New tires and other surprises

Topic: New tires and other surprises (Read 5048 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #100 – July 28, 2022, 01:33:59 am

Bob it does sound like they were peddling parts to me. Slide pins if removed every other year would be happier im sure. The corrosion on my pins were in the exposed unused portion. But the Chrome next to the pits may be rolled up?
Manual says to replace if any pits are on pins. I polished out some and replaced some thinking every year I would replace a couple of the worse ones. I use a 6" metal polishing scotch brite wheel to dress up mine. But I'm not recommending because it is deviating from the manual. Ive never rebuilt those calipers and would follow what Chuck recommends. Sure is nice having a circle of smart people to draw off information from.
Good luck
Scott

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #101 – July 28, 2022, 07:57:16 am

Looking at that piston boot it don't look to be overheated and burnt up. From the earlier word from the shop I was expecting the caliper to look a lot worse but that one sure don't look bad and shouldn't need anything but a minor repair kit.

Mike

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #102 – July 28, 2022, 09:28:41 am

Quote from: dsd – July 27, 2022, 02:56:57 pm

"Cage the springs before removal." BUT it is much easier if you release the parking brakes before you cage. They are almost to the fully caged position with parking brake released IE air in spring brake. Then set the parking brake to release air from spring brake after being caged. You can do by skipping this step but you will have to wrench them the entire distance against the spring.
Scott

Scott? We don't tell Bob this until after he's caged the second can. This is supposed to be a learning experience for Bob.

Art

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #103 – July 28, 2022, 09:36:14 am

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – July 28, 2022, 07:57:16 am

Looking at that piston boot it don't look to be overheated and burnt up. From the earlier word from the shop I was expecting the caliper to look a lot worse but that one sure don't look bad and shouldn't need anything but a minor repair kit.

Mike

It may just need slide pin service and cleaning. May be nothing at all wrong with it. I do like the helper springs to prevent brakes dragging (again caused by dirty pins)

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #104 – July 28, 2022, 10:23:58 am

I have to agree with Mike and Scott those calipers look good to me but I'm a newbie when it
comes to disk brakes.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #105 – July 28, 2022, 01:08:17 pm

Bob and I made the caliper tool and got caliper apart,he is rebuilding now, he will have pictures.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #106 – July 28, 2022, 01:17:37 pm

Yes, you're right. It may not need a complete overhaul however, since I already have the parts and a good place to do it with with an excellent partner to work with, might as well do it. Either. It'll last for another 160,000, mi or more, I'll mess it up even worse and have to buy a new caliber. Nobody was pushing parts on me. It was just the fact that they were going to replace the whole calipers on both sides and I decided to rebuild them. Since I've never done that before and didn't know what was involved, I bought the rebuild kits and that's what's in it. Sure, I probably could have just cleaned the pins up and put everything back together and it might have been fine but might not have been and I don't really want to have to do this ever again.
But points well taken.
I did have to crank down on that spring break quite a bit so lesson learned!
To get the piston out of the bore , I bought a tool from harbor freight, modified it with a metal cutting wheel, shaped it after heating it with a torch and it worked great. Not as good as the tool that narrator supposedly has, but David aka John 44 looked for it online and couldn't find one. Craneman had an excellent idea as well with using a small turnbuckle and fashioning a u-shaped piece, but this worked fine and it was $8.99 at harbor freight.
And besides one of these days one of you guys are going to be in this position. Might be in 20 years from now, and somebody's going to look back on this thread and say oh that's the way you do it, or that's one way to do it anyway.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #107 – July 28, 2022, 01:20:05 pm

Lol. And it also reminds me of the time when I was going to replace the generator motor mounts and do some work on there and everybody told me I had to replace the thrust bearing . That turned out to be almost the end of the genny .. luckily I'm half Irish so I'm lucky. Course. The other half of me is Ukrainian.... Us Ukes aren't always lucky...

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #108 – July 28, 2022, 02:08:25 pm

Can you post a picture of the tool after modification?

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #109 – July 28, 2022, 02:51:18 pm

The last one is it.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #110 – July 29, 2022, 09:59:03 pm

Heavy rains last night and this morning here in Drummond Tennessee so I didn't get started until late. My job for today was to remove the axle. I started working on the nuts behind the studs first so I could separate the axle and the ventilated disc. I think I got four off. My first issue was since the nuts were on the back side. I forgot that I needed to turn it the other way so I was trying to tighten one for a while instead of remove it until I figured that out. Half an hour in the air conditioning and fans blowing in a liter of water. Later I was back out there and it was able to break every single not loose from the studs. Imagine my surprise when as I continued to back the nuts out The corrosion on the ends of the inner studs and I had to switch to smashing my one and 1/8 in harbor freight. Chinese made wrench with a 5 lb hammer. Even though I put plenty of PB blaster on and I even clean the threads as best as possible with a stainless steel brush, there was enough corrosion and junk on the ends of the studs that I could not get the nuts off easily. Tomorrow is more rain and I'm hoping to get the rest of those nuts off. If I could pull the axle tomorrow that'd be great, but at the rate these nuts are going. It takes me about an hour per nut and there's 10 of...

