Electrical supply for U270

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Electrical supply for U270

October 29, 2010, 12:58:58 pm

As I am starting to learn about our new-to-us U270, I have some very dumb questions:

1. We need to have an electrical circuit installed in our garage so we can plug our U270 in when it is at our house. What size/rating circuit do you recommend we have installed? I presume we will need the ability to operate the heating system when we have it at the house during the winter time.

2. When I connect the U270 to an external power source (garage outlet or campsite), do I need to place any switches or breakers in the U270 in any specific positon before I plug into the outlet?

3. After it is plugged into the outlet (at home or a campsite), what should I check to ensure the electrical supply is connected and working properly?

4. After it is plugged into the outlet (at home or a campsite), how do I verify the battery set(s) are being charged properly?

Thank you very much.

Morris

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #1 – October 29, 2010, 01:45:20 pm

Morris, I can help with some of your questions. I experienced the same dilemma when I bought my first Motorhome three years ago.

1. Part of your decision on the type of circuit you have installed is how far from the house will the coach be? Which cable will reach the house from that distance? If you can get the coach close enough to the house for the 50 amp, yellow cable to reach then I would recommend having a 50 amp circuit installed, presuming you have enough capacity in you house electrical service box.

If you need to run electricity farther than you 50 amp cable will reach, then put in a 30 amp service.

If you can only put in a 20 amp service due to a capacity problem you will be very limited in what appliances can be used in the motorhome. Remember when calculating the amperage draw for a motorhome, you must include the draw from the inverter/charger. You will probably be able to run the Aqua Hot or Furnace but not electric heat.

Remeber to have the electrician install a socket that match the RV cables you will use. RV plugs are not the same as standard residential sockets.

2. When connecting to an external power source or using the generator, if everything is working properly in the coach wiring the connection to power is automatic. You will have at least one automatic transfer switch, usually two, that take care of any changes in the source of the electricity.

3. Every Foretravel I have seen has a cream colored polarity tester box either in the utility bay where you plug in shore power or in the adjacent bay. It is plugged into a standard electrical outlet. If only the green led is lit, then you are getting properly grounded power. If you get any other lights glowing, move to a new power source. It can be dangerous if the polarity or the ground are not properly wired and it does happen from time to time in camp grounds.

4. I am not familiar with your specific coach but you will have some video screen in the cockpit that will show house DC voltage along with other performance information.

I am sending you a PM with my phone number for further questions.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #2 – October 29, 2010, 02:28:23 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – October 29, 2010, 01:45:20 pm

Morris, I can help with some of your questions. I experienced the same dilemma when I bought my first Motorhome three years ago.

1. Part of your decision on the type of circuit you have installed is how far from the house will the coach be? Which cable will reach the house from that distance? If you can get the coach close enough to the house for the 50 amp, yellow cable to reach then I would recommend having a 50 amp circuit installed, presuming you have enough capacity in you house electrical service box.

If you need to run electricity farther than you 50 amp cable will reach, then put in a 30 amp service.

If you can only put in a 20 amp service due to a capacity problem you will be very limited in what appliances can be used in the motorhome. Remember when calculating the amperage draw for a motorhome, you must include the draw from the inverter/charger. You will probably be able to run the Aqua Hot or Furnace but not electric heat.

Remeber to have the electrician install a socket that match the RV cables you will use. RV plugs are not the same as standard residential sockets.

1. Are 2 legs of this circuit 110V (220 V)? I am presuming 2 legs are 110 V each and a ground to make up the 3 wire connection. And if it is a 4 wire connection, I presume the additional wire is a neutral. Am I right or wrong?

2. If I understand correctly, then I presume I need a dual breaker or 2 individual breakers (for the two hot legs) that are rated for 50 amps or 30 amps. Am I correct?

Thank you very much.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #3 – October 29, 2010, 03:01:32 pm

Morris,
If all you want to achieve is having enough power to keep the batteries charged, a 50 amp service is overkill. If, on the other hand, you want to have the coach while parked at home available for "living", then 50 amp might be better if you need to run both roof A/C's. A 50 amp service at home may run into some $$$ as you may not have enough incoming service to your Main.

Take a look at the link I've attached, and you'll be able to learn some of the details of each 30 and 50 amp installations:

http://www.myrv.us/electric/

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #4 – October 29, 2010, 03:35:37 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – October 29, 2010, 03:01:32 pm

Morris,
If all you want to achieve is having enough power to keep the batteries charged, a 50 amp service is overkill. If, on the other hand, you want to have the coach while parked at home available for "living", then 50 amp might be better if you need to run both roof A/C's. A 50 amp service at home may run into some $$$ as you may not have enough incoming service to your Main.

