1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Topic: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question (Read 7978 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #125 – August 05, 2025, 06:41:46 pm

I read all the 24 postings about solenoid , and watched the video this completed my education about the solenoid shut off valve
But it still left me with two questions
1- how one wire can get less amperage and another more?
If both wires come from the ignition switch

2-underneath the ignition switch it's the black electronic part of the switch which the harness connects to it
Does anyone know which wire from there belongs to the low amperage and which one with higher amperage supply power to fuel solenoid?
The reason I am asking this, is to make sure when the ignition switch is in a run position it contacts between the 12 V power source to the wire that goes to fuel solenoid ( I learned from Chuck that the wire does not go straight from ignition switch to the fuel solenoid. The wire goes to ignition solenoid in the fuse panel, and from there goes to the Fuel solenoid)
Finally, the question is this, when there is no power in the white wire with low amperage to hold up the plunger on solenoid, where to look for ?
I assume, first I have to make sure the wire running from the ignition solenoid inside the fuse panel compartment to the fuel solenoid has continuity right?
To do so, can I see the white wire connected to the ignition solenoid to tested for continuity if it's broken or not? Any pictures of IGNITION solenoid available?
And let's guess that the wire has continuity and it's not broken, then I have to check for continuity in the wire coming from ignition switch to the solenoid. Make sure that wire is not broken, right?
If not, then the ignition switch's electronic member could be bad

But again , if that is the problem, I am told I will not have Power behind the dash

And if both wires have the continuity then I have to check for the voltage coming to these two wires
If I have power on the ignition solenoid and the wire coming from the ignition switch then I have to check if I have power going out of ignition solenoid to the back
And if there is no power there, does that means I have a bad ignition solenoid?
But understanding from Chuck, this ignition solenoid if it goes bad, it will not supply power to any other circuits as well
This puts me in a position that what is next?
I honestly expect to see there is no continuity in the white wire going from ignition solenoid to the fuel solenoid the whole length of the RV, which in this case I can probably run a new wire inside the tunnel, all the way to the back of the engine by cutting both ends of the existing white wire close to IGNITION solenoid and close to fuel shut off solenoid ( in case if it's broken somewhere in the tunnel )
3- but if everything tested good as it's supposed to be then what could make the voltage being less than 12 by the solenoid and the white wire
After spending so much time in this case on my RV, which has been frustrating , the only thing left to be done is to check this Power supply issue
If I fix this and kept my engine running, then I can continue to see whether I am getting Air in the fuel line or not
Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #126 – August 05, 2025, 08:27:08 pm

The two wires going to the shut off solenoid are both 12 volts. This solenoid has two windings one for pulling the plunger down and the other is used for keeping the plunger down. The pull down winding use more power to get the plunger down. The other windings are not as strong since they only need to hold the plunger down, and not pull it down, which requires less power.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #127 – August 05, 2025, 08:32:43 pm

The fuel solenoid has two coils one is called the pull in winding and the other is the hold in winding.
The current for the pull in winding comes from the starter so there is current from the starter only
when the starter is engage. The hold in winding gets current from the ignition. When the key is turned
on there is current going through the hold in winding but that winding isn't strong enough to pull the
solenoid in and when the starter is engaged the pull in winding gets current from the starter and the
solenoid is pulled in and when the starter is stopped the hold in winding now keeps the solenoid in.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #128 – August 05, 2025, 09:04:35 pm

To Jack and peter
I know how solenoid has two coils and how it works
The question is , if there is no power in the white wire which supposedly it is feeding the coil that keeps the plunger up , otherwise to keep the valve open, where to look for? What can cause it?
Is it ignition switch? Is it ignition solenoid is the wire broken in 37 feet inside the tunnel?
Or is the voltage less than 12?
And what causes that why in a wire there should be only 8 V
Batteries are strong. They show 13 V.
House batteries show 13 V
When I try to start the engine, I have the generator running already, and I turned the booster on as well
That means there is no shortage of 12 V supply
To the Batteries
And it cranks strongly that means the starter gets to our volt power
Can someone tell me what makes a wire show less than 12 V?

