does that leave me? Tomorrow I'll look for a legit Cummins shop to repair. I have an appt at Cummins Coach Care in Billings, MT 9/15 but that leave me several months dead in the water.

And I'm not sure what parts are needed. I know parts delays are an issue. Ideas?

Randy

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #26 – July 14, 2021, 11:34:40 pm

Unless there is a leak on the ground, the photo you posted don't show a leak anything like in the video. I still say clean the area and then see for sure where it's coming from. It will really only take a few minutes to figure it out.

Pierce

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #27 – July 15, 2021, 12:16:44 am

My point is also that you need to see where the leak is coming from to be one step ahead of the shop if you have to take it there. If there is a leak, you point at it and tell them to fix it and have them explain the parts and cost. Asking what is wrong can open up a can of worms. Not saying I don't trust but...

Pierce

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #28 – July 15, 2021, 08:31:36 am

I would find a cummins dealer and get it fix now. it's got to be fix and it would be a relief of your mind and May stop being tow in, that will be a big bill better to drive in to the lot than being tow in and still have to get it fixed

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #29 – July 15, 2021, 01:36:28 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 15, 2021, 12:16:44 am

My point is also that you need to see where the leak is coming from to be one step ahead of the shop if you have to take it there. If there is a leak, you point at it and tell them to fix it and have them explain the parts and cost. Asking what is wrong can open up a can of worms. Not saying I don't trust but...

Pierce

The leak is coming from the component in the video. Using the diagram posted in this thread by Don & Tys it's component 20 labeled s CAPS injection pump. Not lift pump which is further back on the engine.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #30 – July 15, 2021, 02:22:52 pm

Tha could start to get $$$$$, if it's the CAPS pump leaking.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #31 – July 15, 2021, 02:25:14 pm

At this point (3 months into a 6 month trip and 4500 miles from home) a proper fix is more important than $$$$.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #32 – July 15, 2021, 04:12:29 pm

In 2015, rebuilt from Cummins CAPS pump 3800.00, 1200.00 install. As I was not in a place where I could do it myself. With that said they will now replace only the necessary parts on the pump rather than the entire pump. IIRC their are 5 modules that make up the pump. I would be careful with internet deals.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #33 – July 18, 2021, 07:56:24 pm

Safely made the 120 mile run from Cody to Billings. Wrapped the injection pump with a baby diaper to catch the drips and the trip was uneventful. No codes and no starting or running issues. Tomorrow I'll see what I can do at Cummings to move us up from our Sept 20 appt.

Enjoying our stay at the Billings Elks Club.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #34 – July 19, 2021, 07:49:29 am

If you are in Billings, MT check with Interstate Power, 406-670-1881. They rebuilt Technomadia's Detroit a couple of years ago.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #35 – July 19, 2021, 10:52:07 am

I think Andy worked at a Billings diesel shop. He would be the guy to talk to for advice. https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=431

Pierce

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #36 – July 19, 2021, 11:37:02 am

Cummins CoachCare in Billings will get us back on the road. We'll move the coach there this afternoon so it will be ready when they have an opening.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #37 – July 29, 2021, 07:07:07 pm

ISC Injection pump installed yesterday. Lift pump to be installed today. Lift pump still operational but decoded to replace it along with injection pump so they'd both be "new". While old injection pump will be kept by Cummins as "core" for rebuild, lift pump is not. Trying to decide it I'll keep the lift pump (as a spare) or sell it here in classifieds. Would this be something others would want?

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #38 – July 29, 2021, 07:15:38 pm

If you don't mind sharing $$$, my pump was 5800. In 2015

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #39 – July 29, 2021, 07:19:38 pm

Quote from: bbeane – July 29, 2021, 07:15:38 pm

If you don't mind sharing $$$, my pump was 5800. In 2015

Haven't seen the bill yet but initial quote was around $5200 and I understood that as cost of part. I'll update after final bill.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #40 – July 29, 2021, 07:36:51 pm

Quote from: floridarandy – July 29, 2021, 07:07:07 pm

While old injection pump will be kept by Cummins as "core" for rebuild, lift pump is not. Trying to decide it I'll keep the lift pump (as a spare) or sell it here in classifieds. Would this be something others would want?

If it's the mechanical lift pump on the side of the engine, driven off the cam, I'd keep it as a spare if it came out working. Never know where you'll be and what availability might be if the new one fails. I don't think they are very expensive...IE, you're not going to recoup a bunch of $ if you sell it.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #41 – July 29, 2021, 10:37:07 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – July 29, 2021, 07:36:51 pm

If it's the mechanical lift pump on the side of the engine, driven off the cam, I'd keep it as a spare if it came out working. Never know where you'll be and what availability might be if the new one fails. I don't think they are very expensive...IE, you're not going to recoup a bunch of $ if you sell it.

Great point Keith. Think I will keep it with the coach. When the day comes to sell the coach our hope is that all the money we put into the coach to make it attractive, reliable and "right" for us will allow the next owner to carry on the fun with the confidence we did everything we could to make it "better than buying new".

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #42 – July 30, 2021, 08:21:35 am

Your lift pump on an ISC is electric.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #43 – July 30, 2021, 08:50:36 am

When you get your bill, could you post the part numbers?

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #44 – July 31, 2021, 01:44:35 pm

Part numbers and prices attached. Total cost $9924.08. Parts $5965.88 and Labor $3958.20. Total also included generator oil change (I supplied filters since the only had Onan in stock).

Previous posts indicated this Cummins shop is scheduling appointments in Sept due to shortage in mechanics. Our tech had been flown in from Cummins Pennsylvania to help with their backlog.

I was really thankful this shop did everything they could to get us back on the road. I'd recommend them to anyone traveling near Billings.