Take a look at the link I've attached, and you'll be able to learn some of the details of each 30 and 50 amp installations:

http://www.myrv.us/electric/

My primary needs are to keep the batteries charged plus for interior lighting and 110 v power inside the coach so we can load it as well as any small projects that might require a 110 v power tool (drill or something similar).

Will the 30 amp circuit provide sufficient power for these purposes?

I am also concerned that my house incoming power box might not have sufficient capacity for the 50 amp circuit. And other than totalling up the breaker ratings for each breaker in the panel, I do not know how to determine what our current usage vs. capacity is.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #5 – October 29, 2010, 03:52:22 pm

Quote from: ncaabbfan – October 29, 2010, 02:28:23 pm

1. Are 2 legs of this circuit 110V (220 V)? I am presuming 2 legs are 110 V each and a ground to make up the 3 wire connection. And if it is a 4 wire connection, I presume the additional wire is a neutral. Am I right or wrong?

2. If I understand correctly, then I presume I need a dual breaker or 2 individual breakers (for the two hot legs) that are rated for 50 amps or 30 amps. Am I correct?

Morris,

A 30 amp RV hookup is 120V. Single breaker. 1 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground connection. This is the one that REALLY confuses some residential electricians, because they think you want a 30 amp 220V, like a clothes dryer or oven, but you really need 30 amp 120V. Be sure the electrician understands and that the outlet is specifically for an RV. It should be on it's own breaker. We shut the breaker off before plugging in the coach and also before unplugging it. We have a 30 amp hookup at our home.

A 50 amp RV hookup is basically a 240V. 1 leg each of 50 amp 120, a common neutral, and ground. It requires a double breaker (and a lot more house main capacity).

The link Peter provided has excellent information that describes all this, too.

You should be fine with a 30 amp hookup. 50 amp lets you run multiple heavy-use appliances at the same time. As long as you only run one (such as one a/c, the microwave, the dryer, or an Aquahot on electric) you'll be OK on 30 amp.

Michelle

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #6 – October 29, 2010, 03:56:30 pm

Morris,
All I have at home is a 30 amp RV plug, and I have all the power I'll ever use for the tasks you've described. I even run one roof A/C if I need to as there is enough power for running one A/C with a 30 amp service connection. BTW, the 30 amp service is also enough to run the propane furnace, or one of the roof units on heat strip (not recommended for sub-freezing temperatures as the utility bays do not get ducted heat as is provided by the propane furnace).

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #7 – October 29, 2010, 04:06:38 pm

Morris and Janice,

I have never used anything more than a 110 heavy duty electric cord from my garage to the motor home. Keeps the refrigerator running, tv and satellite if DW is watching "Lost or Dancing with the Stars" and a good football game is on. If I need air conditioning while I am working on something outside I unplug and use the generator. Will also run a small space heater. Use coach heater (mine is propane)if very cold so bays stay safe...I do not have Aqua Hot so do not know the draw for that. Did this for 3 years, when home and never had a problem.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #8 – October 29, 2010, 04:11:40 pm

Morris,

Just to add to what Kent and Peter have written: Be very very sure that the electrician sees the connection specs in the link that Peter sent. Especially note that the 30 amp connection is not the same as a dryer outlet (240 V), but is a 115V outlet, where the pins are hot (115v), neutral, and protective ground. I had personal experience plugging into a 240V outlet wired as a 30 amp RV outlet, and needed to repair the transfer box afterward.

You need only one 30 amp breaker for that outlet.

On our 1999 U270, there is a 115V power monitor inside the coach which has lights to verify polarity of connections and voltage monitors for each 115V leg. Nothing in the utility bay on our coach, (although meters there would be nice.)

30 amp power will be fine for keeping the coach charged up and for working in it. We often camp where there are only 30 amp hookups (e.g. state and national parks), and we do fine with only 30 amps, but you do need to watch what is on and not try to run the AC with the microwave or the toaster oven, or else run the generator.

Also strongly recommend that you get a Progressive EMS (electric management system), which will protect you from bad power on the road (or at home...) We have the built-in one, which also has a meter that reads the voltage and current draw on each of the legs, and is very useful when you're on 30 amp power in a campground. Has saved our electrical system twice so far.
http://tweetys.com/progressive-industries-surge-protectors.aspx

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #9 – October 29, 2010, 04:14:36 pm

You don't know how much I appreciate the input from everyone. I thank you so very much!!

