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Topic: Time to go over going down steep grades,  (Read 1474 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #25
Speaking of Jakes and retarders, how many know that Clessie Cummins was not only the founder of the Cummins Engine Co. but also invented the Jake brake? He also had 33 other patents.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #26
Has anyone here or heard of electric trailer brakes getting burnt up because of the retarder activating the brake lights? This was a concern of mine so I disconnected that feature. I just felt I didn't want to be replacing trailer brakes due to retarder activation. But towing a 9,000 lb trailer would seem to contribute to the retarder temps going up. I'm now thinking replacing trailer brakes should not be a concern over retarder temps. Steep grades can be very stressful. I have used a few different techniques to keep speed down and have learned to just go slow. The Allison trans won't up shift under deceleration so overrev is a concern. All these mechanical systems have the possibilities of failure so these situations have my utmost attention. Jim.   
Jim and Dona
2002 U295 36'
Lily, blue healer. Our fury person
Manx mid travel Ecotec turbo
2022 Bronco badlands Sasquatch
Trail 90 and 110cc

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #27
Some have wired a dash toggle switch that optionally prevents retard from turn on brake lights. Additional advantage is cruise control does not turn off on slight highway dips when joy stick is not in off position.

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #28
Does anyone have info/diagrams on the toggle used and how it was wired to optionally cut out the brake light for the retarder?
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #29
I use an adjustable inertia based brake controller as i assume most do.  Braking is braking so even if it's the retarder, you're trying to decelerate so some level of trailer braking is appropriate. The trick is how to set it.  With a pickup truck (or any typical tow vehicle) the recommendation is to get up to about 30mph and manually apply the trailer brakes only and set them so they are just on the verge of lock up.  Of course that is easier said than done with the coach since i can't really see the trailer wheels. In any case i generally set them on the lighter side and figure any braking assist is helpful. I do want them to engage with the retarder and if i find them running too hot i will simply dial them back a little bit.
George Mann
2002 U320 #5934
2017 Rubicon
2013 BMW GS
Waterford MI

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #30
To Fourdayoff, I install diodes to keep the retarder from activating the trailer brake controller. Or you can install a separate brake light switch that only does the trailer brake controller.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #31
I put in separate air switch for the trailer controller so the trailer brakes only come on with the
coach brakes. 
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #32
To Fourdayoff, I install diodes to keep the retarder from activating the trailer brake controller. Or you can install a separate brake light switch that only does the trailer brake controller.
That's what I did. Retarder never operates trailer brakes. Stepping on the brake peddle operated trailer brakes. On my coach retarder and brakes both operate cooling fans on hi also. Additional parasite loads do add up and again more is better 

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #33
That's what I did. Retarder never operates trailer brakes. Stepping on the brake peddle operated trailer brakes. On my coach retarder and brakes both operate cooling fans on hi also. Additional parasite loads do add up and again more is better
Scott, this is what I have and I'm wondering if the extra 9,000 lbs pushing on the coach contributes to higher retarder temps. Maybe replacing trailer brakes would be better. Jim. 
Jim and Dona
2002 U295 36'
Lily, blue healer. Our fury person
Manx mid travel Ecotec turbo
2022 Bronco badlands Sasquatch
Trail 90 and 110cc

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #34
I would think a lower gear would be better as on a long hill you could completely toast your trailer brakes.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #35
I would think a lower gear would be better as on a long hill you could completely toast your trailer brakes.


