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Topic: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system (Read 15398 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #20 –

I am beginning to once again research and plan for a macerator toilet  to replace both the Sealand opus magnum 3048 toilet and the vacumn generator in the basement.  Would like to get it accomplished between Jan and July at the latest. Have funds in place for toilet and pumber labor where needed.

For anyone who has had the Opus up (removed), does the tile go quite far under the toilet? The Opus is a 4 bolt mount, and the replacement macerator toilet 2 bolt mount. I will need to research drilling the tile for the new mount holes without breaking tile if it extends under.  Both toilets use 1/2" fresh water feed, 1.5" back discharge.

The replacement toilet will be a Dometic Masterflush 8740  white (bone not readily available), with flush handle, not remote flush panel. The foot print is VERY close in all dimensions to the exsisting. Have not picked the source yet.

12 gauge wiring is present from existing, and 20 amp breaker in basement serving the toilet/12 gauge.

As part of the basement mod, I just ordered: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CSN272RW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 
The existing grommet is hardened from age.

I have not yet figured out the basement pumbling mod to remove the vacumn generator. Pretty sure I will hire a pumber for it.

Any opinions on wheter or not the Macerator and vac generator would work together, if I do toilet first then vac generator removal?  (i think it would).




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Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #21 –
Quote from: AC7880 –
Any opinions on whether or not the Macerator and vac generator would work together, if I do toilet first then vac generator removal?  (i think it would).

I'd reach out to a marine service vendor with this question, especially someone like Environmental Marine.  Dometic/Sealand is unlikely to respond given they are more B2B.  I'm not sure if you can interface the vacuum generator's vacuum sense if a macerator toilet didn't provide it, plus the macerator toilet pushes from the toilet outlet and expects minimal resistance, where the vacuum generator pulls and needs to have a good seal in the toilet to pull vacuum against.  The two would need to be coordinated or the plumbing in between would either contain pressurized waste OR the vacuum generator pump would run indefinitely.

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #22 –
Also, a residential plumber won't have a clue about VacuFlush or macerator toilets.  You'll want an RV or marine tech familiar with both systems.

You might want to ask the conversion question on a Winnebago board.  I recall from reading iRV2 that a fair number of WGO floor plans use VacuFlush toilet systems.

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #23 –

Going ahead with this project (as long as the source I ordered the macerator toilet from today (weekend) actually does have it in stock). (they did).

Dometic MasterFlush 8700 Macerating Toilets for Boats and RVs 

The replacement toilet will be a Dometic Masterflush 8740  white (bone not available), with flush handle, not remote flush panel.

Pieces parts for plumbing in the bay:
Amazon.com: Calvana 2-Pack 1-1/2" RV Rubber Grommet (12483), RV Water Tank... (old one is hardened, will remove abs pipe for cut and gluing).  Edit: I did not use this. Too hard working in mainly blocked 5" space above black tank. Used plumbers silicone grease on old original gasket.

90 degreee turn 1.5", with proper connector for the white sanitation hose in pic:  90 degree Bend Kit, 1.5" - Marine Sanitation & Supply One end transition cement to black ABS, other end into sanitation 1.5" hose .  Edit: did not use the 90. Did use the smaller adapter hose conversion piece.  Used  in ABS 180 degree into the 1.5" sanitatation hose.

In the plumbing pic, the black ABS will be cut back, the 90 degree cemented (chemical welded) on, white hose attached.  I can easily support it over the black tank at the transition to open space.  Not enough room to work over the black tank to make transitions there, though I may give it a shot. Edit - used a abs 180 degree from home depot instead.

I will have toilet  up and running first, with white bay sanitation hose into a bucket to make sure it works(water only) before I cut the piping and remove the vacum generator.

As mentioned above, there is 12 gauge wiring (hot and  ground) at the current toilet with 20 amp resettable breaker. I will add an additional blade 20 amp fuse at the control box for new toilet.  Already have 1/2 inch water supply and 1.5" discharge at current toilet. 

Edit: the only PVC actually used was the conversion small piece to 1.5" OD sanitation hose connecter.  The 90 PVC was not used.  Found a Home depot ABS 180 to use.

More pics above.


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Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #24 –
Quote from: AC7880 –

In the plumbing pic, the black ABS will be cut back, the 90 degree cemented (chemical welded) on, white hose attached.

Black is ABS, white is PVC.  Waste plumbing is normally done with all ABS.  There is a special adhesive (transition) that you can use to join them IF it's a non-pressure situation (the two cannot be chemically welded together, so it's a weaker joint).  Not sure if the macerator pump in the toilet makes it a pressurized system, but I'd hate for you to find out after the fact that the use of PVC causes a problem.

In a regular building situation, it's against code to glue them.  You have to use a mechanical (no hub) coupler, but again I don't know if this is okay under pressure if it's created because of the macerator.

Here's a good explanation:  Connecting ABS To PVC Piping: What Do Home Inspectors Say?

I would strongly advise getting all ABS plumbing parts for this project.

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #25 –
 The macerator pump used in Dometic toilets delivers a flow rate of 3.9 gallons per minute.

