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Topic: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common? (Read 2378 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #75 –
True, actually the heat got to me again! A TDR (Time Domain Reflectometer) is the best tool for wire issues!  Hey as I age, it seems the more I try and use my OLD Skills the worse it gets! I truly haven't thought about my Electronic Skills in decades, now!  As they say, rust never sleeps!

So, I have a Theory for the Voltage Increase! It's nearly a day now, and my Coach & Chassis Batteries are stabilizing, at 14.2 Vdc, once again!  A big sigh of relief, as I believe I have at least caught the errant charging, before complete destruction of over 2 Coach Bucks of Batteries, got fried, in the process!

When I took the Lower Right Bottom Panel, of the Xantrex Panel, off,  to check incoming voltage, I noticed the wire nuts were semi-loose! The Solid Conductor was green on each of the 3 wires and the Stranded wire, that went around the solid conductor, had Corrosion that caused dust to just come off it! A wire brush, made short order of that! I cleaned all that off, and securely tightened the wire nuts, back on!  I then used electrical tape to seal it better, from that happening again!  A dab of dielectric grease, would have served the same purpose, as well!

Conclusion : The resistance increased, then followed by a Voltage increase, caused it to read 17 Vdc, and spiking to 19Vdc!

It would not hurt, for those with issues, or even Preventative Maintenance, look at your wires there!  Make sure ALL power is off, and Isolated from any Batteries, as well, before you do, that, of course!  The incoming House Battery cables in the rear, are better sealed, but I still took the Twist Locks off, and spun the Large Leads, a bit, as well! Who knows how many people have tossed their Xantrex, Inverter/Charger, because of the same Issue, perhaps?

Anyway, that is MY conclusion, on that!  Hope that can help someone in the future, as well?

As always, thanks for sticking with this 'ol Jarhead! I feel confident to head back on out now, on my journey home! It sure has been an experience, in all this heat! In a few short months though we will all be complaining about the Cold1 ;)

Tom & Barb Root
'95, 40' U-320C SE, bought from Dave Head, 8/2017  FT Motorcade # 18196 Coach Build# 4663 October '94
2015 VW Golf Sportwagen, 1991 Suzuki Samurai, Off-Road Custom Build-Up, W/Toyota 22re mill, and a 2005 Chevy 2500HD, Duramax/Allison TOADS Will also pull a MacGregor 26X Powersailor 2001 Model, owned since new!

Retired SR Rocket Mechanic, FT Sales Associate @  FT of California, Escondido CA.!  and Retired USMC Gunnery Sergeant (Hence Retired Guns! ) Avionics Tech, on A6E Intruder & OV-10 Bronco Aircraft!  V/N Era Vet, and Desert Storm Participant.  Happily Retired now!

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #76 –
Quote from: RetiredGuns –

Actually, I believe I do!  True, but on or off, the Alternator may still be toast!  As said I want to ring out all the wires, and may be investing in what we call a Megger. (Meg Ohm Meter) It can locate Shorts, Opens, and High Resistance in wires!  Great Tool, just don't know anyone with one to rent? The Mice did a Number on me, and that is the only device that can actually tell me what and where the damage is! 
Do you want a Megger that you crank?  Or one that looks like a multimeter built to fry electronics?
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #77 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –
Do you want a Megger that you crank?  Or one that looks like a multimeter built to fry electronics?

I am looking for the Cheapest one that actually works!  Same with a TDR. I do miss having electronic Gizmo's that make life much easier!

I do believe my coach could use them, too! LOL
Tom & Barb Root
'95, 40' U-320C SE, bought from Dave Head, 8/2017  FT Motorcade # 18196 Coach Build# 4663 October '94
2015 VW Golf Sportwagen, 1991 Suzuki Samurai, Off-Road Custom Build-Up, W/Toyota 22re mill, and a 2005 Chevy 2500HD, Duramax/Allison TOADS Will also pull a MacGregor 26X Powersailor 2001 Model, owned since new!