This information is a big relief to me. I feared I might have to install a 50 amp circuit and I doubt very much if we have sufficient power in our incoming service to add the 50 amp circuit. It sounds like the 30 amp, 120 v circuit will do just fine for what we will need when it is at the house.

I don't really see a need to run both air conditioners at the same time when it is at the house.

I greatly appreciate everyone's help and input!! I am sure I will ask a lot more dumb questions as I start learning how to use everything in this coach.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #10 – October 29, 2010, 04:18:28 pm

No dumb questions here..Don't know of anyone that has not done something mighty dumb; at one time or another..I could give you a long list of my mistakes....luckily, none of them were when I was driving down the road...Enjoy and learn all you can. It is a great trip

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #11 – October 29, 2010, 04:28:55 pm

Quote from: ncaabbfan – October 29, 2010, 04:14:36 pm

I am sure I will ask a lot more dumb questions as I start learning how to use everything in this coach.

There are no dumb questions - anytime you are trying to learn something you don't know, you're doing the smart thing. And likely someone else has the exact same question, but hasn't asked it.

Heck, we had our coach 6 years before learning there was storage under the middle entry step. We just had to pull hard to open it.

MIchelle

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #12 – October 29, 2010, 04:51:01 pm

I'll top you Michelle,

After owning our coach for three years the weeks we finally were upgrading to another coach we found out we had a telescoping steering wheel...damn, all those miles being uncomfortable...KENT SPEERS, Also.....

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #13 – October 29, 2010, 04:56:38 pm

Quote from: Dave Katsuki – October 29, 2010, 04:11:40 pm

We often camp where there are only 30 amp hookups (e.g. state and national parks), and we do fine with only 30 amps, but you do need to watch what is on and not try to run the AC with the microwave or the toaster oven, or else run the generator.

Is it safe to run the generator set and provide power while also plugged into 30 amp or 50 amp shore power? (I presumed only 1 power source should be supplying power to the electrical system at one time due to the potential of having the power from one source out of phase with power from the second source.)

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #14 – October 29, 2010, 05:35:45 pm

Unplug from shore power before starting generator is best..

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #15 – October 29, 2010, 05:47:59 pm

How cols will your U-270 get in winter? Propane consumption might be an issue - electric space heaters are good for coach - a small one will heat all your coach efficiently, but the bays are another story. Maybe someone knows if a U-270 has a heat thermostat in the bays?

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #16 – October 29, 2010, 05:53:56 pm

Quote

Is it safe to run the generator set and provide power while also plugged into 30 amp or 50 amp shore power? (I presumed only 1 power source should be supplying power to the electrical system at one time due to the potential of having the power from one source out of phase with power from the second source.)

White Clip in Center of transfer relay switch prevents the Generator from being on at the same as Shore Power.
But it is good practice to have only one source of power at one time.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #17 – October 29, 2010, 05:59:43 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – October 29, 2010, 05:47:59 pm

How cold will your U-270 get in winter? Propane consumption might be an issue - electric space heaters are good for coach - a small one will heat all your coach efficiently, but the bays are another story. Maybe someone knows if a U-270 has a heat thermostat in the bays?

I've never looked for a thermostat in the bays, but my guess is that U270 does not have one. I'm not at the coach, so I can't go look. But, in much work done in those areas, I've never seen one in either side of the utility bays.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #18 – October 29, 2010, 06:21:36 pm

We have our 1999 40ft U320 in storage connected to a 20 amp 120v outlet.

We have Aqua-Hot electric heat running to keep the coach at 68. Seems to be working.

But this is in the SF Bay Area and freezing temps are uncommon. 40's are common n the winter.
___

best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Some once thought a million chimps would in time type great old works of literature
Now that we have the Internet we know that not to be true.......

Quote

> If you can only put in a 20 amp service due to a capacity problem you will be very limited in what appliances can be used in the motorhome. Remember when calculating the amperage draw for a motorhome, you must include the draw from the inverter/charger. You will probably be able to run the Aqua Hot or Furnace but not electric heat.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #19 – October 29, 2010, 06:49:45 pm

Finally, before you plug in test the plug yourself. I check each plug prior to using the pedestal at a campground. You need to check the plug at home one time prior to using it. Better safe than sorry. A reducer and a simple tester you plug into a 110 plug will check your polarity and your multi meter can check voltage. You want to see a 110-126 or so, you do not want anything with a 2 in the hundreds column.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #20 – October 29, 2010, 08:30:27 pm

Here in Georgia hard freezes are rare and I will probably be in Florida anyway. I keep a 40 watt bulb plugged in in the left water bay and another one behind the water heater on the right side. I see temps sometimes in the 60's with these bulbs. I also have a remote thermometer on the dash so I can track bay temps in cold weather .