Yup, and higher engine RPM also means that the water pump turns faster, so coolant circulation through the transmission cooler is increased.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #36
I would think a lower gear would be better as on a long hill you could completely toast your trailer brakes.
Peter, this was my thought in disconnecting the retarder activating the brake lights but am I now causing more retarder heat? Also I've had complaints from WS6 Keith following me about running up on me with no brake lights while slowing with just retarder. 2 issues I'm contemplating. Jim. 
Jim and Dona
2002 U295 36'
Lily, blue healer. Our fury person
Manx mid travel Ecotec turbo
2022 Bronco badlands Sasquatch
Trail 90 and 110cc

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #37
Check these out to keep retarder from turning on brake lights sometimes. Let us know if you need more info: ----------- Add a dash switch on the wire from main retard-relay mounted on dash 12v breaker panel in front of copilot chair to retard brake light relay. Or add the switch on this retard brake light relay's wire to air brake switches. Our coach is different, as the air brake switches and retard brake light relay are mounted on front panel in street-side front compartment. Switch is VERY handy to keep cruise control from turning off on highway dips when retard joystick is not in off position. Dip causes throttle to move to idle position allowing retard to come on, and at bottom of dip throttle will accelerate coach turning off retard, if cruise control is still active. ------------ We put in a dash switch to optionally not turn brakes lights on when retarder is active. We did it for freeway driving to keep retard from turning off cruise control. If driving on cruise with joy stick not fully off, and the highway goes down even a small hill, the throttle goes to idle position, retard will kick in and when the highway goes level or starts to climb again, we used to unexpectedly find cruise turned off. With the new retard/brake light switch, we can prevent cruise from turning off. Always driving with joy stick off eliminates the need for the switch. On our coach there is a retard brake light relay next to the two (front & rear) air brake pressure switches, all of which are located high up on the front panel of the forward street side bay (just behind the headlights). Running a pair of wires from this retard relay up to dash gave us our option. Some coaches where joy stick was added post-production, the retard brake light relay was not added, so these coaches do not ever turn on brake lights when their retarder is activated. ------------

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #38
I added a air switch by the brake light switches and powered the trailer controller so it works
from that switch instead of the brake lights, that way the retarder works separately from the trailer
bakes.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #39
Check these out to keep retarder from turning on brake lights sometimes. Let us know if you need more info: ----------- Add a dash switch on the wire from main retard-relay mounted on dash 12v breaker panel in front of copilot chair to retard brake light relay. Or add the switch on this retard brake light relay's wire to air brake switches. Our coach is different, as the air brake switches and retard brake light relay are mounted on front panel in street-side front compartment. Switch is VERY handy to keep cruise control from turning off on highway dips when retard joystick is not in off position. Dip causes throttle to move to idle position allowing retard to come on, and at bottom of dip throttle will accelerate coach turning off retard, if cruise control is still active. ------------ We put in a dash switch to optionally not turn brakes lights on when retarder is active. We did it for freeway driving to keep retard from turning off cruise control. If driving on cruise with joy stick not fully off, and the highway goes down even a small hill, the throttle goes to idle position, retard will kick in and when the highway goes level or starts to climb again, we used to unexpectedly find cruise turned off. With the new retard/brake light switch, we can prevent cruise from turning off. Always driving with joy stick off eliminates the need for the switch. On our coach there is a retard brake light relay next to the two (front & rear) air brake pressure switches, all of which are located high up on the front panel of the forward street side bay (just behind the headlights). Running a pair of wires from this retard relay up to dash gave us our option. Some coaches where joy stick was added post-production, the retard brake light relay was not added, so these coaches do not ever turn on brake lights when their retarder is activated. ------------

Or the relay was disconnected. My Foretravel salesman/friend  Roger T. who worked at and then ran the sales at the Foretravel  of California store after I left mentioned how this was a popular mod. Seems mine must be disconnected. So maybe my coaches brake lights do not come on when the retarder operates on cruise.

I had following people I thought told me that they did come on. Seems unlikely. I will have to be careful if being followed closely it seems. Lots of good mods to allow the retarder to work on cruise which is one of my favorite things when driving the coach.

A lot of owners here were holding back this info it seems. I casually posted many years ago that that was how mine was setup. Either some read my posts or like thinking of great minds took over or their coaches had had the mods long ago.

Great info as I said. I hope this can be pinned for future info both for the mod and to warn that the brake lights my not be on when on cruise and the retarder operates or does the taillights never operate on retarder cruise on or off?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Time to go over going down steep grades,

Reply #40
Keep it as simple as possible so that it is easy for you.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins