Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Topic: Engine won't start. M-11 2001 (Read 2020 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #25 – January 18, 2014, 08:24:51 pm

The slide interlock does not prevent starting just going in gear.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #26 – January 18, 2014, 09:40:27 pm

Ok, now, for the 'Rest' of the story?!

but first...thanks to all of you that tried to help! I seriously appreciate your effort and your thoughts carefully expressed. All of it, did help not only me, but anyone that is paying attention or printing this out.. very good ideas were expressed. Now, even if I had already tried some of it, it confirmed to me that my thinking was on the right track. again thanks!

in brief...the last 30 or so hours has been 'full'. I'll explain.

Drove to Ft. Pickens in Pensacola, paid my money...got back in the big coach and it would not start.. nothing/nada!

22.5 hrs. later after a long night of head scrathing diagnostics and poor communications.. and then the same in the early morning..hours later, with the help of a service guy, we got it started..it seems to be the starter itself! Surprised me, but a BIG 2-3 lb. hammer proved the point! No new parts for this in Pensacola on a this Saturday afternoon, so I kept the engine running and drove to Louisiana this afternoon. Just stopped at a Camping World.. Really exhausted, little sleep in days. If it will not start in the morning, I can wait till their doors open Monday morning and their shop can do the starter job. again Murphy's law.....of course it could start a 1000 times without failure, or once.....but I'll get to pick up a book I haven't finished..Cool! but, read on....

I then find the battery dead on the red Hyundai which I'm towing now.. the big coach was not charging the car....as it should....Murphy's law.

Oh, almost forgot to mention...but a car pulled in front of me at 65mph too damn close and it's tire through up a stone.. Yes, broke my drivers side window 2 hours ago. It's a MLK weekend I will not soon forget...and it's not over. Dang!
Did I mention Murphy, didn't I?

going to bed early, but now...sitting back and thinking you've got to take the good with the bad and visa versa..Right?

Hope all is going remarkably better for you! Keep a smile and stay well!

ron

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #27 – January 18, 2014, 09:49:02 pm

Forgot to mention.
-REAR START BUTTON (momentary switch) was problematic. bad switch. press it ever so gently..it worked. Press it firmly ... then Nothing. I had never tried this switch.

-yes, engine was in Neutral.

-Mike H. Weather here is also wonderfull. had called Mark Harvey at FT in late afternoon before the FOT closed. He ran me thru some tests, like dash instruments and yes, shift pad.

Ok, hope some of this goes into the archives and helps someone later on, for now...I'm good. But it did take a village............and a big sledge hammer! just like life!

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #28 – January 18, 2014, 09:55:25 pm

I feel your pain - rest easy.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #29 – January 19, 2014, 02:56:46 pm

It might be nice to have a light on the instrument panel by the ignition switch that would be powered on when power goes to the starter. On when you go to start and off when you go out of start. You would know what was going on back at the starter. Would have to run a wire from the starter to the instrument panel.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #30 – January 19, 2014, 03:11:49 pm

Follow-up on John's post. Or with safety stands in place, just use a voltmeter at the starter when someone else turns the key.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #31 – January 19, 2014, 03:43:08 pm

Glad you got it started time for a new starter. I Putin a bigger one. And redid the battery lines and it turns over and starts much faster.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #32 – January 19, 2014, 10:10:09 pm

Forgive me if necessary, but drove from Fl. to Hammond, La. yesterday and parked in the Campers World RV lot overnight. If the starter was bad, I'd just sit and wait until they opened on Monday and let them make a buck. I'm tired.
but..it started and I drove to a location, that Rudy Legget could work on my Aquahot.. the last Item i know of to be 'tweaked'. He's now on top of the issue. Really nice guy and very knowledgeable but most of you already know this.

-Carol and Scott, thanks so much. Obviously, you have been here too... it is life.
-John Duld- Your idea is spot on! However, I'm trying to just step back from reinventing the wheel, or any more projects even though your idea is cool! Instead, I'm going to probably to just get my starter rebuilt somewhere locally if I'm lucky. Otherwise, I'll just buy another one, but really,,,thanks for your thought. Your idea was great!

Brett. I don't have to tell you that your ideas are the ones we all wish for, but...Ok, I'll tell you that! and thanks!! However, I was really alone...out there in a VERY transient parking lot... folks pulled in...and wanted to get OUT OF IT to their spot. Winds were stong, temps dang cold. Staff? well you know. Lastly, "sailor's mentality....fix it yourself or....Uh Oh!" Hard to change from that, but I'm doing it slowly.. Nice to have access to minds well equipped, like so many of those on this forum, but I'm learning more and more from those around me locally.. Life is good.

