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Topic: Battery charging (Read 2171 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Battery charging

Reply #25

I just replaced our converter/charger with the Progressive Dynamics 45 amp model. Amazon.com: Progressive Dynamics PD9245CV Inteli-Power 9200 Series Converter/.... It does come with the Charge Wizard pendent linked to on Chuck's post above. I've never been able to keep the charge voltage at the 13.2 volts float voltage with the old WFCO model. The solar controller worked OK but since it is off at night, the voltage really varies. I didn't need even 45 amps as the solar controller keeps the batteries charged rapidly each morning.

The Progressive Dynamics converter/chargers get outstanding reviews and since the house batteries would be expensive to replace, I used the Foretravel link for Amazon to make the purchase.

If you do the installation hot, it's easy to get a lot of sparks when you use the Allen wrench to install the cables into the converter. I ordered a battery switch at the same time, made a couple of cables for the in and out of the switch and then used the handy dandy hydraulic crimper to install the copper lugs. I was then able to shut off the + supply to the new converter when I installed the new cables.

The only down side is the Charge Wizard's phone cable is way too short to reach up into the coach. Read the Amazon specs on the converter and the reviews. They give a good user experience.

I use a coiled cable to run between the two lighter plugs to keep the voltage up on the engine batteries. You can see the readings for the coach AGM on the top LED and the three conventional engine batteries. Each lighter plug is fused and each end of the plugs has a 5 amp fuse so there is no danger of a fire. I unplug while traveling but if staying at any campsite, I plug both back in again.

The unit seems quite bright and charges at several float voltages before settling down at close to the advertised 13.2v. It does give a conditioning charge of 14.4v for 15 minutes once a day.

Now I have the old converter for a battery charger in the garage.

About $200 delivered for both the converter and the 12V switch. Be sure to use the Amazon link provided on the forum page.

Again, top voltage is coach, bottom is engine batteries. It's been a week or so and the voltages are stable.

Pierce

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery charging

Reply #26
I have the inverter in the bay with the compressor.
The INVERTER uses battery power to provide 110V power to the coach when it is not plugged into shore power or when the generator is not running.  When using the inverter, you must monitor the voltage on your "combined" battery bank so that it does not drop too low.

The biggest problem with having all three of your batteries tied together is that it is possible for them to be depleted to a point where you cannot start the big engine or the generator.  To avoid this situation, your coach was originally equipped with the battery isolator which separated the two battery circuits.

It is not "wrong" to have all three batteries tied together, but it requires additional vigilance on the part of the owner.  If your coach will be plugged into shore power most of the time, it probably won't be a problem.

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Battery charging

Reply #27
That coach originally had 2 house batteries 8D and 1 engine battery 8D in the same compartment. Someone apparently tied them all together. Not a good idea as that is a single bank so if one goes down they will all be down. I would figure out how it was originally wired and then correct the wiring. There should be a battery isolator located on the frame behind the left rear wheel accessible through the small door behind the left rear wheel.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Battery charging

Reply #28
Too bad the forum is B&W or you could see my red face.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery charging

Reply #29
The INVERTER uses battery power to provide 110V power to the coach when it is not plugged into shore power or when the generator is not running.  When using the inverter, you must monitor the voltage on your "combined" battery bank so that it does not drop too low.

The biggest problem with having all three of your batteries tied together is that it is possible for them to be depleted to a point where you cannot start the big engine or the generator.  To avoid this situation, your coach was originally equipped with the battery isolator which separated the two battery circuits.

It is not "wrong" to have all three batteries tied together, but it requires additional vigilance on the part of the owner.  If your coach will be plugged into shore power most of the time, it probably won't be a problem.


I got ya.  So in reality the inverter would be seldom used maybe for lights in an emergency.
Good information and thank you!
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #30
That coach originally had 2 house batteries 8D and 1 engine battery 8D in the same compartment. Someone apparently tied them all together. Not a good idea as that is a single bank so if one goes down they will all be down. I would figure out how it was originally wired and then correct the wiring. There should be a battery isolator located on the frame behind the left rear wheel accessible through the small door behind the left rear wheel.
I am with you RT.  Better to have a starting battery in worst case.
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #31
So in reality the inverter would be seldom used maybe for lights in an emergency.
Actually, in our era coaches, the original modified sine wave inverter was used to power quite a few devices.

