Another starting problem

Topic: Another starting problem (Read 2877 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #25 – February 25, 2024, 09:15:14 am

Quote from: John44 – February 24, 2024, 12:57:06 pm

Chuck,got some progress,did that procedure ,replaced with new breaker,same thing happens when you turn key the one turn
to the right but when you go start position for the few seconds before the solenoid cycles the start solenoid near the isolator
clicks,this was not happening before.will trace from there.
Hans,to your question,not yet.Took all the ground wires at the bottom of the front panel area that are on the ground lug and cleaned and put back.

John44, this is a belt and suspenders check but first things first:

Have you put a voltmeter on the start batteries and had someone watch the voltage while you try and turn the engine with the starter?

Art Joly

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #26 – February 25, 2024, 10:20:50 am

Sent you message,thanks.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #27 – February 25, 2024, 05:21:32 pm

Jumped the starter from the main cable on the starter,B1 to the starter solenoid,had the starter solenoid wire off,turned over but
kept on turning when I removed jumper,had to disconnect battery cable,did'nt start because fuel valve not open,after that with
the start solenoid wire still off when turning the key still get the solenoid cycling,have to figure out what"s going on with that.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #28 – February 25, 2024, 05:33:42 pm

Sounds like starter solenoid sticking, is the circuit breaker still tripping with the wire removed from the solenoid at the starter?

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #29 – February 25, 2024, 06:09:08 pm

Yes,will try and figure out that part next,wonder if this starter is the type that disengages after a certain RPM?

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #30 – February 25, 2024, 07:01:59 pm

Not that I know of on the starter.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #31 – February 25, 2024, 07:28:49 pm

Quote from: John44 – February 25, 2024, 06:09:08 pm

Yes,will try and figure out that part next,wonder if this starter is the type that disengages after a certain RPM?

The ring gear will disengage the starter pinion when the engine starts. The motor itself will spin until that happens or the battery runs dead.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #32 – February 26, 2024, 08:43:45 am

Thought about this last night,the large relay cycling starts when you turn the key to the first position,the red lights on the dash
come on and I can hear what is probably the vacuum pump,after about 5 seconds the prcess repeats,this tells me something in
that wiring group is causing a problem,will work on that next.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #33 – February 26, 2024, 06:48:06 pm

If you have em around, I'd be inclined to take the lithium batteries out of the mix and try starting on 2 lead acid. Makes me wonder if the heater grid is triggering some low temp protection or something. Just spitballin' here but might be worth a try.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #34 – February 28, 2024, 09:52:22 am

Going over start relay today trying to keep sane,ignition relay still cycling.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #35 – February 28, 2024, 10:33:51 am

I believe your problem is the hold in winding of the starter solenoid is bad. There are two windings
in the starter solenoid. A pull in winding and a hold in winding and with the hold in winding gone it
will cycle.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #36 – February 28, 2024, 11:18:47 am

The starter worked when hotwired,I have the small wire to the starter solenoid removed and ignition solenoid still cycling when
key turned to first position,keep thinking every little bit helps.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #37 – February 29, 2024, 08:57:51 am

Update:Have been working from diagram B-2126 from reply13,(Have sure start 24023A installed for a few years)got the
ignition relay to stop cycling by removing the wire from the second post counting from the left,the aux start relay clicks when
turning key to start position but no voltage in or out from wires B25 and B26,I have the direction sheet for the isolator,will
remove all wires today and test per the sheet to eliminate this as a problem.Another thing am thinking about is maybe the solenoid on the starter is getting week per Old guys post.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #38 – March 01, 2024, 09:47:34 am

Dave, if the aux starter solenoid is clicking when key is turned to start position, but starter is not spinning, then it sounds like your problem is from the aux solenoid back to starter.

When aux clicks when key is turned to start position, then you should show a 12 volt output on the terminal that B25 is connected to on aux solenoid. If it is not showing any voltage when key is held in start position, then either the aux solenoid is bad or the voltage source to the power input of aux is faulty.

If B25 is showing 12 volts, and starter is not spinning, then B25 wire which runs from aux solenoid to starter solenoid needs to be checked. So test this wire and ensure it's showing a 12 volt signal where it connects to main starter solenoid. If you have 12 volts when key start is held, and starter solenoid does not engage, then sounds like you have a bad starter solenoid.

Check the other main terminal on aux solenoid to make sure it has power at all times. It connects from solenoid to the isolator via B26RD wire. On this same isolator terminal is wire B12 RD which goes to one side of the Boost solenoid. From there it runs to the starter main power lug via wire B5000. This lug on starter is then tied to positive of battery, and this is how both solenoids are powered. Check these connections but remember they are always hot with direct connection to battery.