John S............................Now I'm interested even more! What do you ask for...when rebuilding a starter, or do you just BUY one with different windings or

what did u go for? Now is the time I can upgrade if possible,, but no reason I thought that a standard Starter would not last at least 100, 000 miles. Mine is at 73+K.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #33 – January 19, 2014, 11:31:44 pm

Ron,

Did you try starting with the boost switch on? My dash solenoid had been acting up,( dash blower was intermittent also) and wouldn't start in the FOT parking lot after driving there from Gulfport the week between Christmas and New Year. Good place to have a breakdown eh? Alton told me to start with the boost on and Bingo! He said this is common and the boost will sometimes fix the situation. I bought one while I was there but did not install it as it is only an 80 amp and I will keep it as a spare. It did the same thing on the way home twice. I noticed it was hot to the touch and after about 30 minutes after it cooled off, it would work and the coach would start with the boost on.

I replaced it today with a Cole-Hersee 24213 (200 amp) and tested it good several times. No boost was necessary and all ignition items are working except the dash blower and that could be the motor.

I hope your situation gets resolved easily and inexpensively. We all know electrical gremlins can be the hardest to figure out sometimes.

Sleep on it, be positive, and think Murphy's Law in reverse to defeat it. I know, my middle name is Murphy!

Good Luck,

Jerry aka Murph

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #34 – January 19, 2014, 11:45:52 pm

So you might be the coach Rudy was working on when he stopped to call and help me with my issue.

He sure impressed me.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #35 – January 20, 2014, 10:07:52 pm

Always good to keep the voltage as high as you can get it...if you need something electrical to work! I agree. boost switch on, generator on, non-essential stuff off.

However, I think IF such a solution to an 'immediate' problem works...then it might indicate that there are one or more bad 'Grounds' in the system.

In my case a 2 pound sledge, got the weak spot on the starter to move enough to get current flowing and the unit started the coach..

My starter "might" work a thousand times more...hasn't failed again, but it is going to be rebuilt or replaced in the morning.. I want..."dependability".

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #36 – January 21, 2014, 07:34:52 am

Get cummins one sized bigger or stronger starter. Something green dragon or something. Turns faster and starts with no boost.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #37 – January 21, 2014, 11:17:33 am

Quote from: MemoryRoads – January 20, 2014, 10:07:52 pm

Always good to keep the voltage as high as you can get it...if you need something electrical to work! I agree. boost switch on, generator on, non-essential stuff off.

However, I think IF such a solution to an 'immediate' problem works...then it might indicate that there are one or more bad 'Grounds' in the system.

In my case a 2 pound sledge, got the weak spot on the starter to move enough to get current flowing and the unit started the coach..

My starter "might" work a thousand times more...hasn't failed again, but it is going to be rebuilt or replaced in the morning.. I want..."dependability".

Long ago in Chevy street/drag racing days the starter solenoid's brass bolt internal contact would fry and arc after enough starting of high compression engines.

The offending bolt was remove able and rotatable 180 degrees to present a new surface to contact.

I doubt the major parts are bad or even worn. Its electrical I bet not mechanical.

Bob

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #38 – January 21, 2014, 04:25:14 pm

Went to a Truck Repair shop, here in Baytown, Texas, near Houston this morning. The shop was highly recommended by a friend and after going there, I concurred that this shop knew their stuff. They pulled the starter this morning and we agreed on installing a new one. Well, after a couple of hours of phone calls to their normal suppliers and others, 'only' remanufactured starters were available; Delco-Remy MT-42 is the unit for my M11. What they put in was the same as the units available in Pensacola, all REmanufactured.
I could have waited and sought out a new unit or as John suggested, a stronger starter but felt this resolves issues and I can move on to other problems..

Thanks all for the input.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #39 – January 21, 2014, 05:27:22 pm

Best to be very happy that Foretravel did not use air starters!!! I can say from experience that they are no fun.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #40 – January 21, 2014, 08:50:48 pm

Sure sorry to hear about the Delco MT42 Starter on your ISM450, while that is the identical starter on my ISM, and due to your issue,
I pulled my starter today and took it to my usual shop for evaluation. It had never shown any indications of an issue, but I do not like the idea of an issue away from home.
Dave M

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #41 – January 21, 2014, 09:07:27 pm

I'm guessing but I bet Rudy knows of the rebuild shop on North Shepard above Loop 610 on the NW side of town.
Doug Finch owns the shop North of Sears on the East side of N. Shepard.
I've had excellent results with Doug's rebuilding anything electrical. pc

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #42 – January 21, 2014, 09:32:52 pm