That is what I really need in order to fix the problem
Actually, I am guessing that 99.9% this could be the case, but I will find out on Friday by using a zip tie on shut off solenoid, and if engine stays running, then that means solenoid is not holding the valve open
( remember, I already have a new Larry B's solenoid installed, and during last two weeks I swapped it with the old one as well, just in case the new one was defected, so the solenoid is not bad. Let's call it this way.)
I'm trying to prepare and educate myself where to look for to solve it
Thank you all
Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #129 – August 06, 2025, 12:07:53 pm

Is there a reset circuit breaker on the fuse panel for the solenoid?

Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #130 – August 06, 2025, 01:50:52 pm

Quote from: rvquestion – August 06, 2025, 12:07:53 pm

Is there a reset circuit breaker on the fuse panel for the solenoid?

If there is, it should show up on the 12V wiring diagram for your coach. The one linked below may or may not be correct for your coach. If it is wrong, there are others available in our Exceptional Forum Library:

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?media/file/b-2179-e24-12v-wiring-diagrams.4747/

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?media/album/schematics.194/view_name_asc/#gallery_contain

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #131 – August 06, 2025, 04:53:10 pm

Have you check the voltage on the white wire with the solenoid disconnected and if it is different
than with it connected you have a bad connection.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #132 – August 06, 2025, 07:06:46 pm

I will do so the day after tomorrow, Friday
First, I will hold the plunger up using a zip tie and start the engine
If it stayed running, that means there is no power in solenoid
Then I will check for the power in both lines
But I have a question back of my mind. What if I used the zip tie and open the fuel line manually and the engine still didn't stay running

Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #133 – August 08, 2025, 09:54:38 pm

Does anyone know or can have a picture of the location of the fuel return check valve?
I am told there is a possibility that a stuck open check valve will not let the engine stay running or will cause a hard start
So, To eliminate all excuses, I'm trying to replace that too
Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #134 – August 08, 2025, 10:49:22 pm

Quote from: rvquestion – August 08, 2025, 09:54:38 pm

Does anyone know or can have a picture of the location of the fuel return check valve?

Edmond,

Found one reference to "fuel return check valve" on C8.3 engine in the old Lewis Anderson post linked below. Read down toward the middle of the LONG post for the entry dated 10 June 2016:

Low Power From Engine

Looking up part number 3924726 brings up the page linked below. Isn't this the same check valve you already ordered (before you ordered the overflow valve)?

'89-'98, 12V Dodge Cummins Fuel Return Check Valve.

See your Reply #89 from 2 weeks ago:

1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #135 – August 09, 2025, 05:47:18 pm

ok every body,
here is the update report also what my next plans are
please feel free to correct or advise me because I am a new RV owner and learning

this morning
- submerged the hose connected to water separator in the canister with diesel
- zip tied the solenoid to keep the fuel valve in open position
- primed the fuel line using the pump on top of water separator
- cranked the starter, after few cranked it started but shortly died
- lifted the mattress and primed it from fuel lift pump
- to make sure, went back to the engine and primed from water separator again
- started the engine and ran at 700 RPM
- unlike last days , it stayed running and after five or ten minutes it died
- went back to the engine , noticed the fuel in the canister is finished
- i was really surprised how she used like close to two gallons of fuel in a short time
- at this point I disconnected the solenoid wire harness and with key in ON ( RUN ) position used my tester light ,one of the wires was Hot
- my assumption is the second wire will get hot when key in start position, and the third wire is ground
- this in mind, i assumed that the coil in the solenoid its getting power to hold the plunger up
- to make sure, pushed the plunger up, and it stayed up , turned the key off, it released
- was time to disconnect the zip tie since there was proof that the solenoid works as it should, and i did so

then:
- I disconnected the hose going to canister and attached the fuel line coming from the tank to water separator
( may be I should have kept the zip tie in place yet )
- using the prime pump on the water separator primed it up
- cranked to start the engine ,it did start, then died
- i primed the system from fuel transfer ( lift ) pump also from water separator
- cranked it, up it did start and although i was giving more gas , it did die again
here in central California it is 105 today, so i left the storage yard upset again

