Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Topic: Tapping into the air system for toad braking (Read 1975 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #25 – September 01, 2021, 11:25:36 pm

Is there any problem with me disconnecting the spring brake line on the busted one? And it's blocked up but I'd like to remove the blocks until the parts come in(we're living in it temporarily and it's a tad shaky). Will I still be able to raise and lower? I'm guessing yes since it's a different system?

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #26 – September 01, 2021, 11:30:21 pm

There is no pressure on the spring brake release port unless you release the parking brake.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #27 – September 01, 2021, 11:51:00 pm

No, the yellow button automatically popped when I got to around 30psi, so it's engaged.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #28 – September 01, 2021, 11:53:37 pm

When the yellow handle pops out it engages the spring brake by dumping the air in that line. You have to have over 60 psi. to push the handle in to add air the that port and release the spring brake.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #29 – September 02, 2021, 11:37:25 am

I removed the back can by undoing port 30. 2 chambers on order, will be here tomorrow.

Any concerns if I start the rig and raise the coach to remove the blocks?

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #30 – September 02, 2021, 12:46:22 pm

If you still have one can on, you have a parking brake on that wheel. Chocking the coach and raising it to get the blocks out is no problem. Remember to put them back in before working on the cans again.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #31 – September 02, 2021, 01:35:04 pm

Thanks. Is it possible to drive to a shop to get fixed or is this strictly mobile now? If I could drive, is anything needed, ie clamping the lines, etc?

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #32 – September 02, 2021, 02:02:04 pm

You would not have a rear brake on the wheel without the can not a very safe idea. You shouldn't have a problem installing a new can.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #33 – September 02, 2021, 02:12:49 pm

Quote from: Jason – September 02, 2021, 01:35:04 pm

ie clamping the lines, etc?

So your airlines are also in there golden years and probably not as pliable as they were new. Clamping to seal off could crack the inner hose and start a entire new problem. Yes I would do to clear the road but would also be proactively changing that line because it may be damaged. They like all rubber products they have a life and if moved to excess will fail. That being said undisturbed may last your life time. Your results may vary.
Scott

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #34 – September 02, 2021, 02:29:45 pm

Ok. I had a mechanic suggest clamping and driving. Definitely not what I wanted to do, but wanted to confirm.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #35 – September 02, 2021, 07:41:47 pm

I would not clamp the hose scrwe the fitting out of the can and put a pipe cap on the fitting then it will hold air b

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #36 – September 03, 2021, 11:12:35 am

New chamber in hand, I got the NAPA one, looks nice, not much info on the site but it's a 2430. Hopefully I can get a mechanic to come over and swap it out today.

The manager there said something that has given me pause- he said adding an adapter on the chamber changes the way the brakes work. He took some classes on them and I suppose that is where he heard that. Any input here? I can continue what I had planned to do, move to another location besides the chamber (IDK where) or scrap this system all together and go with a non-air solution.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #37 – September 03, 2021, 11:31:00 am

Jason, I use the Ready Brake system. It comes in a Ready Brute tow bar or just a device between the coach and the tow bar. It is not invasive of either the coach or car systems. Plus it is not very expensive.

I can take my Ready Brake, my tow bar and hook my car to your coach or any other coach and have towed brakes. KISS

But it is not as elegant as Air Force One and others. But works just fine as does the others.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #38 – September 03, 2021, 11:38:20 am

Quote from: Rudy – September 03, 2021, 11:31:00 am

Jason, I use the Ready Brake system. It comes in a Ready Brute tow bar or just a device between the coach and the tow bar. It is not invasive of either the coach or car systems. Plus it is not very expensive.

I can take my Ready Brake, my tow bar and hook my car to your coach or any other coach and have towed brakes. KISS

But it is not as elegant as Air Force One and others. But works just fine as does the others.

That is really the other one I was contemplating, specifically the Hercules because I want a 10K tow bar/capacity and this is 12K. I was trying to avoid drilling into the firewall on the toad, but given this experience, I am kinda over that ....

I do have a car trailer I can use in the short term, just adds 2K lbs of trailer as well as the complications when at a campground.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #39 – September 03, 2021, 11:57:51 am

Quote from: Jason – September 03, 2021, 11:12:35 am

New chamber in hand, I got the NAPA one, looks nice, not much info on the site but it's a 2430. Hopefully I can get a mechanic to come over and swap it out today.

The manager there said something that has given me pause- he said adding an adapter on the chamber changes the way the brakes work. He took some classes on them and I suppose that is where he heard that. Any input here? I can continue what I had planned to do, move to another location besides the chamber (IDK where) or scrap this system all together and go with a non-air solution.

I would be interested in how teeing into the service port of the brake could change the way the brakes work. It would be no different than teeing into the output of the brake relay valve. The relay valve has full pressure supply going in it and the brake treadle valve throttles it. The brake can will have the same pressure with or without the tee. He could be referring to the fact that if the line going to the toad were to break, that can would have less stopping power than the other. You would not see a big pressure drop on the gauges as it would only leak when the brake was applied.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #40 – September 03, 2021, 01:37:07 pm

I talked to another very knowledgeable mechanic, he said to disregard what the napa guy said.

