Help needed in Miami

Topic: Help needed in Miami (Read 1995 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #25 – November 17, 2021, 11:19:45 am

Still dead in the water, only clicking after changing that cable

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #26 – November 17, 2021, 11:22:44 am

What is voltage while attempting to crank-- check at chassis batteries and also at starter?

Boost switch change anything?

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #27 – November 17, 2021, 11:26:18 am

Here is the pic again
Breaker next to aqua hot is 120
Here are also a couple of pics for the positive post that the batteries are connected to

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #28 – November 17, 2021, 11:28:30 am

Brett

Battery voltage at 12.3 when attempting to crank

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #29 – November 17, 2021, 11:30:23 am

Mike I'm looking behind the dash kick panel can you be a little bit more specific as to what I am looking for

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #30 – November 17, 2021, 11:34:49 am

Brett when we hit the ignition power at the starter is almost 0

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #31 – November 17, 2021, 11:35:11 am

They should be hanging down right at the floor level next to the breaker panel. Should be 2 black boxes about 2" square and 1" thick. they generally are on the left hand side. I don't have a pic. of what you are looking for.
Mike

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #32 – November 17, 2021, 11:36:44 am

Mike I have almost 0 V at the starter when the ignition is turned on

Before the ignition is turned I have my 12 V but I lose it when the ignition is turned on

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #33 – November 17, 2021, 11:59:30 am

Did you load test the batteries separately when you had them unhooked? Sure sounds like a possible bad battery or 2. Where you have voltage but not amps..

Mike

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #34 – November 17, 2021, 12:02:10 pm

Mike all batteries were disconnected and checked individually and came in at about 12.8 each

I checked the voltage on the starter as directed by Brett I had 12.8 V or a little higher and when the ignition was turned on it dropped to zero

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #35 – November 17, 2021, 12:04:40 pm

Again, boost switch (adding house battery bank) does what to voltage readings?

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #36 – November 17, 2021, 12:05:07 pm

Mike are these the two black boxes in the kick panel that you're talking about

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #37 – November 17, 2021, 12:07:54 pm

Brett with the boost switch on and the ignition in the off position I have 12 V at the starter
when we go to turn on the coach it drops down to zero

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #38 – November 17, 2021, 12:11:04 pm

Quote from: Lt403 – November 17, 2021, 12:05:07 pm

Mike are these the two black boxes in the kick panel that you're talking about

Yep
But with these symptoms of loss of voltage those are most likely not the problem.

Mike

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #39 – November 17, 2021, 12:12:30 pm

Those readings (voltage at the starter drops close to zero when starter engaged but voltage at the chassis batteries only drops a little-- 12.3 VDC) suggest either there is a cabling issue OR the starter is frozen. Be sure to check the negative at both engine and battery end.

BTW, if it is a frozen starter and it is able to take voltage down that dramatically, it will get VERY hot VERY quickly. May help with diagnosis.

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #40 – November 17, 2021, 12:25:24 pm

I feel the part of the starter just below the solenoid "warm" compared to the rest of it

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #41 – November 17, 2021, 12:39:50 pm

Can you put a socket on the crank bolt to see if the engine turns.

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #42 – November 17, 2021, 12:47:15 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – November 17, 2021, 12:12:30 pm

BTW, if it is a frozen starter and it is able to take voltage down that dramatically, it will get VERY hot VERY quickly.

If the starter is locked up the new battery cable that was just installed will also get hot...especially at the end connections.

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #43 – November 17, 2021, 01:07:52 pm

I think Brett and others are correct. I know for a fact the voltage should not drop to 0 when you try to crank. I have have starters short out before and rarely will they drag the voltage to 0. Even with a severe internal short you would still read 1-3 volts on the meter. And as others have said, the cables and where ever the short is will get REAL hot REAL quick. I think once you figure out where you're losing voltage, you will find the problem.

If you have a heavy set of jumpers, you can try jumping from the batteries directly to the positive starter lug. The key does not have to be on to run this test. If the engine starts cranking, the starter is good and the problem is in the cables or solenoid. If you get a heavy spark and no crank at all, the starter has failed. If you get a light spark and the starter tries but turns slowly or just bumps over, you probably have a 1 or more failed connecting cables (between the batteries) or 1 or more batteries failing under load. You do need heavy jumpers to run this test and good connection to the batteries.

TOM

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #44 – November 17, 2021, 01:24:34 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – November 17, 2021, 11:59:30 am

Did you load test the batteries separately when you had them unhooked? Sure sounds like a possible bad battery or 2.

As far as I can tell (from reading above), this test has not yet been done. If it starts looking more like a bad battery, then this is the gold standard test.

Requires all start batteries being disconnected from each other, AND a heavy duty load tester. Each battery must be tested individually. If a tester is not available on site, then you'll need to cart the batteries to a battery shop or auto parts emporium where they have a suitable load tester. See below for example:

https://www.harborfreight.com/500-amp-carbon-pile-load-tester-91129.html?_br_psugg_q=load+tester

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #45 – November 17, 2021, 01:31:27 pm

Quote from: OldManSax – November 17, 2021, 01:07:52 pm

I think Brett and others are correct. I know for a fact the voltage should not drop to 0 when you try to crank.
TOM

Tom beat me to the keyboard, and I can only add that if the engine is locked up, there is a very good chance that the starter cable will visibly jump when the starter solenoid closes. But that is unlikely, and having the transmission in two gears at the same time doesn't matter because of the torque converter. More likely is a bad starter BUT all of the cable connections must be checked including jumping over the starter solenoid.

FWIW my most recent experience with a bad starter solenoid was with the Studebaker and was confirmed with a jumper cable.

FWIW II 35 or so years ago when we were dating I saw the jumping battery cable on Lynn's '64 Valiant convertible. It turned out to be a broken detent in the four-speed transmission, so I had Lynn bring the parts to where I worked at the end of the day and I made a new set of unobtanium* detents.

*I keep a small stock of this rare metal.

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #46 – November 17, 2021, 01:55:19 pm

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – November 17, 2021, 01:31:27 pm

*I keep a small stock of this rare metal.

I have noticed a lot of old guys, including me, and most of the smart young guys, horde as much of that metal as they can afford.

TOM

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #47 – November 17, 2021, 02:41:25 pm

At home now.

First, I was taking the voltage readings incorrectly on the starter. In the end I was getting 12 V at the starter on the large terminal and once the ignition was turned on I was getting 12 V on the smaller wire. Hope i'm explaining myself clearly.

We were hearing clicking at the starter but nothing else was happening.

I put a meter to each battery individually but did not load test the batteries.

Unfortunately I had to leave at 1 o'clock because of other commitments this afternoon.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in and tried to help me.

I did learn from this experience.

Frank

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #48 – November 17, 2021, 02:46:26 pm

Frank,

Do you recall what voltage between the large lug on the starter and good ground did when key turned to start/tried to start from the back?

BTW, thanks for you assistance in helping a fellow Foretravel owner.

That is what the Foreforum is all about.

Re: Help needed in Miami

Reply #49 – November 17, 2021, 02:53:51 pm

Brett
I think it was about 12 v maybe dropped to 11.8

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