Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Topic: Engine won't start. M-11 2001 (Read 2020 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine won't start. M-11 2001

January 17, 2014, 06:27:54 pm

Pulled into campground on my way from Florida to FOT for service and dang...the engine would not start. NO sound at all when turning ignition switch, nor the momentary switch over engine.
Crawled underneath and all connections tight, batteries too. All voltages good.
So, Ok, what might be wrong. Any ideas...sitting in a parking lot at the campground office.

Called FOT for some clues, but checked all I could, getting dark..

Any ideas from maybe someone that has had such an ocurrance?

sun is setting and all is fine, no danger. Just would like to get on top of this issue if anyone has some clue.

Thanks in advance. ron

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #1 – January 17, 2014, 07:29:04 pm

Is the engine cranking? Or, just nothing, no clicking solenoids, etc.? If the voltages from the batteries to the battery isolator are fine, the grounds should be fine. Need more information.

(edit) Check the ignition solenoid for proper operation. (Located in dash panel in front of passenger position.)

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #2 – January 17, 2014, 07:37:26 pm

Ron,

Do the warning lights come on when you turn the key? Try jumping small terminal to feed/supply terminal (the one closest to the outside) at the solenoid under the dash and listen for click/check voltage on the other side with test light or meter. If OK, jump the starter solenoid at the starter motor to see if you get any action. Check supply cable at the starter motor. Do you have an engine compartment starter button? Possible you may have a remote starter solenoid a few feet away from the starter but I'm not acquainted with your rig.

Pierce

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #3 – January 17, 2014, 07:55:49 pm

Thanks Peter and Pierce,
(edit) Check the ignition solenoid for proper operation. (Located in dash panel in front of passenger position.) I will do that in the morning, when my mind is fresh. Have been doing long days to jump off to FOT and wiped out when I got here.. Murphy's law. but hey, no emergency, just a problem.

Note: nothing heard when turning key in ignition. Nothing heard when pressing the momentary button atop engine to start.. nada/nothing!

Checked all wiring, all is tight and have done this often/anal owner.

So, big surprise here, for me. I do believe it is something very simple...
I'm in a parking lot with nose down, 3 or 4 degrees, so wondering if...there is a Neutral Safety Switch on the Allison that could by feel or pressure say NO to starting?

Also, right now, my suspension pressures are low without engine starting, so BRAKE Push/Pull on dash does not work. NOW THIS MIGHT BE IMPORTANT to this issue...

A few months ago, I pulled the coach "out of the garage" and then it would NOT start. I then heard minutes later...some "air leak" coming from under the driver's side dash... not sure what I did, or did not do then but got it resolved..

I'm thinking this air leak, in the BRAKE system, has something to do with this "non start issue"..
my gut reaction....

again, NO emergency, but would sure like to know what is up...even if I have to pay for service in the morning,,, I'd like to understand if I can, and learn from the rest of you.

again, thanks in advance. ron

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #4 – January 17, 2014, 08:00:46 pm

If the dash HVAC fan works with the ignition on, the ignition solenoid is good. If not, that is your first "suspect".

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #5 – January 17, 2014, 08:13:53 pm

Thanks Brett, Just tried that. Ignition ON, Fan works in all 3 speeds.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #6 – January 17, 2014, 08:17:27 pm

does lack of brake pressure or incline Nose Down have any sensors that U guys might know of?

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #7 – January 17, 2014, 08:52:27 pm

No it does not have one that I am aware of.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #8 – January 17, 2014, 08:53:52 pm

I had to replace my starter but I could jump the solenoid on it.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #9 – January 17, 2014, 11:38:12 pm

Ron, I am fairly sure that I understand Bret process checked the solenoid. But I was called out on a coach would not start.

Technician came out. The solenoid behind that panel was the culprit. And was the first suspect when I called in for help, ideas, for these folks.

You will find a subsequent thread I put on the forum about the old solenoid design and a good replacement option. As I recall, the current thru that original solenoid could, likely, over time deteriorate it and there was a different arrangement that split the current.

But as I understand, Bret gave you a test. So guess not the solenoid. Others need to keep in mind that particular solenoid, I even replaced as a preventative.

