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Topic: Solar Question for Gurus (Read 5749 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #40 –
Chuck please keep us posted, I'm interested as well.

General question, can you get used solar panels, ie santan, and add micro inverters to any/most? 

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #41 –
Update:  Received our second bid yesterday.  This one was done remotely by a salesman in Houston.  He works for TriSMART - a regional company with good ratings.  Solar Company Texas - TriSMART Solar
I know we have some Forum members in the TX gulf area, so if you know anything about this outfit, good or bad, let me know.  Below is his proposal.  Items different from the first bid (Reply #31) shown in RED.

System size: 14.22 kW
Estimated 1st year production:  26,157 kWh  =  2180 kWh per month  =  72 kWh per day
(36) REC Alpha 395 Pure Black, 132 half-cut "heterojunction" cells, gapless technology, 21.3% efficiency
(36) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters
(1) Encharge 10 plus (1) Encharge 3 Storage System modules (AC coupled batteries, 13.44 kWh useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry)
Enpower Smart Switch
IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module)
Enlighten mobile app
Unirac ground mount racking system
All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required)
25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Gaurantee

This system is projected to provide 105% of our average monthly power usage, based on last year's (2021) numbers.  In theory, this should allow us to zero out our utility bill each month, assuming we have a plan with net metering and unlimited roll-over of credits.  This type plan IS available in our area.  :thumbsup:

So, several improvements over my first bid.  Bigger battery!  More battery is good by any measure.  The REC half-cut panel is leading edge solar technology, with some "theoretical" advantages over a conventional 60 cell panel like the LG that was listed in my first bid. The REC is pure black, which is seemingly a big deal to customers who mount the panels on the roof in view of their neighbors.  Since I won't even be able to see the front of my panels from our house I couldn't care less about this aspect.

https://cdn.myced.com/images/Products/ZZ0000/ZZ3058/00000/ZZ305800017_DS.pdf

Got another salesman coming by today for my third bid.  Then it will be decision time.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #42 –
@Chuck & Jeannie I don't want to be the Richard on this thread but can you give us a ball park price on this setup?  If your not comfortable can you pm me?  Im also wanting to check into the tax credit on a system like this.  I need to know if when your filing your taxes and your using the short form less then $25,100 in deductions.  Is the credit separate and applied to the purchase. 

Does the $2.75 per watt that Roger posted sound about right with the kit and installation? 

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #43 –
I will post the final price on whatever final configuration we end up with.  Then everybody can tell me how bad I got screwed.  :headwall:

I am finding that pricing is very, shall we say, fluid with these solar companies.  They throw around all kinds of  "discounts" and "rebates" that seem to change each time they open their mouths.  And then when you talk about financing, it gets even more fun.  They have a multitude of financing options, rates, payment periods, etc.  So right now I don't know what my proposed system will cost - it is still up in the air.

The way, in general, they price out the system is as follows.  They quote a really BIG system cost, then they subtract out all the discounts and rebates to finally arrive at a "financed amount".  That is your bottom line cost for the system.  You can finance the whole amount, or pay a cash down payment to reduce the financed amount, or pay the whole amount in cash.  Your choice. 

The 26% fed tax credit is based on the financed amount.  You apply the credit to the bottom line of whatever tax form you use.  If the credit is larger than your tax owed for the first year, you can carry over the excess credit to following years, until it is eventually used up.  NOTE: I am not a tax expert!  Always consult a tax professional for guidance.

Roger's ballpark price of $2.75 for a 14000 watt system would come out to $38500.  My bids so far are coming in a lot higher than that.  BUT, his price does not include a battery.  Batteries add a really big chunk to the total cost.  So it's hard for me to compare directly to his number.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #44 –
My cost at $2.75 per watt is very likely to be quite a bit less than Chuck's will be.  We have no battery component for overnight use or backup in case of power outages which are rare and short where we live.  And this was about 4 years ago.  We benefited from a 30% Federal Tax credit, a rebate from our local electric coop utility that was about 12% of the total cost, a buyback of excess power by the electric coop at retail rates, and some generous considerations from the solar instller.