No pictures today Really that were worth posting.
Oh and then a tree fell 10 to 15 ft in front of the coach. Well it wasn't a very big tree. It would have done some damage if it had connected. Fortunately it did not. Rain is in the forecast for the next couple days So don't think I'm going to get much done .

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #111 – July 29, 2022, 10:23:10 pm

You are going to have to pull the hub off anyway so wait until you have it off and use an impact gun for those nuts.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #112 – July 30, 2022, 05:55:38 am

Tried that with a swivel and won't work,rotor is right in back of the nuts,can barely get a rachet in there,just enough clearence
to get the nut off the stud,could use a 1 1/8 rachet wrench.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #113 – July 30, 2022, 07:24:52 am

Quote from: Journey, Roam, Explore – July 29, 2022, 09:59:03 pm

My job for today was to remove the axle. I started working on the nuts behind the studs first so I could separate the axle and the ventilated disc. The corrosion on the ends of the inner studs and I had to switch to smashing my one and 1/8 in harbor freight. Chinese made wrench with a 5 lb hammer. Even though I put plenty of PB blaster on and I even clean the threads as best as possible with a stainless steel brush, there was enough corrosion and junk on the ends of the studs that I could not get the nuts off easily. Tomorrow is more rain and I'm hoping to get the rest of those nuts off. If I could pull the axle tomorrow that'd be great, but at the rate these nuts are going. It takes me about an hour per nut and there's 10 of...

Rain is in the forecast for the next couple days So don't think I'm going to get much done .

Last things first, take some much needed down time. It gives you time to think.

The heart of the problem. You need two gasses, oxygen and acetylene, some gauges, hoses and a couple of valves to control the flow of the gasses. Plus a smaller nozzle than you might think. And a source of ignition. Place the tip of that bright blue flame, on the flat of one nut until you have a red hot spot that lasts once you remove the heat. Then apply the wrench.

Some spoil sport will be along shortly to tell you that the end of the wrench will become very hot in use.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #114 – July 30, 2022, 07:35:02 am

Thanks but no thanks,were doing fine.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #115 – July 30, 2022, 09:55:39 am

I don't have that kind of a torch, but I do have a propane torch that gets pretty hot and I did apply heat to one of the bolts and it made it a little bit easier to turn but not super better. So far. The best thing I found was just hammering away at the one and one eighth inch box and wrench. At first I would didn't wear ear plugs but after my ears started ringing of course I put some in.
Again, appreciate all input and will post more pictures as this progresses.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #116 – July 30, 2022, 10:09:01 am

Quote from: Journey, Roam, Explore – July 30, 2022, 09:55:39 am

I don't have that kind of a torch, but I do have a propane torch that gets pretty hot and I did apply heat to one of the bolts and it made it a little bit easier to turn but not super better.

If you had access to an oxy-acetylene set the difference in heat delivery is like night and day. On a difficult nut, the entire nut eventually ends up being red hot. But the minimum needed is heating the area of one wrench flat red hot. This makes the nut just a little bit larger on the inside and is usually enough to spin the nut off with surprising ease. Vigorous cleaning with a wire brush, as you have learned, is a big help, as is an overnight soak with penetrating oil.

I've tackled the wiring on the Studebaker and have made good headway.* So much so that I want to keep moving forward. But, and it took many years to learn this, I need to rest** for a couple of days before I begin making mistakes.

Art

* The body shop that repaired the collision damage swapped the headlights so that the dual filament bulbs are the inner pair.

** Current resting blood pressure is 85/58, active is 110/78. So it is what it is, but I'm avoiding chest pains.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #117 – July 30, 2022, 04:23:30 pm

FYI,axle socket needed is 4 inch,6 point,will post a Mac tool part number.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #118 – July 30, 2022, 09:09:51 pm

Art those blood pressures are fine as long as you feel okay.