On the dash air, I had a leak in the park brake switch, the thing you pull out, and had to replace it.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #10 – January 18, 2014, 02:56:31 am

I would look there too I carry a spare for that.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #11 – January 18, 2014, 07:48:14 am

The test for the ignition solenoid (the one under the dash) is very simple. If you turn the key to ON, things that only run with the ignition on are now powered. The easiest on most coaches to see/hear is the dash HVAC fan (unless someone has wired yours to run with ignition off of course). Any other item that only works with ignition on could be used just as easily.

What other "ignition inhibitors" are there in the 2001?

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #12 – January 18, 2014, 07:48:42 am

Have you tried using the rear start button?

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #13 – January 18, 2014, 09:02:48 am

Ron, Is the transmission in NEUTRAL ? I know , simple but sillier things have happened,
Gary B

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #14 – January 18, 2014, 09:28:07 am

Played in the dark last night and early this morning. Have a truck repair shop sending someone out when they can this morning as I'll have to move out of this parking lot.
-Transmission is in Neutral. Brake switch pulled.
-Ignition switch, when turned on, activates all gauges on dash as normal. Analog voltage gauge shows 12. 8 volts/(confirmed by my aux monitor for Inverter/charger).
-When turning ignition key to start position....No sound at all..no clicking/nothing...but do notice the voltage on gauge drops to what looks like 12.1 or so, so it appears the ignition switch is good.
-With Ignition in the ON position...the Remote Start button in engine compartment also does nothing!

To me, that suggested that maybe a neutral safety relay could be the culprit, but just swapped it out with another and there is no change.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #15 – January 18, 2014, 09:37:59 am

Quote from: Gary Bouland – January 18, 2014, 09:02:48 am

Ron, Is the transmission in NEUTRAL ? I know , simple but sillier things have happened,
Gary B

What happens if the engine is shut down with the Allison in "D"?

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #16 – January 18, 2014, 09:47:25 am

Check and clean the engine battery terminals. This mean cleaning the post as well at up inside the cable connector. On cars, I have seen the warning lights come on when the key it turned but no voltage when the start position is tried.

Pierce

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #17 – January 18, 2014, 09:54:02 am

Engine was shut down as normal...in Neutral. Tried several times last night and today to depress D, R and back to N. No change. Swapped out Nuetral safety relay...no change.
Batteries terminals are clean.

thanks for still hangin' in!

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #18 – January 18, 2014, 09:58:47 am

scanned the wiring diagram... hope it shows up.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #19 – January 18, 2014, 11:03:50 am

Peter, I have stupidly shut down while still in gear and then later could not restart. I realize I am the only one in this group stupid enough to do that but I have learned by experience.

To restart after shutdown in gear you simply return to Neutral.

Gary B

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #20 – January 18, 2014, 12:26:45 pm

Ron, sorry to say at your expense I have learned two key things, the further function and means to test that solenoid per Bret, and the idea to try that remote start. I should have thought about the electrical post, I had to replace that.

My third learning will be when you get this fired up...what was wrong and how to get er done.

Hope at least weather great there as it is in east Texas today

Mike

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #21 – January 18, 2014, 12:28:09 pm

Quote from: MemoryRoads – January 18, 2014, 09:28:07 am

-Ignition switch, when turned on, activates all gauges on dash as normal. Analog voltage gauge shows 12. 8 volts/(confirmed by my aux monitor for Inverter/charger).
-When turning ignition key to start position....No sound at all..no clicking/nothing...but do notice the voltage on gauge drops to what looks like 12.1 or so, so it appears the ignition switch is good.

Voltage drops when key is in "start" position. Voltage is going somewhere. Where? Dead short somewhere in (+) cable going to starter?

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #22 – January 18, 2014, 12:37:05 pm

What about the interlock for the slide - does your coach have one? I remember there being a bypass on the HWH slide controller box. I think it's a black round thing that turns with a flat blade screwdriver.
This is the best I can find searching: Slide/Levelling Interface

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #23 – January 18, 2014, 12:42:30 pm

Quote from: JohnFitz – January 18, 2014, 12:37:05 pm

What about the interlock for the slide - does your coach have one? I remember there being a bypass on the HWH slide controller box. I think it's a black round thing that turns with a flat blade screwdriver.

That's a great suggestion. Were there twisty changes in grades when accessing the campground? This may have done some changes to the slide room's switches.

Re: Engine won't start. M-11 2001

Reply #24 – January 18, 2014, 03:53:18 pm

Does the Allison shift pad illuminate as normal?

Affiliate Notice