Our is a roof top system which only allows orientation and angles of the roof and the house relative to the sun and the space available for panels. And we live in the woods. We did a lot of strategic tree trimming and removal for production reasons but some shade is inevitable. Chuck's will be a ground based system (something we cannot do in our township) in open spaces which allows better orientation for performance and as much space as they need for panels.

Every installation will be different based on where you are, where you can put panels, local buy back programs and assistance, finance options and much more.

The opportunity to significantly reduce our future electric costs and increases has worked for us. It may work for you as well. We hope this works for Chuck as well as it has for us.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #45 –
Eddie, you can only be a Richard if your name is Richard!

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #46 –
Let me say that I don't consider myself to be a solar guru.  I know something about it because I did my homework and have installed solar systems on my own home and on my coach. I have some direct experience, that's about all.

Our system was financed at the total cost minus the cost of permits.  It was in 2 parts, one a short term zero interest balloon payment loan equal to the federal tax credit (30% of the total cost) payable in 18 months and the balance was a 10 yr 2.9%.  Cheap money, we paid it off in 4 yrs. 


By the way, your motorhome is considered a second home by the IRS and is a capital asset.  If you make improvements they increase the basis value of the asset (initial cost + improvements).  When you sell it, probably for a lower price than the asset value, you incur a capital loss which can be used to offset other capital gains.

So if you add solar panels, a solar charger or two, batteries for storage (think lithium), and all of the other components involved in the improvement to your coach, the total cost qualifies for the Federal tax credits, and increases your basis value for the asset (coach)  just as if you had put them on your house or in your back yard.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #47 –
I've been stuffing my old brain with solar info, trying to understand the ins and outs of planning a solar installation.  LOTS to learn!  :o

Along the way, happened on the chart below.  Should be interesting to anyone planning a solar install on their coach.  Where do you anticipate spending most of your camping time?  Location will have a definite effect on solar output...which is why everyone wants to go BIG on the panel number/wattage.  Of course, affording BIG is another matter...

NOTE:  In case it is not obvious, the darker colors mean more "productive" sunlight per day = better performance from solar panels.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #48 –
Enphase has a excellent free tool on their website.  It allows you to plan a solar system (with storage) based on geographical location and power requirements.  The cool thing is you can fine tune the system based on what exactly you want to power in a "off grid" situation, by adding and subtracting from a large list of items.  This might even be helpful when planning a solar system for your coach.  Will give you a rough idea what different electric devices require, power wise.

Fun to play with!  :thumbsup:

Enphase Energy- Power your house with Solar and Storage | System Estimator

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #49 –
After playing with the design tool mentioned in post above, I have decided to raise our sights and shoot for employing two 10 kWh Encharge storage modules in our proposed system.  I have advised the 3 companies who have already submitted bids of this change.  Waiting to see what they say...

I'm thinking about starting a GoFundMe campaign to finance this project...I'm sure our loyal Forum friends would be happy to contribute.  8)

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #50 –
So you are going to spend more on this then what you did on your coach?

When I had a new 2001 boat people asked me what I paid for it.  I always told them "More then I paid for my house." 
Never was asked about the last 3 FT but if I was I would give the same answer since still living in the same house since 1979

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #51 –
Chuck,

I am proud of you, you engage in the same type of projects I do, the ones I think are nice to do regardless the economics.

I am rebuilding a dilapidated cabin on top of a mountain sitting on 60 acres that I bought to help out a financially strapped relative.
I needed the place as badly as a fourth leg, when people ask me what I am doing there I say: "Building a hunting cabin". The place has lots of wildlife, I do not let my dog run free around it on visits because there are frequent cougar sightings.    And I have no interest whatsoever in hunting.

Your project will cost north of $ 50 K, at your present electricity cost of $ 2500/year it will only take you 20 years to break even.

But the non tangible advantages are priceless, I could shoot a cougar If I desire so.

Onwards and forward.

Regards

Klaus

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #52 –
Just dont use the Go fund me site. They take like 10-20% off the top for there services. 

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #53 –
Quote from: turbojack –
So you are going to spend more on this then what you did on your coach?
That's not too hard, actually.  We got a really good deal on our coach (in 2013) - only paid $30k thanx to some very kind Forum members who cut us a break.  Of course we've got a bit more in it now due to some "upgrades" and voluntary improvements.