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #21 – October 29, 2010, 09:29:50 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – October 29, 2010, 05:47:59 pm

....................................Maybe someone knows if a U-270 has a heat thermostat in the bays?

U270's do not have thermostats in the bays. The Utility bay (1), the water pump bay (1) and the "Through" storage bay (2) have a total of (4) ducts off of the propane furnace. If the coach is kept above 45 degrees using the propane furnace from the LR wall thermostat, the duct sizes and routing and insulation of the bays are such that the temperature will be slightly higher than 45 degrees in the bays, IF you insulate the cord/sewer/aux cable entry "mini" hatch hole.

Quote from: John Sichenze – October 29, 2010, 06:49:45 pm

Finally, before you plug in test the plug yourself. I check each plug prior to using the pedestal at a campground. You need to check the plug at home one time prior to using it. Better safe than sorry. A reducer and a simple tester you plug into a 110 plug will check your polarity and your multi meter can check voltage. You want to see a 110-126 or so, you do not want anything with a 2 in the hundreds column.

John, you need to have 220 to 240 volts between the two 115 volt, 50 amp blades. If you do not, your power pole is not correctly wired. I like Peter's reference and it is a good one to copy and keep handy for use. I've found a number of campground personnel that do not have a clue. Even discovered an open neutral in one of the TN RV buildings!

Quote from: Barry Beam – October 29, 2010, 05:53:56 pm

Quote
Is it safe to run the generator set and provide power while also plugged into 30 amp or 50 amp shore power? (I presumed only 1 power source should be supplying power to the electrical system at one time due to the potential of having the power from one source out of phase with power from the second source.)

White Clip in Center of transfer relay switch prevents the Generator from being on at the same as Shore Power.
But it is good practice to have only one source of power at one time.

FT Tampa had my transfer switch malfunction and fail, before our (new) coach was ever delivered. Of course they replaced it, but I heartily agree with Barry's advice. Treat every opportunity to be conservative with power source changes as an opportunity to preserve the longevity of your coach. For example:

Always Open the shore power breaker (or pull the shore power plug) before starting your generator.

Always meter test unknown shore power before plugging into it, even if you have an automatic Electrical Monitoring System (EMS) or equivalent.

As Dave K recommended, if you don't have one, invest in a good EMS. It has saved us numerous times in totally unpredictable, unanticipated ways.

Wire your EMS to protect your own generated power as well as incoming shore power faults. I've had generator output problems that would have caused very expensive damage long before I ever knew I had a problem.

Always Stop your generator before plugging into shore power.

Always unload all of your large loads (AC's, microwave, hair dryer, toaster, resistive heaters, etc.) before you stop a running generator or open the shore power breaker.

Always open the shore power breaker before plugging into the shore power receptacle or unplugging from it.

Always keep your shore power plug blades clean and lightly coated w/dielectric grease and don't drop the plug in the dirt or grass.

Some people even turn off their inverter before starting/stopping their generator or before bringing shore power on/off. I don't because the inverter sensing circuitry is specifically designed to seamlessly handle these transitions and I'm lazy (as in I don't like reprogramming clocks that don't have memory backup), but it would be ultra conservative to follow their example.

IMHO,
Best Regards,
Neal

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #22 – November 01, 2010, 10:00:32 pm

There is much to learn and no question is a dumb question.

I think you asked how much cold outside before problems in the bays (water in pipes freezing and so on). During our camphost days and now parked at 8,000 feet at home, we have found that the bays and coach are okay without any heat during the night down to 20 degrees.

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #23 – November 02, 2010, 10:37:07 am

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – October 29, 2010, 09:29:50 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – October 29, 2010, 05:47:59 pm
....................................Maybe someone knows if a U-270 has a heat thermostat in the bays?

Wire your EMS to protect your own generated power as well as incoming shore power faults. I've had generator output problems that would have caused very expensive damage long before I ever knew I had a problem

How can I determine where and how to wire in the EMS after we purchase it?

Thank you very much. [/list]

Re: Electrical supply for U270

Reply #24 – November 02, 2010, 10:44:47 am

Quote

How can I determine where and how to wire in the EMS

Morris,
Don Hay shows how he wired it in his 1992 GV
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/progressive_ems.htm

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