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Topic: Electrical supply for U270 (Read 1729 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #25 –
Barry,
 
Was there any resolution to this problem?
 
Once finished with that I pulled the battery cover off and was dismayed to see that my two new MK gel batteries were already (4 weeks) showing some side wall bulging, which means that they are overcharging.  I told the mechanics that I was reading too high coach battery voltage from the Audit, but they said the Audit normally reads 0.5 V higher than the charge voltage at the batteries.
George Stoltz.  Retired from full-time living in a great Foretravel and now are back to living in a traditional sticks and bricks in Florida.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Barry Beam –
Quote
How can I determine where and how to wire in the EMS
Morris,
Don Hay shows how he wired it in his 1992 GV
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/progressive_ems.htm

Thank you very much.  As soon as I can spend some time on the MH, I will start planning out how I will do this installation.

I want to thank everyone very much for the assistance.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #27 –
Barry (of Barry and Cindy) has a neat installation that protects for both shore and generator power.

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=6453.msg27554#msg27554

If doing a hardwire model EMS it would be something to consider.

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Steve & Michelle –
Barry (of Barry and Cindy) has a neat installation that protects for both shore and generator power.

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=6453.msg27554#msg27554

If doing a hardwire model EMS it would be something to consider.

Michelle

Thank you very much.  This is helping to educate me.  I need to see exactly what the  TRC Surge Guard unit actually is and then see if I need to install an EMS.  If I need to install the EMS, this information is very beneficial to me.

Thank you very much again and thank you very much to all the other comments/input.  You are helping me very much.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #29 –
Morris,
Barry Leavitt and I both wired our EMS 50 amp units to protect against shore power and diesel generator faults (which also gives full RMS current, voltage & frequency readout and "most recent fault" information on each of the two power legs. 
The EMS units come with detailed instructions that are well written and the Progressive Industries Owner and staff are extremely helpful as well as very customer oriented.  They have a widely known 24/7/365 technical support philosophy.  Their stated warranty is three years, but I have seen them replace much older units at FMCA Trade booths.
If you have questions beyond Barry's write-up and our  pictures, please feel free to PM (Private e-Mail) me and I'll be happy to assist you in any way that I can.
Neal 
The selected media item is not currently available.
Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Neal Pillsbury –
Morris,
Barry Leavitt and I both wired our EMS 50 amp units to protect against shore power and diesel generator faults (which also gives full RMS current, voltage & frequency readout and "most recent fault" information on each of the two power legs. 
The EMS units come with detailed instructions that are well written and the Progressive Industries Owner and staff are extremely helpful as well as very customer oriented.  They have a widely known 24/7/365 technical support philosophy.  Their stated warranty is three years, but I have seen them replace much older units at FMCA Trade booths.
If you have questions beyond Barry's write-up and our  pictures, please feel free to PM (Private e-Mail) me and I'll be happy to assist you in any way that I can.
Neal

As soon as I am back at our MH, I will get as much information as I can about the TRC Surge Guard unit to see exactly what it is.  If it does not do something similar to the EMS unit, I am sure I will need your guidance on the installation.  I am just now learning about our MH and I am sure I will need input from the experts here to do things right and safely.  I am hoping the transfer switches on our MH are in the compartment under the bed as was described by Brad Slaughter and Barry. Thank you very much for everything.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #31 –
I installed the Progressive EMS in the leg from shore power to the transfer switch, since my motivating experience for the initial install was a 30 amp circuit that supplied 220V like a dryer outlet, and fried one of the transfer switch contactors (relays). 
However that doesn't protect against generator faults, and you don't have monitoring of generator power usage by the Progressive, although I do get gen freq and voltage output readout from the Xantrex monitor panel.  For full protection of downstream equipment, probably better to use Barry's install position and plan on sacrificing the transfer switch if bad shore power, but that would leave you without power until fixed. 

I wonder how often the gen produces really bad power?
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #32 –
I stuck mine in the circuit under the bed with only adding a set of short wires.  I just mounted the small panel in the service panel by the shore panel.
Michael Baldacchino
'97 40' U320

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #33 –
Ok, when I was at the MH today, I did some research on various things. One thing I checked out was the TRC Surge Protector.  It is catalog number 44740RV; 120/240 VAC, 60 HZ; 30 Amp; 7200 watts max.  It shows it as a  Portable Ground Fault Equipment Protection Circuit Interrupter.

