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Topic: Alternator, Isolator or both? (Read 3073 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #20 –

As noted in Chuck's excellent Delco install post, replacing a LN with a Delco requires a new isolator with an excite terminal. The Delco "I" terminal is for an indicator light. Attaching ignition excite directly to the Delco "I" terminal will permanently damage the alternator.

I have installed and would recommend either the 200 amp Delco 28SI (with brushes) or the brushless 240 amp 40SI - more expensive but heavier duty and longer life. Forum members have installed both with excellent results.

Also note that the Delco S "sense" terminal is equivalent to the LN "DUVAC" terminal.

Here are a couple of isolators with excite terminals that will work with a Delco.

EATON's Sure Power 24023A-IB Multi Battery Isolator | Waytek Wire
 Amazon.com: Victron Energy Argo FET Battery Isolators 200-2AC (2 Batteries...
 

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Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Vossx2 –

Call Foretravel and get a direct replacement shipped here? 


Is running the generator with the boost ok when our house batteries are lithium?

Once you identify the replacement you want, suspect it will be reasonably easy to find.

No idea on the LI compatibility question.  But, you are not necessarily looking for a "can they live happily forever together".  More important is whether they can be happy for the hours you need to drive to get to a more convenient location.

Is your current inverter/charger programmed for LI?  If so, the more important question is what harm will you do for those hours to the chassis  batteries.

Again, I have zero experience with LI, so will defer to those with deeper pocketbooks. Just want to make sure that the correct questions are addressed.

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #22 –
Got my Delco Remy here,"Qualitypowerauto.com" 909-794-1600,they have the pulleys in stock and will install.

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #23 –
Ordered a replacement alternator from Foretravel. They sent one without an adjustable voltage regulator.

Just because you order from Foretravel doesn't mean you get the original or one with the same abilities.

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #24 –
I replaced my isolator and all relays before they died. Alternator, and starter with a gear reduction one. Very happy

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #25 –
Ok.  We will continue with our originally scheduled program (travel) using the boost....

This is what I plan to have sent to Angleton:

Delco Remy 28si, 200amp, J Mount - Quality Power Auto / $345 & $25 for pulley
Victron Energy Argo FET Battery Isolators 200-2AC (2 Batteries 200 amp) - Amazon
Cole Hersee 24213 12V 200A Continuous Solenoid (2 of them?) - Amazon

Am I missing anything? Breakers and resettable fuses were mentioned....
Also what are y'all using to label wires? We generally use tape and a marker, but it not great.

-Christine
Navigator and Credit Card Controller

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #26 –
Quote
Am I missing anything?

Not strictly related to your issue, but if you want to replace the other components on the isolator board you could do the relays and circuit breakers.

Circuit Breaker: Bussman CBC15B (15 amp) - About $5 each (Amazon or any auto parts store)
Relay: Standard RY 115 - About $11 at auto parts store
Solenoid: The other Cole-Hersee solenoid

Also, if you're feeling froggy and your isolator board is still located out by the rear tire, you could consider moving it to the under-the-bed location as Foretravel did on later models. One job always turns into three!

jor

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: jor –
If you want to replace the other components on the isolator board you could do the relays and circuit breakers.
Good suggestion - do it all at once and never worry about that panel again!

Check your wiring diagram to verify the circuit breaker "size" (15 or 20 amp).  Or, look on the old breakers for ID markings.

Another source for relays.  Always handy to have a few spares in your parts drawer.  Many uses!

Amazon.com: 10 Pack Bosch Style 5-Pin 12V Relay Switch [SPDT] [30/40 Amp] 12...

The Cole Hersee 24213 is good for replacing both solenoids.  It will look slightly different than the aux start solenoid you have now, but will work in exactly the same way.  Requires one additional ground wire to hook it up - just like the other (old) boost solenoid you have now.

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Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #28 –

Christine, you can get clear heat shrink tubing. I use that and a post it note (or part of one) and write on it with a marker.  Works great.  I tried making a label with my label printer, looked good until heat from shrinking the tube turned it black.

See
XHF 3/4 inch (19mm) 3:1 Waterproof Clear Heat Shrink Tubing Marine Grade...

And Yes, a good supply of Bosch style relays are very useful.  Amazing what you can do with them.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #29 –
Got the 200 amp Delco type (WAI brand) alternator installed. Only connected the DUVAC wire to the S post, didn't know what to do with the other little wire marked KEY SWITCH. Intended to install Argofet (200Amp-2 bank) isolator but just realized that it's a no-go with LIFEPO house batteries. How do we proceed? We have solar to charge the house batteries and intend to keep battery banks connected at the boost solenoid.

This stuff isn't intuitive for me but I ain't skeered! Still, I'm aiming for a simpler solution
 -Jimmy

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #30 –
Key switch would go to the IGN terminal on the alternator= any 12 VDC positive that is hot only when the ignition is on. 

No idea if your new alternator needs that one of if you can remove it.

What does the wiring diagram that came with your new alternator say?