assumption:
- the fuel hose coming from the tank was disconnected since three days ago when i was doing the test with canister
- so I assume that the whole length of the hose coming from tank ( may be over 20 feet ) 1-was empty and it may need more
priming , or 2-the hose is bad and it sucks air

next step
- per John a previous FT owner, first to add some air pressure in the tank to force fuel in the long hose
because it will be to hard to prime all that air in the whole length of the hose , if this didn't keep the engine running then
could be a possible bad hose
- will buy a fuel tank cap and install a valve stem, then will use a bicycle air pump to pressurize the tank (carefully and very little
pressure )
- to do this correctly , I will use a helper to pump air in the tank after i disconnect the fuel hose from water separator
- while slowly pressurizing the tank , will look for fuel to run out of the hose ( may be using bunch of rags not to make a mess )
- when fuel flow is steady, will connect the hose to water separator and then continue with the prime pump on top of
Separator
- remove the fuel tank cap with valve stem and place the original cap
- basically now all the air inside the fuel line must have gone out
- then I will cross my fingers and try to start the engine

result:
- if the engine stayed running , come back next day and try to start the engine
- if it did start and ran, then follow up after longer time being parked
- after a week , if it did start, problem solved, if it required priming again, most likely I need new hoses

Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #136 – August 10, 2025, 07:09:00 pm

It is me again , studying possible replacement of hoses, i decided to pull the tank out rather than cutting the floor
the only two hard parts of the job are, to empty the tank ( about 75 Gallon fuel ) and pull the tank half way out
i am thinking , pre fabricated hoses will ease the job and will cut the replacement time shorter
does any one remember or have notes of what were the sizes of the fuel supply and fuel return hoses and how long each is supposed to be for a 36 feet U295 plus what size of connector on each end?

DAY ONE -I can remove the driver side end cap , and four fuel tank mounting bolts, disconnecting the hoses from engine side
(adding two color electrical tape to separate the supply and return line ) and emptying the tank to have it ready
DAY TWO, remove the door and door frame and pull the tank out, install new hoses and push the tank back and reinstall the door and the door frame " read option below"
DAY THREE ,the driver side cap can be done the day after

THIS IS IF ,WHAT I HEARD FROM MEMBERS IS CORRECT , THAT THE HOSES ARE NOT ZIP TIED ANYWHERE IN THE TUNNEL, AND NO NEED TO REMOVE THE TUNEL SECTIONS ON THE CEILING
which if this is true, i can connect the new hoses to the old one , USING A THREADED CUPLER , and pull them through
i will have a diesel mechanic helping with this project

OPTION: ,
what if while the tank is out ,i disconnect the generator hoses, and install new prefabricated hoses ( long enough as required for generator} and connect the other end of them to the existing hose going to generator using a coupler and leave them looped on top of the tank, ( by loop i mean lay them on top of the tank like SSS shape to prevent twisting
in future ,when generator hoses went bad, there may not be a need to remove the tank

and when time comes, or on another day , the old generator hoses can be disconnected and pulled through toward generator, dragging the new hoses behind them without need to pull the tank out , not sure if the hoses can be pulled through without being pushed and guided from the tank side in though.
some of you may say why not do everything at the same time
here is why?
the FT is in a storage yard, not drive able , hard to be pulled out of it's spot by large tow rig, also to prevent any damage caused by towing
and if the job didn't get finished in one day, everything will be all over the place to continue the following days
which a- is not going to be safe, and b-storage yard may not agree with that
this way i can complete the whole hose replacement job on the site, without leaving half done work on the storage ground
as I described step by step above
need you guys confirmation if this work? also need information from those of you who had done replacement
thanks again
Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #137 – August 10, 2025, 08:02:56 pm

On the ones that I have done I have found that the fittings on the hose are push lock, no clamps required. I measured from the tank to where the hose goes and then added about 8 more feet , went to the hose store and by that time I knew what size of hose I needed. I bought the hose and a couple of extra push lock fittings and the connectors to be able to hook them together and then from the rear of the coach used the old line to pull in the new hose. I usually was by myself, but a couple of times I had a helper that was guiding the new hose in. The generator lines are much harder to pull, because of how they are routed coming from the tunnel to the generator.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #138 – August 10, 2025, 08:17:27 pm