So it does not look like it is a parallel to the EMS.  Guess I need to start saving the pennies for an EMS.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #34 –
Morris, I am really surprized that it is a 30AMP. However, the only time I mess with getting the very heavy 50 AMP cord out is in the heat of the summer or very cold winter. If you are not going to run both AC untis or if you don't run multiple electric radiant heaters in the winter, 30 AMP power works fine and the power cord is much easier to handle. You nay not need to upgarde for 50 AMPs for quite some time. Jeff and Carol and I were running our coaches without any EMS or Surge Protector for three years without any problems.

The main reason I ordered one now is to protect the new and very expensive 3000 watt Xantrex inverter in my New 2 Me U300.
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Kent Speers –
Morris, I am really surprized that it is a 30AMP. However, the only time I mess with getting the very heavy 50 AMP cord out is in the heat of the summer or very cold winter. If you are not going to run both AC untis or if you don't run multiple electric radiant heaters in the winter, 30 AMP power works fine and the power cord is much easier to handle. You nay not need to upgarde for 50 AMPs for quite some time. Jeff and Carol and I were running our coaches without any EMS or Surge Protector for three years without any problems.

The main reason I ordered one now is to protect the new and very expensive 3000 watt Xantrex inverter in my New 2 Me U300.

Yes, I was surprised it was 30 Amps...but it is ....

I do think I will get a good volt meter so I can check the power before I plug it into the coach. 

Does the power quality  change much after you have plugged into the coach?
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #36 –
Quote from: ncaabbfan –
Does the power quality  change much after you have plugged into the coach?

It certainly can, depending upon the quality of the wiring, the gauge of the wire, and how crowded the park is. 

We have particular issues when we travel in New England.  Most of the parks are older.  While some now have 50 amp, not all of those have made the infrastructure improvements to really support it.  Case in point, the park we've workamped at was originally built for 20 amp and has aluminum wiring.  Boxes and power distribution panels were upgraded at one point, but the wiring is still questionable.  Even power managing on 30 amp (running only 1 major load at any time) we had to unplug and run the genset one weekend when the park got crowded and a couple of older, somewhat home-made/home-modified rigs were on site.  Our Surge Guard and our coach Power Line Monitor both reported voltage on ground while one of these rigs was on site.  (the 50 amp Surge Guard plugged into 50 amp service would not have passed power in that case; we were "adapted" into 30 amp so it only gave a warning light in that application).

One of the primary concerns in these situations is low voltage - it can damage your A/Cs.  A Surge Guard or Progressive EMS will cut the power to the coach if it dips too low.

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Steve & Michelle –
Quote from: ncaabbfan –
Does the power quality  change much after you have plugged into the coach?

It certainly can, depending upon the quality of the wiring, the gauge of the wire, and how crowded the park is. 

We have particular issues when we travel in New England.  Most of the parks are older.  While some now have 50 amp, not all of those have made the infrastructure improvements to really support it.  Case in point, the park we've workamped at was originally built for 20 amp and has aluminum wiring.  Boxes and power distribution panels were upgraded at one point, but the wiring is still questionable.  Even power managing on 30 amp (running only 1 major load at any time) we had to unplug and run the genset one weekend when the park got crowded and a couple of older, somewhat home-made/home-modified rigs were on site.  Our Surge Guard and our coach Power Line Monitor both reported voltage on ground while one of these rigs was on site.  (the 50 amp Surge Guard plugged into 50 amp service would not have passed power in that case; we were "adapted" into 30 amp so it only gave a warning light in that application).

One of the primary concerns in these situations is low voltage - it can damage your A/Cs.  A Surge Guard or Progressive EMS will cut the power to the coach if it dips too low.

Michelle 

Thank you very much for your comments and experiences.  It does sound like I need to make the investment.  I know several of the people here have wired one in permanently instead of using the portable unit.  If I recall correctly, you have the portable unit.  What are your thoughts on the portable 50 amp unit vs. wiring in the permanent unit?
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #38 –
RE:  30 AMP power works fine and the power cord is much easier to handle... the only time I mess with getting the very heavy 50 AMP cord... Jeff and Carol and I were running our coaches without any EMS or Surge Protector for three years without any problems.    reason I ordered one now is to protect the new and very expensive 3000 watt Xantrex inverter
 
---
 
Keep in mind that the difference between 30 amp and 50 amp is not 20 amps.
The difference is 70 amps.
 