Money ain't worth what it used to be.  The whole value to price relationship seems warped.

We were looking at the Ford Lightning E-pickup as a possible replacement for our Chevy Bolt (which cost us $20k out-of-pocket).  The price on the Lightning will supposedly be from $40k to $95k plus tax.
NINETY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS for a pickup truck!  And yet they have already booked $100 reservations for the first two years projected production run.

I figure might as well spend the money before the value goes to zero, like it routinely does in some 3rd world countries.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #54 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
I figure might as well spend the money before the value goes to zero, like it does in some 3rd world countries.

My wife says lets spend it before our kids do.  I have been doing a pretty good job at following her instructions.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #55 –
No kids here - one less thing to give me (more) gray hair.  :))

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #56 –
Solar for RVs is not like planning for a home. No way to compute payback $. Just fill as much of the roof with panels as you want, get a controller to handle the total amps with some extra for efficiency and expansion, that has an inside remote meter display. Major planning done...

One choice what solar output voltage to use, either with series or parallel wiring. Use large enough cables from panels and down to controller. Another is how to mount panels to roof. Tilt & track the sun is nice but with sun always moving during each day, just leaving everything flat is usually more practical.

Solar allows one to minimize generator time, but often battery storage is the limitation.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #57 –
Update:

We should have our final system configuration pinned down by this weekend.  Still clarifying a few details with the installer.

Meanwhile, I am reading up on the Enlighten monitoring program used by Enphase.  It looks pretty useful to me (a total neophyte).  See below (if interested):

MyEnlighten Introduction | Enphase



Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #58 –
Well, we signed the contract, so it's a go.  :o    :help:

We picked a small local family owned solar installation company over the big national outfits.  Our salesman (one of the owners) bent over backwards trying to earn our business.  His bid was considerably less than the big outfits, and he gave us every break he could on the prices.  He has a long list of happy local residential and commercial customers.  They are a "Certified Installer" for Enphase and for LG (which is required in order to receive full manufacturer warranty coverage).  I think we made the right decision, but only time will tell.

What we are (hopefully) going to end up with:

System size:  15.22 kW  (See solar production analysis file linked below)
Estimated 1st year production:  27,624 kWh  =  2302 kWh per month  =  77 kWh per day
(40) NeON 2 LG380N1C-A6 panels, 60 cell, 380W, 21.0% efficiency
(40) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters
(2) Encharge 10T Storage System modules (AC coupled batteries, 20.16 kWh total useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry)
Enpower Smart Switch
IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module)
Production and Consumption monitoring meters
Enlighten mobile app
IronRidge aluminum rail ground mount system
All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required)
25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Guarantee

And, as promised, I will reveal the cost of the system.  Let me preface by saying the "Solar" is a very hot commodity in TX right now.  Lots of interest in residential installs affects pricing and availability of materials.  We are very likely "higher priced" here than some other parts of the country.  Even so, I think we came out pretty good on the bottom line.

List Price for complete system:                                                                                          77,092
Less Oncor Rebate (8% paid directly to installer by TDU):                                              (5,928)

Cost to Customer  (cost basis - used for figuring tax credit):                                          71,164
Less 26% Fed Tax Credit:                                                                                                  (18,503)

Final "Out-Of-Pocket" cost to customer:                                                                            52,661

Less cost of 2 storage modules ($8,000 each, average installed price in TX)              (16,000)

Approximate cost of "grid-tied" solar system without storage:                                        36,661

Solar cost (36661) divided by system size in watts (15220) equals price per watt:        $2.41

If there is continued interest in this project, AND assuming we have Moderator blessing, I'll return with some photos of the installation process as it proceeds.  If not, we can let this thread RIP.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #59 –
Congratulations Chuck. Once it is in you will see the benefits immediately.  Ours was installed late fall as we went into winter. It was underwhelming for the first few months.  You have to look at things on an annual basis to have a clear picture of what is going on.  After our first season we trimmed and removed more trees (we live in the woods) to improve performance. It helped.  It is likely dusty where you are, ask the installer about a panel cleaning process and frequency.  Where we are it is snow removal in the winter. 

Let the sun shine!