When I did mine, there was no way the hoses were going to be pulled through. Taking the covers down is no big deal.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #139 – August 10, 2025, 08:22:02 pm

I agree on pulling down the covers. Only a few screws #2 square drive screws.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #140 – August 11, 2025, 12:49:19 pm

Red tractor, can you please send me a link or pictures of the push on connectors?
after purchasing the long enough hoses With connectors inserted in each end, i can attach one end to the tank fitting and and the other to the removed old hose from the tank , using a coupler,
Then pull it through from the engine side?
This way my helper can help guiding the hose in the tunnel, (crawling in from driver side)
This way there may not be a need to remove the covers if the existing hose does not have any tie downs

Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #141 – August 11, 2025, 01:25:40 pm

On my '99 there was no way to pull the old one out coupled to the new one. Many ties and twists going through the chase. There is a post about two members who used a telescopic rod and fed it through from the rear and hooked the new hose to it and pulled it to the rear leaving the old hoses intact. I believe Dave Metzler was one of them but not sure.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #142 – August 11, 2025, 01:47:57 pm

I would like to see a picture of your water separator. Is it a part of your primary filter with a clear bowl? If so, these things are well known for being problematic for allowing air into fuel. I'd certainly check this thing out well prior to replacing fuel lines....a big job.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #143 – August 11, 2025, 03:36:32 pm

Please teach me how to add pictures
I am able to attach pictures on new posting not on reply

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – August 11, 2025, 01:47:57 pm

I would like to see a picture of your water separator. Is it a part of your primary filter with a clear bowl? If so, these things are well known for being problematic for allowing air into fuel. I'd certainly check this thing out well prior to replacing fuel lines....a big job.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #144 – August 11, 2025, 03:38:41 pm

Do you mean i replace the water separator with a new one like this with clear glass on the bottom?
Or replace it with one that it is not problematic
Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #145 – August 11, 2025, 04:20:53 pm

Quote from: rvquestion – August 11, 2025, 03:36:32 pm

Please teach me how to add pictures
I am able to attach pictures on new posting not on reply

Press the green reply button at the bottom right above the quick reply. A new window will open up and there will be a space to add pictures or files. You can either drop your picture file in the box or you can search for the file name and click on it.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #146 – August 11, 2025, 04:24:36 pm

Since you are still having problem running the engine after priming with the remote fuel container, I would replace the water separator before attempting to replace the hoses. Others will chime in with the one you will need to use to replace the existing.

Back when you were surprised you used 2 gallons from the remote tank, remember that some of that 2 gallons made it back to your main fuel tank.

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #147 – August 11, 2025, 09:02:23 pm

Attached is a picture of how my water separator looks like
I don't have an actual picture

By the way the engine stayed running until the fuel ran out in the canister .
Lets remind i hade the solenoid plunger tied up with zip tie to keep the fuel valve open
I really don't know how much fuel i had in the canister , will guess may be 1.5 gallons
But when engine died , first i thought another problem is killing it
But soon found out the canister was empty
With little diesel left in it
A mechanic was supposed to come today and see where it is getting air from
But he didn't show up

Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #148 – August 11, 2025, 09:21:07 pm

Regarding removing the covers ( if i ended up replacing the hoses)
I think I read it in on of the posting, " it was my biggest mistake taking the covers off "
His reason was, too much weight of stuff
Cables, wires hoses air lines etc
Which made it miserable to put the cover back
Specially lifting it against ceiling and line up the holes to re mount it
I hope there are no zip ties holding hoses
And if I found them hard to slide out, I may use the other member's idea , who left exiting hoses in the tunnel and using a telescopic rod he inserted the new hose in the tunnel
Edmond

Re: 1998 Foretravel U295 - Air in fuel system question

Reply #149 – August 11, 2025, 09:30:57 pm

You can try leaving the covers up but I have found that sometimes the connection would get hung up going into the next compartment. The fuel water separator that you have is a good one.

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