If calculation is correct, 1.5" pipe times 3.9 gpm = 18.38 psi. Gallons Per Minute to PSI Calculator Online

This one says 3.9  GPM  with specific gravity sewer water of 1.4 (max) = 5.46 psi (but no pipe diameter mentioned).  GPM To PSI Calculator – Convert Flow Rate Quickly – This to That Calculator

Oately ABS to PVC green transition cement is my plan (with PVC purple primer as well).  These cements are intended for use in cementing transition joints between ABS and PVC materials in non-pressure applications only (25 psi (170 kPa) or less). Oatey® ABS To PVC Transition Green Cement | Oatey

The issue is that connecting to the black 1.5" ABS is outside diameter apprx 2". The white sanitation hose is 1.5" inside diameter.

In the white pic below is a dometic product converting from ABS 2" (apprx) outside  diameter to slightly under 1.5 inch outside diameter for the 1.5"  ID hose to slip over. The product pictured is white and my assumption is that means PVC.

Once the green Oatey cement is dried, I "could" add a layer of JB weld around the abs to pvc transition. Edit: I had JB weld on hand so reinforced the outer connection of the ABS to PVC connection. Doubt it was needed, but 3 minute job.

From article linked: The ABS to PVC connections with purple primer were as strong as the PVC to PVC connections with purple primer, if not stronger.

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Michelle –
No more duckbills to replace every 3 years (I would guess the macerator system doesn't use them)

They do have them. When I had my toilet apart I replaced them after 9 years since I had the toilet apart.

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #28 –
Ahhh.  The Turbo Turd 3000. 
I remember it well!  Actually, it gave us very few issues.  But it would always be my preference to have a direct drop situation.  NOTHING kills a good time faster than having the commode go sideways!

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #29 –
I'll post before, prep, and after photos.

Control box will go in hamper behind toilet
  Toilet should arrive Thursday. Ups Ground out of New York. I just ordered it this weekend.

Inside before pics

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #30 –

More items ordered in advance:

180 degree 1.5" U for basement plumbing.

https://www.homedepot.com/pep/NIBCO-1-1-2-in-ABS-DWV-180-Degree-Hub-x-Hub-Return-Bend-Elbow-C5879/100347877?clickid=0bCW53SGKxyKRE5QXuxjq1NJUkswL63WxV%3AS080&irgwc=1&cm_mmc=afl-ir-2003851-1420157-EdgeBingFlow

Picked up a couple extra feet of 12 gauge stranded red and green wire (hot and ground) in case needed from existing wiring to control box. edit - it was needed).  Control box itself uses red hot, black ground.    Also a short 20 amp fused 12 gauge wire.  Already a 20 amp resettable breaker in basement, just a redundant fuse to the control box.

2 feet 1.5" sanitation hose flexible for inside, in case needed versus existing. Edit - it was needed, but 1' enough in my case.    Existing sanitation hose does not bend easily, and might be too short.  New toilet sanitation discharge will go from verticle to rear discharge under hamper.  Edit: the delivery box included a 90 for this - but it did not work out as detailed later).
 Dometic/Sealand | 1 1/2" MaxFlex Hose (per Foot) | 306341116 - Environmental... 

Existing toilet 4 bolt to floor, new 2 bolt to floor. Drill bits tile: Amazon.com: KURSTOL Masonry Diamond Drill Bit - 10pcs 1/4"-1/2" Concrete...

Clamps for sanitation hose, basement and inside: Amazon.com: Roadformer 1.5" Worm Gear Hose Clamp - SAE 24 Size, Full...

As fulltimers we want the least possible downtime for this change. I'd rather have leftover / un-uneeded parts than downtime.  We are in a small town with an smaller sized Ace hardware.

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Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #31 –
Before project photos, basement. 

Saw here in our Escapees co-op park I used to cut the ABS pipe.

Limited height (apprx 5") with lots of obstructions (hoses, pipes etc) in basement where removing old ABS pipe and inserting new pipe. (bottom pic)

Approx 19" of abs pipe and 1.5" sanitation hose in the limited height part of basement above the black tank (to left) and grey tank (to right) (pic 2)

You can just see the sanitation hose behind the white wire tie, and the drop into blank tank is behiind the first drop, back where I put the yellow foam for location. (pic 4)

Better pic of sanitation hose start postion (with clamp on it), and drop into black tank behind that (where yellow foam is). (pic 3)

Pic of ABS and sanitation hose leaving above tank area into more open space. (pic 5)

This is the rest of the abs piping. sanitation hose, and vacum geterator. All will be removed that is in this pic. (pic 6_)




Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #32 –
The old plumbing in post immediately above is what concerned me most about doing this project.  I spent a bunch of hours figuring the solution, planning, and getting all materials in advance so no dead ends on install day.  Only a small hardware store here.

Next pic will be "most" of the plumbing solution to replace everything in the post just above.

The drop pipe into black tank is not inserted into the grommet. 1/4" will be exposed when fully inserted.

The open end of the abs 180 degree turn will have the fitting to adapt to 1.5" inch ID sanitation hose.

The middle part of bottom pic is the adapter to glue into the ABS.  Purple primer on the white part, then  green transition cement on both  is the plan for now to glue the adapter.