Made excellent progress today. David and I got the rest of the nuts off the back after hammering and like crazy and the 10th nut came off with a 3/4 inch drive ratchet. Once we got that off we started tackling getting the actual axle out. The axle came right out without any issues. Once you remove the eight nuts that hold it in place. There's a nut, a lock washer and then a cone shaped device that is about half inch long. Maybe I'll post a picture of it tomorrow. If I remember. I don't have the gasket for the end of the axle but I went to O'Reilly's and bought some gasket making material as the one that I have in the coach is for high temperature with metal sandwiched in between and cutting it up was not fun and it was cutting my hands so that ain't going to work.
Once the exit was out I was presented with a dilemma that I forgot about. The two nuts that hold everything in, that the bearing rests against. I did not have the proper tool for that. I've seen on the internet where people took them off with a chisel. We tried that and that was no bueno. Next thing was to try to find the proper size tool which was interesting because while it looked like it measured 3 and 7/8 in it was an actually a 4-in socket. Nobody had them in stock around here. The RV repair guy down the road did not have one but a neighbor told us about a truck guy down the road. So off we went. James was his name and he looked at me square in the eye and says I do not lend my tools out. I said yes sir. I understand. Meanwhile, David took him in the back and they were talking about this Fleetwood 40 ft RV that he's working on replacing the entire engine. That's a different story for another day, and the next thing I know David's got two of these in his hands. One three and seven eighths and one 4 in. Really high quality ones too. Back to the shop. We got the nut off and it was on pretty tight. I needed to use an impact driver and when I looked up the torque rating for it it said 300 ft lb. So now I know why it was on so tight. That nut backs up against a piece of metal that locks that nut in place and then behind. That is another spacer ring that has holes through it That mates with the first nut. We haven't put those on yet. We'll do it tomorrow. David put all the nuts that we took off the back of the studs in a acid bath and they came out looking almost like new and he put those on and those get torqued at 100 ft lb. So to sum it up the caliper is rebuilt and waiting to be installed tomorrow, the new rotor is on and the bearing is back in and the preload is set, or I have to do is make a new gasket for the axle end. Put it back on and we could load the caliper back on with the new pins and brake shoes tomorrow. Hopefully. The temperature is been better today so things were a lot smoother.
Bob

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #119 – July 31, 2022, 05:21:37 pm

Raining all day pretty much and I feel a little tired. Did manage to get the axle in. Didn't have the gasket for the end so I made one.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #120 – July 31, 2022, 08:50:29 pm

I must have read something incorrectly . The 2 axle bearing lock nuts are very low torque on most Timkin style tapered wet bearings. The first nut sets the endplay and the lock ring and keeper nut set the inner nut solid. I set my endplay for these by the book at just a little, Maybe 002- 005 thou.
The fronts get snugged to zero plus and tiny backed off. About zero .

The only time that the lock nut gets set tight , is when a spacer is between the hub inner races, preventing damaging the bearings by over torquing .
Please verify your assembly per manual before you move the bus, if you set the bearings tight. And if you did, remove the outer bearing and peak at the rollers and cone ,making sure that you have not flat spotted anything.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #121 – July 31, 2022, 08:59:53 pm

Bob installed the inner nut and spacer plate to where it was by the turns,we torqued the outer nut to 300 ft lbs. and it ended up in the same position where it was when we started,Bob got all the specs from Meritor.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #122 – July 31, 2022, 09:32:02 pm

Quote from: John44 – July 31, 2022, 08:59:53 pm

Bob installed the inner nut and spacer plate to where it was by the turns,we torqued the outer nut to 300 ft lbs. and it ended up in the same position where it was when we started,Bob got all the specs from Meritor.

The outer 4in nut? with the fold over lock tabs? 300 Sounds like a lot.

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #123 – July 31, 2022, 09:44:37 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa48Ed_ikB0
250 -300 looks right on this video. I set my endplay the same but have never set the skinny nut that tight .

Re: New tires and other surprises

Reply #124 – August 01, 2022, 11:29:48 am

David and I just got back from taking the 4-in socket back to James the truck guy that lent it to us. Awesome dude. We were talking about just this thing. Sometimes he says there's a sleeve between the inner and outer bearings, and then you do torque the inter nut tight. But on ours it was no sleeve. Per the meritor manual, torque the first nut down to 200 foot pounds then back it off to set the bearing while rotating the hub then then I forget what else it said... But for craneman and I believe that this is right because it wound up in the exact same place as the nut was when I took it off, Mark where it is, take it off counting the revolutions of how many turns it took to remove which was 11 . I did that. The nut wound up to be in the exact same spot as I was previously. I did still twerk it to 200 lb and then backed it off to the same place while turning the hub. When we put the spacer on that locks that nut in and then the tabbed spacer before finally torquing that last nut in, wound up in the exact same spot that it was originally. So I'm pretty confident that it's on properly. James, the mechanic confirmed that.

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