In our coach, the original Taytronics control panel switched between two circuits.  One circuit powered the microwave plug-in receptacle - the other powered the ice maker, TVs, VCR, chandelier, (optional) Gaggeneau gas burner ignitors, (optional) blender, plus one inside and one outside duplex outlet.  The control panel allowed the owner to choose which circuit they wanted to use.  See photo below:

In the 110V electrical circuit diagram linked below, see under the NOTES notation #3:

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=3266#viewitem

Back in the day, modified sine wave inverters worked OK, although on our coach the Taytronics never seemed very "happy" running the OEM microwave.  If you plan to power any "sensitive" electronic devices with the inverter, you might consider an upgrade to a pure sine wave model.  See below for more general info:

What is a Sine Wave Inverter? – The Inverter Store

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Battery charging

Reply #32
On my 1992 U280 the start battery is on the left and the coach batteries are on the right as viewed from the picture you posted.
Harold Charlson
1992 U280 4133
Round Top, TX

Re: Battery charging

Reply #33
I removed the OEM Taytronics MSW inverter a few months ago and installed my old Trace inverter and a new pure sine wave inverter. I did have to modify the wiring at the changeover box because of the Taytronics switch. Saying that because you can't just install a new inverter where the old one was and have it work correctly.

The OEM inverter worked flawlessly since the coach was built but used a lot of juice at idle. As soon as it was powered on, the voltmeter took a dive. The new sine wave inverter goes just to the microwave and the big wall TV with the Trace powering everything else. Both are much more efficient. The Trace surprisingly so since I purchased it in 1989. It pulses ever second to see if anything is on and then turns itself on. Even when on. it does not draw much current. I still have more wiring to do.

REMOTE SWITCH FOR INVERTERS WITHOUT A PORT: If you buy or have most any inverter without a remote switch, I found a trick to run a telephone type wire and turn the inverter on or off from most anywhere in the coach. It even works on the '89 Trace inverter. Your inverter does NOT have to have a port for a plug but you will need to pull the cover to connect a set of wires to the on/off switch. I can post a DIY for inverters without a port for a remote switch. With a port, it's a no brainer plug and play.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery charging

Reply #34
I removed the OEM Taytronics MSW inverter a few months ago and installed my old Trace inverter and a new pure sine wave inverter. I did have to modify the wiring at the changeover box because of the Taytronics switch. Saying that because you can't just install a new inverter where the old one was and have it work correctly.

The OEM inverter worked flawlessly since the coach was built but used a lot of juice at idle. As soon as it was powered on, the voltmeter took a dive. The new sine wave inverter goes just to the microwave and the big wall TV with the Trace powering everything else. Both are much more efficient. The Trace surprisingly so since I purchased it in 1989. It pulses ever second to see if anything is on and then turns itself on. Even when on. it does not draw much current. I still have more wiring to do.

REMOTE SWITCH FOR INVERTERS WITHOUT A PORT: If you buy or have most any inverter without a remote switch, I found a trick to run a telephone type wire and turn the inverter on or off from most anywhere in the coach. It even works on the '89 Trace inverter. Your inverter does NOT have to have a port for a plug but you will need to pull the cover to connect a set of wires to the on/off switch. I can post a DIY for inverters without a port for a remote switch. With a port, it's a no brainer plug and play.

Pierce

What size inverter should I look for?
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #35
What size inverter should I look for?

Depends on:

What you want to be able to run (120 VAC appliance).

Size, state of charge and condition of your battery bank. Discharging below 50% SOC (State Of Charge) materially shortens battery life.

And, the inverter can not be realistically used to run high-amp loads like roof A/C.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Battery charging

Reply #36
Do a search on P. Wyatt Sabourin for inverter information. He makes the most sense. And you will save money.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #37
With only a few exceptions, an updated RV with flat screen LED TV, LED lights, etc. will require less power today than when built. Old inverters used transformers and rectifiers, were very heavy and produced a modified sine wave that while working well for lights, most TVs, resistance heating, tools, etc. didn't work well for microwave ovens and other electronic items.

They do have an advantage in that a 1500 watt OEM Taytronics inverter will work better on something like a small compressor with a high startup load.

Having said that, it's best to purchase the largest pure sine wave inverter you can afford. But since many suppliers lie, it's mandatory to read all the reviews as found on Amazon and then pick the best for your requirements.