Quote from: Dave M – January 21, 2014, 08:50:48 pm

Sure sorry to hear about the Delco MT42 Starter on your ISM450, while that is the identical starter on my ISM, and due to your issue,
I pulled my starter today and took it to my usual shop for evaluation. It had never shown any indications of an issue, but I do not like the idea of an issue away from my shop.
The choices are take apart and see what might be showing massive wear or Rebuild it, if too much cost to rebuild, buy a new Mt42 @ $400.00, at Cummins my cost is $500.26. OR go with the lighter, but powerful MT39 (geared starter, think that is what John S had installed). The shop I use, was not real high on the geared MT39, need to dig deeper into his thoughts. No idea of cost of the MT39, but holding the 58 lb up into the bell housing was easier 20 years a go, so the 30 lb MT39 just sounds better.
Moe later
Dave M
I have been thinking about going that route in Delco Remey for my ISC. My HD starter guy is not big on them, but he has been doing the old direct drive forever. So I ask him why he doesn't like them and I never really get an answer. Please share any info you get

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #43 – January 22, 2014, 03:42:36 pm

Upon disassembly, the MT42 did show it was due for rework. Total rebuild, new Bendix, bearings, brushes and holders including new insulators $275.00
This is total dissembled cleaned, painted and reassembled.
Not the usual paint rebuild 90% rebuilds are.
Dave M

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #44 – January 22, 2014, 07:10:07 pm

Pocketchange and Dave M,

I totally agree, Rudy Leggett knows his stuff and...the connections available for all of us in his area/ that's why I went south to visit him and have him service my Aquahot. He did WELL.

but as a do it yourself guy...
My body parts so NOT agree with my Mind Parts.. ( if you get this), so my Mind now..NOW gets my attention earlier into the process of decision making.

so NOW, more inclined to Just Fixing the Proble to get the problem solved!"
....sigh.... Doing anything, anything..... 'right' the 1st time, now has increased appealed to me. OK, yup, I'm getting older and less appreciative of time wasted, (also called a learning curve-but if you do not have the time to continue to 'play'?).

Dave,
I thought the problem was only the starter solenoid after initial diagnosis, as I could NOT hear a 'click', when depressing the 'start button' in the engine compartment....then found the start button was a failed component, so went to basic...Hammer technology.

You are correct. and your thoughts rang true words from the mechanic back in P'cola that said...(when I said NO rebuilds!.).. "These REMANUFACTURED units are not loved by truckers. (put some nasty words into his explanation and you will get close to his 'real' response)

IF, I had the ability to pull the starter MYSELF and bring it to a suggest shop via Rudy, I certainly would have, but I have a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder that I've been babying.. for me.. its time to just pay some bucks & must say, none of On Site, thought there would be any problem procuring a New Starter pronto. We dropped the old one and then the search began...without good results.

But honestly, life goes on, all is good.

the new starter does turn the engine over MUCH faster than the old one.

I'm ok.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #45 – January 23, 2014, 12:22:56 am

@MemoryRoads OK is good enough... If you're happy that's all that matters!

see ya
ken

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #46 – January 23, 2014, 09:02:21 am

Quote from: MemoryRoads – January 22, 2014, 07:10:07 pm

IF, I had the ability to pull the starter MYSELF and bring it to a suggest shop via Rudy, I certainly would have, but I have a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder that I've been babying.. for me.. its time to just pay some bucks & must say, none of On Site, thought there would be any problem procuring a New Starter pronto. We dropped the old one and then the search began...without good results.
But honestly, life goes on, all is good.
the new starter does turn the engine over MUCH faster than the old one.
I'm ok.

Memory Roads, Some unsolicited advice from someone who has been there .... Get that Rotator cuff repaired ASAP, it will not get better and may ( will ) get worse. I have had mine repaired three times, twice on the right, and now cannot do any work that required raising my arms to head level. With modern minimal invasive surgery recovery time is shorter than in the past.
End of free advice . ( remember this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it ).
Gary B

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #47 – January 23, 2014, 08:52:32 pm

thanks for your thoughtful comments Gary. I'll Privately message you to keep this 'thread' clean.

However, it would be Good to know what starters might be available that .....well, just might be better to install if one had the time to do some research or purchase..
John's suggestion of a stronger unit would be my choice.. "nothing to strong, ever broke" has been my mantra, so on my boat, I always overbuilt.

however... I'm now on the road, so/but/and...if anyone is sitting home and thinks of this issue as 'Preventative Maintenance" then... that is subject to information that our membership might be able to provide.

All is good for me now. Coach starts fast and I'm a happy puppy! ........................moving on to the next problem.

ron

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