I am not sure about where you live, but I am having a heck of a time finding a mobile mechanic here in the Austin area. They are days out at least, if they work on them at all or accept retail work. HD truck mechanics is a great business to be in apparently!

I checked the clearance on the clamps, it clears the adapter with ease, so no clocking needed. Debating if I want to tackle this. It looks like 2 bolts to hold it on, putting the clevis on, and cutting the rod. Watching some vids, it seems there are a couple ways to measure where to cut the rod. And do you push in the parking brake when it pops out at 30 PSI so the shaft is extended?

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #41 – September 03, 2021, 06:51:46 pm

A creative toad brake that uses a removable air cylinder to press toad brake pedal, that does NOT need taping into coach air brake line.

Air hose from wet tank (tap tire filling hose) to air tank located in to ad. Nice to use quick disconnects on both ends of air hose between coach & toad.
12v 3-way pneumatic valve in toad that responds to coach brake lamp circuit by opening toad air tank valve to push brake pedal.
Pressure regulator on cylinder air line to prevent locking up toad brakes.
Coach brake lamp circuit can be wired so it does not activate toad when retarder-only is active, even if retard turns on coach brake lights.

For brake away, use brake away switch to connect toad battery to 3-way valve, keeping coach brake lamp & toad battery circuit separate with diode.

As previously mentioned, not a fan of Air Force braking system or any system that ties into coach air brake line, just to get proportional braking. Today's problem is just one of many. Also find hitch-activated pull-cable through firewall to be problematic.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #42 – September 04, 2021, 07:12:37 pm

Well finally have success on both fronts. The second Napa chamber came in this morning and I had a mobile mechanic swap out both chambers. The adapter was put on the one and all systems were good. Later, I went ahead and hooked up the Brakemaster system, it all works. A couple small leaks that were fixed by tightening the nut around the compression fitting.

Since I am invested in the Brakemaster, I am going to give it a try. I can always switch later. I do like the NSA Hercules. I learned a lot about the coach and appreciate the advice given.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #43 – September 05, 2021, 12:20:29 am

Jason, I'm happy to hear all went well with your BrakeMaster system. I originally installed as it was recommended to me by a respected tech I know. He stated he never had a "come back" on one. I've bought a couple units, and used them on several vehicles, with never a misstep. You might want to buy a spare air coupling connector, as they are proprietary. If one gets damaged by say draging on the ground or anything else, you will be glad you had a spare. ETRAILER carries them: Roadmaster Quick Disconnect Kit for Brakemaster, Price: $38.45 and in Stock
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Roadmaster/RM-921004-80.html?feed=npn&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20%7C%20Smart%20Shopping%20-%20Accessories%20and%20Parts%20-%20Maximize%20Revenue&adgroupid=78445819423&campaignid=6893256689&creative=395353250592&device=m&devicemodel=&feeditemid=&keyword=&loc_interest_ms=&loc_physical_ms=9059806&matchtype=&network=u&placement=&position=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwssyJBhDXARIsAK98ITR0kcVR0GB9aKaHRWyWL1NNCdTt0CDYhuJJ0Al9SsXkR_T5MJKjxHYaAtC0EALw_wcB

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #44 – September 05, 2021, 09:29:22 am

Barry & Cindy wrote;

"As previously mentioned, not a fan of Air Force braking system or any system that ties into coach air brake line, just to get proportional braking. Today's problem is just one of many. Also find hitch-activated pull-cable through firewall to be problematic."

So I am asking, how do you feel about the combination units traveling our public highway system with the trailer brakes tied into the tractor brakes?

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #45 – September 05, 2021, 11:10:03 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – September 05, 2021, 09:29:22 am

Barry & Cindy wrote;

"As previously mentioned, not a fan of Air Force braking system or any system that ties into coach air brake line, just to get proportional braking. Today's problem is just one of many. Also find hitch-activated pull-cable through firewall to be problematic."

So I am asking, how do you feel about the combination units traveling our public highway system with the trailer brakes tied into the tractor brakes?

That is an apples and oranges comparison. The semi trailers have their own air tank, relay valve and check valves to the tractor. They can even be manually applied without the truck brakes. You may have seen skid marks on freeways where trailer brakes locked up because of a broken air line. The truck still has brakes and the skid marks go to the shoulder where it finally parks. But as for the the fact I see no problem tying into the coach's air system for toad brakes personally.

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Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #46 – September 09, 2021, 10:11:36 pm

I mentioned to James T. at FOT that I was thinking of installing an air brake system on my toad a couple of years ago. He gave me a drawing on where to attach the air line. See atch drawing. I never completed the project; still using the Brake Buddy and hating it.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #47 – September 09, 2021, 10:39:52 pm

I am not certain but, that is probably a DOT approved method.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #48 – September 09, 2021, 10:41:29 pm

I called MOT and asked James J where to tap into it and he said they use the brake chamber. I will say that the Brakemaster has worked well so far on our inaugural trip, which has included some mountains.

Re: Tapping into the air system for toad braking

Reply #49 – September 10, 2021, 08:29:24 am

Quote from: craneman – September 09, 2021, 10:39:52 pm

I am not certain but, that is probably a DOT approved method.

It does eliminate cutting and splicing a brake line. That's for sure.

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