We are 36 feet long so no washer/dryer. Our TV is 50 inches but LED so not much draw there. All lighting is LED so again, low draw. We do have two Senco 110V compressors onboard that are used to air tires and run impacts and staple guns as an example. Either the 1500 watt MSW (modified sine wave) Trace or the new 1500 watt sine wave inverter will instantly start the compressors. The pure SW inverter cuts the MW time drastically so it not only cooks faster but much less inverter time at the high output is needed to get the food cooked. But, I had to run a couple of new Romex cables to feed the MW and TV from the new inverter plus telephone cable to turn both inverters on and off. We have a Norcold RV fridge so that is not a factor in power consumption.

I'm not a fan of the converter/inverter units as I don't like to put all the eggs in one basket plus on older Foretravels, the inverter and converter are on opposite sides of the coach and would require a major wiring change to fit one of these units.

So, like Brett says, don't plan on an inverter to be able to run even one roof AC unit. While deep discharge will shorten the life of your coach batteries, installation of solar panels on the roof will keep the discharge to a minimum and you will not longer have to run the generator except for AC. If you are handy, purchasing and installing 1200 watts of solar will not cost more than $1500 for everything. Plenty of room on the roof of your U300 for even more than that.

Read as much as you can about inverters, read the reviews plus you can see a lot of inverters in action on YouTube videos.

We have had inverters and solar starting back in 1989 and on our U300 since 2008. I have posts with the sources and prices back when I did the installation. Everything still works as installed 13 years later.

Pierce



Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery charging

Reply #38
Thanks for all the info folks!
Today's project- new tranny oil cooler on my 97 F250 :(
Then back to the FT.
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #39
Before you spend a bunch of money (and time and effort) replacing your old inverter, it would be a good idea to think about how you will use your coach.  With your coach in stock factory configuration, you will only NEED to use your inverter if you do not have a shore power hookup AND you do not want to run the generator.  How often will you be in that situation?

If, when traveling, you spend most or all nights at campgrounds with 30 or 50 amp shore power connections, then you won't need a new inverter.  If you tend to camp mostly in the HOT summer months, and you don't have shore power hookups, you will be running your generator to power the roof air conditioners.  In that case, you won't need to use the inverter.

The most likely time that you would want the inverter is when boondocking in cool weather conditions where the roof air is not needed.  THAT is when you will appreciate a good inverter, AND a large capacity battery bank.  Using the inverter to power ac loads avoids having to listen to the irritating (to you and other campers) racket made by the generator.  Of course, there is no free lunch.  If you deplete your batteries running the inverter, you will eventually need to recharge them.  If you are driving every day, you can let the alternator do the recharge work.  If camped in one spot for multiple days, you'll probably need to run the generator for several hours each day, but you can do it in the middle of the day when the noise will be less annoying to everyone.

Of course, as Pierce suggests, you can always add solar to supplement the generator, but that is another subject entirely.

All I'm saying is think about how you will use your coach, come up with a long-term plan, and then spend your upgrade money where it will do you the most good.


1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Battery charging

Reply #40
Before you spend a bunch of money (and time and effort) replacing your old inverter, it would be a good idea to think about how you will use your coach.  With your coach in stock factory configuration, you will only NEED to use your inverter if you do not have a shore power hookup AND you do not want to run the generator.  How often will you be in that situation?

If, when traveling, you spend most or all nights at campgrounds with 30 or 50 amp shore power connections, then you won't need a new inverter.  If you tend to camp mostly in the HOT summer months, and you don't have shore power hookups, you will be running your generator to power the roof air conditioners.  In that case, you won't need to use the inverter.

The most likely time that you would want the inverter is when boondocking in cool weather conditions where the roof air is not needed.  THAT is when you will appreciate a good inverter, AND a large capacity battery bank.  Using the inverter to power ac loads avoids having to listen to the irritating (to you and other campers) racket made by the generator.  Of course, there is no free lunch.  If you deplete your batteries running the inverter, you will eventually need to recharge them.  If you are driving every day, you can let the alternator do the recharge work.  If camped in one spot for multiple days, you'll probably need to run the generator for several hours each day, but you can do it in the middle of the day when the noise will be less annoying to everyone.

Of course, as Pierce suggests, you can always add solar to supplement the generator, but that is another subject entirely.

All I'm saying is think about how you will use your coach, come up with a long-term plan, and then spend your upgrade money where it will do you the most good.