Retired SR Rocket Mechanic, FT Sales Associate @  FT of California, Escondido CA.!  and Retired USMC Gunnery Sergeant (Hence Retired Guns! ) Avionics Tech, on A6E Intruder & OV-10 Bronco Aircraft!  V/N Era Vet, and Desert Storm Participant.  Happily Retired now!

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #79 –
Quote from: jcus –
VC60B+ Digital Insulation Resistance Tester Megger MegOhmmeter Meter 250V...


Thank You Sir!  I will ordering that ASAP! Excellent...if it works, of course?

I have been searching for TDR's as well! While a Megger has it's use, it does have limitations, that a TDR, solves! They are Dead on for troubleshooting wire issues!

I do appreciate that link!
Tom & Barb Root
'95, 40' U-320C SE, bought from Dave Head, 8/2017  FT Motorcade # 18196 Coach Build# 4663 October '94
2015 VW Golf Sportwagen, 1991 Suzuki Samurai, Off-Road Custom Build-Up, W/Toyota 22re mill, and a 2005 Chevy 2500HD, Duramax/Allison TOADS Will also pull a MacGregor 26X Powersailor 2001 Model, owned since new!

Retired SR Rocket Mechanic, FT Sales Associate @  FT of California, Escondido CA.!  and Retired USMC Gunnery Sergeant (Hence Retired Guns! ) Avionics Tech, on A6E Intruder & OV-10 Bronco Aircraft!  V/N Era Vet, and Desert Storm Participant.  Happily Retired now!

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –
Do you want a Megger that you crank?  Or one that looks like a multimeter built to fry electronics?


So, are you saying that the Multimeter type, Above can Fry Electronics? I might have to buy the Crank style , I have used before, that is all I ever used anyway! We had issues with digital Multimeters, Frying Circuit Boards, on the A6-E, Intruders in the 'Corps, we had the Top of the line Fluke 77's at the time in the late 70's - 80's! So some circuits required the Old but great Simpson - 260, Multimeter!  You also NEVER used a Digital type on an Armed Rail of any Aircraft, as stray Output Voltage could Pickle a Bomb or Missile to actuate and go BOOM! ;) The 1967 USS Forrestal historic epic fire was possibly the culprit of such uses of a Digital!
Tom & Barb Root
'95, 40' U-320C SE, bought from Dave Head, 8/2017  FT Motorcade # 18196 Coach Build# 4663 October '94
2015 VW Golf Sportwagen, 1991 Suzuki Samurai, Off-Road Custom Build-Up, W/Toyota 22re mill, and a 2005 Chevy 2500HD, Duramax/Allison TOADS Will also pull a MacGregor 26X Powersailor 2001 Model, owned since new!

Retired SR Rocket Mechanic, FT Sales Associate @  FT of California, Escondido CA.!  and Retired USMC Gunnery Sergeant (Hence Retired Guns! ) Avionics Tech, on A6E Intruder & OV-10 Bronco Aircraft!  V/N Era Vet, and Desert Storm Participant.  Happily Retired now!

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #81 –
I have never seen a megger, either battery operated or crank type that not produce a current. If it doesn't , wouldn't it just be an ohm meter?https://www.marineinsight.com/marine-electrical/construction-and-operation-of-megger-explained/
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #82 –
Lynn bought one of these for use on the last real job we had.

Insulation Testers, Resistance Testing, Megohmmeter Testing | Fluke

The problem comes in when the un-initiated try to use the multimeter functions and "push the button."  You can do damage to electronics with a regular ohm meter, the high voltage necessary for a mega-ohmmeter is guaranteed to fry electronics.

As a gifted but sometimes slow witted toolmaker, Lynn relegates me to using VTVM, crank type meggers and any oscilloscope he doesn't care about.  Giving me time to realize my error before frying stuff.

1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #83 –
Quote from: RetiredGuns –

Who knows how many people have tossed their Xantrex, Inverter/Charger, because of the same Issue, perhaps?