Good luck, I know finding these electrical demons can be frustrating.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #39 – March 01, 2024, 09:59:41 am

That will be my next step,some of the wires on the diagram are not the same as mine so is a little harder.thanks for the help.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #40 – March 02, 2024, 05:27:15 pm

Installed new aux start solenoid,solenoid works but I have no power from the B 26 wire,my B11 wire does not have power and it does not go to the coach batteries,tried to find another diagram for my coach but could not find one,have had this wiring setup for a few years and has worked fine and did;nt change any around,will be tracing wires tomorrow.The coach battery side of the isolator has voltage but the start battery side has no voltage(terminal 2).Need to find out where my b11 wire gos on my coach.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #41 – March 04, 2024, 12:09:27 pm

Still tracing the B11 cable traced to toward the front of coach,does not go to start battery per diagram,will try and get a diagram from Foretravel.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #42 – March 04, 2024, 01:18:42 pm

Recently I had a power problem with my front windshield shade. While standing in line for the dump site my radio was having an issue so I reached in to correct it and by accident displaced one of the wires to the shade. I went crazy trying to find why the shade wouldn't work when all I really needed to do was look at my first messing around in the dash. Found my problem with a displaced wire. The more I did the harder it would have been to find the problem so sometimes it's better to just sit back and think about what cause the problem originally.
Per our phone conversation David I would definitely check with the truck mechanic in your neighborhood.
He seemed pretty knowledgeable. I don't really have any other suggestions as electrical stuff is not my forte. Sounds like a wire is off somewhere and you just need to find it. Use the electric wire tracer to figure out where that wire goes. It wouldn't surprise me if it's where your house batteries are.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #43 – March 04, 2024, 05:18:57 pm

Tested the Shure power 24023 isolator per their instruction sheet,you test it with ohm meter on the diode scale from different
terminals,the isolator failed according to the sheet,their wording is "a good isolator will show current flow" and a good isolator
will show no current flow,looking to verify their wording here,from what I read current flow would be continuity,if that is the case then mine failed most of the checks and with the way all the wiring is connected that may be my problem,what ya'all think?

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #44 – March 04, 2024, 06:17:11 pm

Also easy to test with just a voltmeter and very easy with the isolator installed in the coach-- takes less than 2 minutes.

Center lug is from alternator B+ terminal, so should show around 14 VDC with engine running.

The outer lugs each go to a battery bank (chassis and house). With a functioning diode-based battery isolator, they should each show about .7 VDC less than the center lug. Yes, this assumes that the batteries are not so deeply discharged that the alternator output can not achieve full voltage.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #45 – March 04, 2024, 06:18:20 pm

Good diodes should only allow current to flow in one direction. On the isolator, current should only flow from the ALT post to the two BAT posts. If current flows "backwards" then the diodes have failed.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #46 – March 04, 2024, 06:32:00 pm

Like I said ,of the six tests you could do they all failed,when it called for continuity I had none and when it called for no flow I had
flow,did it with 2 different meters with same results.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #47 – March 05, 2024, 12:18:40 am

Your prior two posts explain fairly well what you need to check for BUT amperage is not voltage. You can easily test with your digital volt meter by checking then swapping leads to see nearly open. You are checking ohms range and or diode setting. Then go to voltage with the engine running and look for the .7 voltage drop from engine side to output too battery. If you have a cheap HF load meter you can load the output side and check voltage under load. Will be more than .7 volts but should be within that between in and out during load. Under load will revile if you have hi resistance across isolator
Coach wont start trouble shooting (Battery)
https://www.harborfreight.com/100-amp-612v-battery-load-tester-61747.html Best 20$ for troubleshooting

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #48 – March 05, 2024, 12:31:32 am

All I can check is what the instruction sheet says to check with the engine not running and those checks fail,the problem is
the engine will not start,been working well over 2 weeks to get it to start.

Re: Another starting problem

Reply #49 – March 06, 2024, 08:50:45 am

May have found problem,made a pictoral diagram of my isolator panel and marked wires,have a triple 000 cable on the house battery terminal of the isolator which has NO POWER,traced it to the top area of the basement,this has got to be a power supply from the house batterys,my house battery cables go thru the top of the battery compartment,positive to the big fuse and negative
to the shunt fron the magnum charger,another red cable goes to the generator starter,all 3 of these cables go thru a hole in the wall up near the air compressor,somewhere past this hole must be a junction where the cable to the isolator connects,all
ideas welcome,(the cable from the isolator is marked B11,which does not match the wiring diagram).

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