Very good points.  I will stick with my stock inverter for now.
Thanks for the words of wisdom...
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #41
Many of the good modern inverters also have a built in multi-stage battery charger. If you are considering upgrading the existing converter/charger (which you should do because they are battery cookers) and are also wanting a pure sine wave inverter (many modern electronics require that) then you have the option of replacing those two units with a single inverter/charger...I have one and it works perfectly...this is my third project vehicle that I've used AIMS inverter chargers on and haven't had a single failure..
Len Barron
1988 GV36 U280 3208T(250hp)/MT643
1972 Jeep Commando LS2/4L65e
2000 Chevy Express Hightop Campervan
LBZ Duramax /6sp Allison

Re: Battery charging

Reply #42
Many of the good modern inverters also have a built in multi-stage battery charger. If you are considering upgrading the existing converter/charger (which you should do because they are battery cookers) and are also wanting a pure sine wave inverter (many modern electronics require that) then you have the option of replacing those two units with a single inverter/charger...I have one and it works perfectly...this is my third project vehicle that I've used AIMS inverter chargers on and haven't had a single failure..
Nice installation.  Was it hard to combine all wiring into one location? Or did you have to?
Or should I maybe just replace the converter charger.  I did order a smart
charge adapter add on suggested by another member.
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #43
I did order a smart charge adapter...
Wait until you get the Charge Wizard - try it - see how it works.  The charger you have will probably work just fine.

Are your 3 new batteries AGM or are they traditional "flooded" wet cells (the kind with removable caps so you can add water)?

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Battery charging

Reply #44
Wait until you get the Charge Wizard - try it - see how it works.  The charger you have will probably work just fine.

Are your 3 new batteries AGM or are they traditional "flooded" wet cells (the kind with removable caps so you can add water)?


They are old style flooded with removable caps.
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #45
They are old style flooded with removable caps.

Your coach came originally with a battery box, the lower portion in your picture has deteriorated somewhat. Do you still have the top section? When covered the top portion has a vent hole which a 2" pipe  attaches to vent wet cell batteries. Pretty easy to rebuild bottom section with fiberglass but will have to be taken out to repair.
Doug W.
96 36' U270 CSGI #4946
04 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
PNW

Re: Battery charging

Reply #46
Your coach came originally with a battery box, the lower portion in your picture has deteriorated somewhat. Do you still have the top section? When covered the top portion has a vent hole which a 2" pipe  attaches to vent wet cell batteries. Pretty easy to rebuild bottom section with fiberglass but will have to be taken out to repair.
Yes I do have the cover intact.  The bottom is a little better that it looks.
1992 Silver U300 40
DD 6V92 Allison
95K miles

Re: Battery charging

Reply #47
Was it hard to combine all wiring into one location? Or did you have to?

No rewiring required, I simply removed the converter/charger completely. Plugged the new inverter in where the old charger used to plug in. Removed old inverter and used that same wiring for the new one.  The one bit of rewiring I did do was to put the refrigerator on one of the circuits that the inverter supplies (I have no idea why Foretravel didn't do that) as I always use the inverter to run my fridge while driving (unless I have the generator fired up to run roof air cond.).
Len Barron
1988 GV36 U280 3208T(250hp)/MT643
1972 Jeep Commando LS2/4L65e
2000 Chevy Express Hightop Campervan
LBZ Duramax /6sp Allison

Re: Battery charging

Reply #48
.......The one bit of rewiring I did do was to put the refrigerator on one of the circuits that the inverter supplies (I have no idea why Foretravel didn't do that) as I always use the inverter to run my fridge while driving (unless I have the generator fired up to run roof air cond.).


If FT did not put the 110v supply to the refrigerator thru the inverter on your 1988, it would have been to save the batteries from unnecessary drain.  My 1997 original refrigerator compartment had two 110v plug outlets, one wired thru the inverter and one not,  so I had a choice.  This of course applied to my Norcold, before I installed my current residential refrigerator. I connected my current residential refrigerator to the available inverter 110v outlet.  Another consideration might have been that in 1988 few rvs charged the house batteries while driving, they only charged the chassis batteries as you drove down the road.

In today's world, with higher propane cost per gallon, with more available ah house battery systems, and the many option choices we now have to charge our batteries, posibly this is no longer a necessity. 
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Battery charging

Reply #49
Driving down the road, the Norcold is on propane but when we stop at a camp site, I turn on the inverter and push the fridge mode button to AC. At night when we turn the inverter off, it auto switches back to propane. Turning on the inverter auto switches the the fridge supply 110V outlet to be hot if not plugged into shore power.

Propane at the house ranges from $.95 to $2.00 a gallon depending on the season and the market. Since we have a Suburban Propane account, we can stop at one of their locations and get the association price. Love having the choice between the two energy sources.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)