Expensive, yes. Could I have gotten by with a partial repair on injection pump...maybe. Did I have to replace lift pump..no. Could I have saved the labor by doing it myself....Yes, but that's not me....my best tool is my pen and checkbook. We simply made the decision to continue our adventure with the fuel delivery system totally replaced. Cummins was surprised our injection pump had lasted 21 years and 174k miles. They report failure rate on injection pump 3x greater than lift pump but cost of lift pump and labor was reported to be about $800 of the total repair so we decided to have it replaced as well.

So we're back on the road today after a 2 week hiatus.

This is what we chose to do...your decisions are what's right for you.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #45 – July 31, 2021, 02:17:38 pm

Quote from: floridarandy – July 31, 2021, 01:44:35 pm

Total cost $9924.08.
I was really thankful this shop did everything they could to get us back on the road. I'd recommend them to anyone traveling near Billings.

Yikes. Glad I was sitting down when I read. Glad it's resolved. Sure glad ISM's don't have those issues. Probably pay as you go with reduced fuel economy. Does bite into reserves I already spent, I'd have to steal money from the Bronco project, at least it is there. Really reminds me of how vulnerable one can be on the road. #1 thing that's makes me loose sleep over the coach. So glad it's resolved regardless of how you did it! I try to allot 50 cents a mile till I get back to 10k.
Scott

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #46 – July 31, 2021, 02:58:39 pm

With the only a fair reliability record for the CUPS pumps, quite a few Cummins owners have changed over to the mechanical injection. As I remember, all new parts with a P pump cost about $8500 plus installation. Cummins has fitted rotary pumps, Bosch P, MW, A pumps, Nippon pumps on their engines in the past. The Bosch inline piston pumps last forever and almost never give any kind of trouble. Buying used parts, the conversion would cost under $2K

I've pulled lots of Bosch MW pumps for re-calibration after EPA test or turbo installation. It's a really easy installation with a set of injectors, the heat shield under the injector, injector pipes, the pump and a little support at the end of the pump. Easy DIY installation with only conventional tools.

Pierce

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #47 – July 31, 2021, 03:15:45 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 31, 2021, 02:58:39 pm

With the only a fair reliability record for the CUPS pumps, quite a few Cummins owners have changed over to the mechanical injection. As I remember, all new parts with a P pump cost about $8500 plus installation. Cummins has fitted rotary pumps, Bosch P, MW, A pumps, Nippon pumps on their engines in the past. The Bosch inline piston pumps last forever and almost never give any kind of trouble. Buying used parts, the conversion would cost under $2K
Pierce

A great idea for a DIY guy, but not for the average moho owner IMO. Once you make a change like that, no one else is going to work on it as it doesn't match the book, other than maybe a hot rod shop that understands the P-pump well.

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #48 – July 31, 2021, 03:52:45 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – July 31, 2021, 03:15:45 pm

A great idea for a DIY guy, but not for the average moho owner IMO. Once you make a change like that, no one else is going to work on it as it doesn't match the book, other than maybe a hot rod shop that understands the P-pump well.

P pumps are on many thousands of Dodge PUs with 5.9 Cummins, thousands of 8.3 in trucks. It's the most common stock OEM pump for lots of diesels before the smog engines. Once installed, it pretty much trouble free. The injectors are even cheap. Yes, diesel tuning shops love them but all the regular shops know how to work on them very well if that ever becomes necessary. And no, I would never take my Cummins to a dealer if I owned one.

Otherwise, it's a rolling roulette wheel.

My view, naturally.

Pierce

Re: Injector leak? ISC350

Reply #49 – July 31, 2021, 09:55:50 pm

There are truly some gifted FT owners, like Pierce, whose technical knowledge and hands on mechanical ability I truly respect. I suspect, tho, there are FT owners or wannabe's, who might never buy a FT is they thought they would need to wrench an engine issue...or would never know who to trust on a major engine or transmission repair. The fact is you don't need to wrench or know how to vet a mechanic if you start with a realistic understanding of what it might cost to run a 20+ year motorhome.

As I said many times here, you will NEVER spend as much money on a FT, no matter what you spend to buy (if you buy smart with the help of a qualified inspector) or keep it up, as you with the purchase price of a comparable coach of far inferior quality.

A recent article entitled, "The Cheapest Class A Diesel Pusher RV in America", mentions the Sportscoach 339DS, a 36' long diesel pusher RV from Coachmen RVs. This is the smallest diesel pusher made by Coachmen, and also the cheapest @ $200k+. Even after our purchase, replacement of virtually all major mechanical systems & appliances, a complete interior remodel, a state of the art lithium battery/Victron energy management system and this major repair, we'll NEVER end up spending what owners of this NEW coach will spend and we'll NEVER be in the shop for as long as most new coach owners are. In nearly 4 years and over 35,000 miles this 2 week repair was the ONLY time our travel has been interrupted.

Cummins CoachCare facilities are the only place I would take my engine if one was accessible to me. As I talked with diesel shops near where our problem began I was greeted by mostly blank stares when I asked about the ISC Caps fuel system. The only knowledgeable guy I talked to was an oldtime mechanic for the County road department, thanks to Brett Wolfe's suggestion, who had worked on the school system's busses in the 90's that used this engine. He knew exactly what was wrong and what was needed. He couldn't do the work himself but warned me NOT to use any local diesel shop to make this repair. He encouraged me to take the coach to Cummins who would have the parts and access to the technical knowledge to fix the issue properly. And, Cummins warrants the work for the next year regardless of mileage.

So, keep the technical and mechanical feedback coming. All of us will learn from the knowledge, some may save big bucks learning how to do the work themselves, but please help all owners, especially newbies, understand how to properly budget for the purchase of their rig and have confidence that's even if they can't wrench they CAN own a Foretravel.

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