(The full rating name is 30 amps at 120 volts and 50 amps at 240 volts to give a difference of 70 amps)
 30 amp cords may have a bigger voltage drop because the copper wire is smaller than 50 amp cords.
 
EMS also protects against poorly wired campgrounds or a well-meaning friend or family where 240 volts may be present on a 120 volt outlet, which can destroy all electronics in a moment.
 
EMS is on guard to prevent low voltage that can quickly appear without warning in the middle of the day or night. Any 120 volt motor can burn out with low voltage, sometimes caused by neighbors in a campground turning on their heaters or air conditioners.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #39 –
Quote from: ncaabbfan –
If I recall correctly, you have the portable unit.  What are your thoughts on the portable 50 amp unit vs. wiring in the permanent unit?

Purely personal preference, personal anxiety level ;)

Hardwired means plugging in more easily, no worries of theft, can be wired to protect against generator voltage issues (although doesn't protect the transfer switch that way).  Generally cheaper.  Generally longer warranty (at least for Progressive).  Progressive unit is also modular for serviceability.

Portable means you also protect the power cord.  If catastrophic failure/surge causes surge protector damage, it's away from the coach, not inside the coach where it might damage other things (have seen 1 photo of a fried hardwired unit which did damage to the coach).  You *can* get a locking device for the portable units to deter theft, although the current Surge Guard plastic version is pretty pathetic and also won't fit over the yellow-handled power cord replacement plug ends.

There is no wrong answer.  It's what gives YOU the greatest peace of mind  :)

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #40 –
It seems like the greatest potential for power issues are with the power supplied at the camp ground.  Is there much chance of power issues with the power generated by the gen set on the coach? If there is little chance of power issues from the gen set, it would appear I should focus on the best way to protect the coach from  power issues from the camp ground power.

Thank you very much.  Everyone's comments are of great benefit to me.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #41 –
Morris,
Diesel Generators have their own "family" of problems.  They don't have nice "clean" power that never varies from 60 Hz, 120 VAC regardless of what load you throw on them.  They run out of fuel, their fuel filters can starve a running generator, the fuel delivery hoses suck air and the gen set dies (imagine what the voltage and current are doing while this is going on), fans fail or radiators leak and they shut down on overheat, governors start to hunt, injectors malfunction, the "Run/Stop" switch gets turned off while the generator set is still under heavy load, etc.  Just all kinds of things that lead to power insults and spikes or droops or long duration sags in the voltage and frequency.  They are different than campground power quality issues, but the end result is that often damage occurs to sensitive electronics and AC Motors IF YOU DON'T PROTECT THEM, at all times .
My experience has been that either (Park Power or Gen Set) can fail or become poor at the most unforeseen and unpredictable of time(s) and the ratio may be somewhat closer than you think to 50/50.
Therefore, I chose to hard wire my EMS to provide shore power AND gen-set power protection at all times.  It's been five or six years now and I feel that it has worked well for us and the way that we use our coach.
But, Michelle said it best "There is no wrong answer.  It's what gives YOU the greatest peace of mind"
Best wishes,
Neal
The selected media item is not currently available.
Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten
 

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #42 –
Quote
Diesel Generators have their own "family" of problems.  They don't have nice "clean" power that never varies from 60 Hz, 120 VAC regardless of what load you throw on them.  They run out of fuel, their fuel filters can starve a running generator, the fuel delivery hoses suck air and the gen set dies (imagine what the voltage and current are doing while this is going on), fans fail or radiators leak and they shut down on overheat, governors start to hunt, injectors malfunction, the "Run/Stop" switch gets turned off while the generator set is still under heavy load, etc.  Just all kinds of things that lead to power insults and spikes or droops or long duration sags in the voltage and frequency.  They are different than campground power quality issues, but the end result is that often damage occurs to sensitive electronics and AC Motors IF YOU DON'T PROTECT THEM, at all times .
My experience has been that either (Park Power or Gen Set) can fail or become poor at the most unforeseen and unpredictable of time(s) and the ratio may be somewhat closer than you think to 50/50.
Quote
Therefore, I chose to hard wire my EMS to provide shore power AND gen-set power protection at all times.  It's been five or six years now and I feel that it has worked well for us and the way that we use our coach.
If you hard wire it to protect both shore and gen power, consider a way to bypass the EMS in case it goes bad and then you will have no power from either.
Planning for a heavy jumper cord that can replace the EMS if it goes bad would be prudent.
The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"