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #31 –
When you say "Delco TYPE alternator" that raises the question of how closely it copies the Delco design.  If it is exactly the same as the Delco 28Si then it should connect the same way.  If it is different on the back, then you will, as Brett says, need to follow the instructions that came with it.

The Delco 28SI alternator does not require a "hot with ignition" EXCITE wire.  There is no place to connect one on the Delco 28SI.

The only small wire that should be connected to a Delco 28SI is the "always hot" SENSE wire.  It goes on the small "S" post.

With the Delco 24SI and 28SI alternators, B+ voltage on the output stud is necessary for initial turn-on (excitation).  See the link below for Peter's info on connecting the Delco 28Si alternator and how to make it work with a battery isolator.  (I see Peter was typing down below the same time I was)

DelcoRemy 28SI alternator

Why won't the ArgoFET isolator work with your battery setup?  It is the perfect isolator to use with the Delco 28SI.

Are you are concerned about having two different types of batteries?

If you keep the two battery banks connected together with the boost solenoid, how is that different than using the isolator?

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #32 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Key switch would go to the IGN terminal on the alternator= any 12 VDC positive that is hot only when the ignition is on.
The Delco 28SI does not have an ignition excite terminal. Connecting ignition excite to the "I" terminal will permanently damage the alternator.

The only way the Delco will work in a 2 battery bank isolator setup is with an isolator designed for use with a Delco - with an ignition excite terminal - like the ArgoFET. Delco will not work with the OEM diode isolator.

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #33 –
 No diagram came with the alternator. We will request one.

This was on the page for the isolator we bought:

Question: The wiring diagram seems to indicate that this can only be used with three lfp batteries. can one of them be a lead-acid starting battery ?
Answer: This device is NOT recommended for LFP batteries at all (the batteries shown in the wiring diagram are non-specific battery templates), as it is not current-limiting nor does it offer the intelligent multi-stage charge profile recommended for LFP batteries. It is strongly advised that you do NOT charge an LFP battery directly from an alternator, as the LFP does not offer the internal resistance of an FLA battery and as such can easily burn out your alternator.
We strongly advise against connecting any LFP battery bank to this device; instead, you should use a battery-to-battery charger with current-limiting capability. If you are using this device to connect FLA or AGM batteries, however, it will work very well; please make particular note of the model you select, however, as you posted this question specifically on the 200-2 model, which only supports 2 batteries, not 3.

Regards,
-Justin
Mobile Power Pros / Bay Marine Supply

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #34 –
Here is the Delco tech bulletin that explains how to use a Delco alternator with a battery isolator system.

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #35 –
This is the alternator we bought. 200amp/J Mount
Quality Power

Note: Jimmy has actually written a post on his account! His first! Waiting on approval:)

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #36 –
Unfortunately this note on that web page is misleading, probably written by someone unfamiliar with a Delco alternator. Note should also say "with isolator designed for use with a Delco."

"NOTE: Can be used on applications with self-exciting, DUVAC (remote sense), and/or ignition triggered OE systems. Also has a tach terminal."

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Vossx2 –
Got the 200 amp Delco type (WAI brand) alternator installed.
This is a Chinese copy of the Delco 28SI. I would expect the operation also replicates the original Delco 28SI.

Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #38 –
Quote from: Vossx2 –
Got the 200 amp Delco type (WAI brand) alternator installed. Only connected the DUVAC wire to the S post, didn't know what to do with the other little wire marked KEY SWITCH.
If you decide to go ahead and use the ArgoFET isolator, then you would connect the wire marked KEY SWITCH to the small ENERGIZE connection on the isolator using the supplied crimp connector.  That way, when you turn the ignition key to ON, power is supplied to the ENERGIZE circuit in the isolator.  This internal circuit routes battery voltage to the ALT INPUT post on the isolator.  The alternator, seeing B+ (battery voltage) on that post, is EXCITED into action and starts charging.

IF your 28SI clone alternator works like a genuine Delco 28SI, and IF you do not use the ArgoFET isolator, then you will need to devise another way of suppling B+ (EXCITE) voltage to the alternator output post.  This would normally be accomplished (in a single battery application) by connecting the alternator output cable directly to the start battery.  With this setup, it would still be a good idea to leave the SENSE (Duvac) wire connected to the "S" post on the alternator (although it would not be mandatory).

You can work with what you have on hand...but you need to carefully think it through.  Any questions just ask!

NOTE:  DO NOT connect the KEY SWITCH wire directly to the alternator output post or cable!  This will not work.  The alternator will attempt to send charging amps through the small gauge wire back to the ignition switch.  At some point in that circuit, magic smoke will escape.

Magic smoke - Wikipedia



Re: Alternator, Isolator or both?

Reply #39 –
Thanks everyone for sharing your wisdom. I'll continue with the isolator upgrade and parts replacement on the isolator board. If this Chinese alternator burns up, Oh Well! I'm considering adding B2B chargers in the future. We'll research the forum for answers first but when my head starts bleeding from excess head-scratching, we'll be back.

Jimmy