The 180 will be on top of grey tank to left of "wall" in pic 5 above. May put a foam pad under it.

"Likely" will have to cut the ABS mess in the open area to pull the rest out for limited space area.

Then just cutting the sanitation hose to correct length (I have a hose cutter up to 1 5/8) 

edit:  go 14" on straight pipe in pic not 12"



Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #33 –
Install day plan:
Bleach mix through toilet into plumbing and vacum generator.

Turn off water to toilet (outside bay)

Service mode toilet to let vac generator suck everything out and push as much as possible into black tank

Power off to entire vacuflush system (toilet/vac generator), then pull power connector in basement off vac generator

Pull old toilet out, clean all around, run wiring to masterflush status sensor around the corner and up to where vacuflush display panel is now. Edit: no status display with flush handle version of masterflush - and not needed.

Install control box in hamper (location already chosen), run cables / wiring out rear discharge hole in wood

Use provided template for new toilet exact postion (did 'nt use, had to adapt offest).  Drill new mount holes

The existing 1/2" NPT water supply line is plenty long to reuse (used new hose
that came with masterflush)

Plan the new discharge hose and mount to toilet

Mount toilet

Outside remove white sanitation hose from vac generator, place into bucket

Test flush twice before cutting old ABS plumbing in basement (in case have to remount vac toilet to solve some problem)

Remove old basement abs, and install new ABS pipe/connect trimmed sanitation hose

Remove vac generator (10 minute job)

Lots of details and prior planning. Fulltimers, want it all done in one day with few issues along the way. I decided NOT to hire help. New toilet and old approx 68 ppounds each to get in and out stairs will be fun.

One more "just in case" part ordered. Not 100% sure of the the other one.  Dometic/Sealand | Custom Hose Adapter | 385320017 - Environmental Marine 



Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #34 –
Looking good ... thanks for all the pictures and updates!

When you pull the old toilet (in case you never have), the zip ties in the floor mounting holes were OEM.  They were there when I removed the toilet to change the lower seal and one of the linkages.  In fact I may have added a couple of more to get the base to cinch down, no one wants a wobbly base :D

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #35 –
One function we will lose is full tank toilet shut down system.

The vacuflush has a full tank sensor that stops the toilet from flushing.  In seven years plus, we have only hit that full tank shutoff 2 to 3 times when boondocking or in parks with electric and water but no sewer drop.

Dometic sells a optional full tank sensor system for the Master Flush macerator. We will not get it. No access to top of tank to add it to black tank, hassle running wiring, and some people have had issues with false system shutdown and clipped the wires.

I had added See Level Garnet tank `monitoring in the past, one display in basement by dump valves, one inside coach.

  I will replace one of the two monitors with blue tooth capable Garnet BTP-709. Same size display, just some wiring change right at monitor, so easy change.  Introducing the All-New 709-BTP7 – Garnet Instruments

BTP-709: Available for both iOS and Android devices, the app enables users to access real-time tank levels, set customizable alerts for when tanks are too high. 

We only use  fresh, grey, black, and battery functions. We will just ignore the alt and water pump switch on the new monitor. We will set alerts via blue tooth app for fresh, black and grey tank levels. 

Existing monitor to replace:

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #36 –
For anyone in the future doing this conversion, these two 1.5 hose adapters (1.5" OD for the hose end) are exactly the same.

If using all ABS except for the hose adapter, buy the single adapter instead of  the 90 degree and 2 hose adapters.

90 and two adapters:  90 degree Bend Kit, 1.5" - Marine Sanitation & Supply
Single hose adapter: Dometic/Sealand | Custom Hose Adapter | 385320017 - Environmental Marine

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #37 –
Pic 1" control box and wiring harness(s)

Pic 2: back of master flush after I changed discharge  from bottom eject to rear eject Edit: had to change back to bottom discharge, details in later post

Pic 3: in the box were fittings for bottom discharge, rear discharge, and 1"/1.5" santitation hose connections.  Pic includes  the "duck bills" (one included and set for bottom discharge as delivered).

 Same exact duck bill as used in Vacuflush.  I have 4 on hand which were for future maint on the vacuflush, so I have 5 total. We are set for many years.

Pic 4: I "thought" a status display would be included for the masterflush to replace the vacuflush staus display pictured.

  Not included in box - optional seperate order item.  Not required since we chose the flush handle version and did not do the tank full seperate purchase.

I will blank  out the vacuflush status display  in the next week.




Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #38 –
To change from bottom discharge to rear discharge takes 2 adjustable water pump pliers (joint pliers).

The duckbill sits between these 2 white 1.5" fittings pointing down.

Unlike the vacuflush,  anything passing  through the duckbill has been liquefied by the macerator,  so blockages extremely unlikely. 

Edit: due to location of the discharge connection on the Foretravel, leave it bottom discharge, buy a 90 Degree 1.5 inch hose connection. Then cut a few short sections of sanitation hose to use for hookup.



 

Re: Macerator toilet system to replace entire vacuflush system

Reply #39 –
Thanks for all the details and pictures ... quite the undertaking  ^.^d  With all the parts on hand the real fun part is next !