Anyway, that is MY conclusion, on that!  Hope that can help someone in the future, as well?

Count me as one who could have used this information years ago. 

Ten years ago I burned up a thousand dollars of house batteries with charging voltages spiking up to 27 volts .  After talking to techs at ProSine I concluded my inverter/charger was badly malfunctioning and replaced it for another coach buck.  Now, after reading about your experience I probably could have saved myself many headaches and dollars by simply tightening a couple of bolts. 

Thanks for sharing, and like you I hope this helps others. 

Richard

Jan & Richard Witt
1999 U-320  36ft WTFE
Build Number: 5478 Motorcade: 16599
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited w/Air Force One
Jan: NO5U, Richard:KA5RIW
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Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #84 –
Have never used a megger on electronics, always on motors, generators, big transformers etc.
As they produce 250, 1000 or more volts I can see why it would be a bad idea.
A multimeter also uses voltage to measure resistance, but is usually far less than 10 volts.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #85 –
For 95% of electric diagnosis on a motorhome's 12 VDC and 120 VAC system, a simple digital voltmeter is all you need.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #86 –
I have all of Klein's digital meters including the true RMS clamp meter. They have saved me a ton finding a shorted knob and tube fault when an electrician and two assistants could not find it but charged me $250. I did have to drive 500 miles but.

The meter I use most is the Harbor Freight digital multimeter for $6.39. Reads the same voltages as the Klein and I give them for stocking stuffers at Xmas. https://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-63759.html

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #87 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
For 95% of electric diagnosis on a motorhome's 12 VDC and 120 VAC system, a simple digital voltmeter is all you need.

Fully understand that, Brett!  My issue is short of Rewiring the Entire Coach, I want to Fully determine that those Vermin, didn't destroy even more wiring, that is an Unknown, to bite me in the future!  Meters are handy, but knowing what can and will happen, when wires toast themselves, I want to bring out the Big Guns, to ensure that any issues like I have been having are not shutting me down again, like this! I removed 2 nests in the Under Floor Conduit!!! Insulation breakdown/EATEN, can be quite a Show Stopper, and I have quite a chore ahead of me!  I like challenges, so it's all good! It has been a pretty Harrowing Experience I do not wish to repeat, soon, though!  All the help, so far, from folks like yourself again, has been quite the Godsend!  Someday, perhaps, I too will reach your level of Expertise on Coach Issue Resolution, till then, I read, read, and do more reading about systems I have little knowledge of, and gain confidence, the more I delve into my Unknowns!  All this would been enjoyable, if this Journey itself wasn't so long and protracted, as it has become, as well!  As I said to my wife, every endeavor becomes an adventure, for me! ;)
Tom & Barb Root
'95, 40' U-320C SE, bought from Dave Head, 8/2017  FT Motorcade # 18196 Coach Build# 4663 October '94
2015 VW Golf Sportwagen, 1991 Suzuki Samurai, Off-Road Custom Build-Up, W/Toyota 22re mill, and a 2005 Chevy 2500HD, Duramax/Allison TOADS Will also pull a MacGregor 26X Powersailor 2001 Model, owned since new!

Retired SR Rocket Mechanic, FT Sales Associate @  FT of California, Escondido CA.!  and Retired USMC Gunnery Sergeant (Hence Retired Guns! ) Avionics Tech, on A6E Intruder & OV-10 Bronco Aircraft!  V/N Era Vet, and Desert Storm Participant.  Happily Retired now!

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #88 –
Regarding Pierce's comments.  I like to at least have an audible continuity tester.
https://www.harborfreight.com/11-function-digital-multimeter-with-audible-continuity-61593.html
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #89 –
Quote from: RetiredGuns –
Fully understand that, Brett!  My issue is short of Rewiring the Entire Coach, I want to Fully determine that those Vermin, didn't destroy even more wiring, that is an Unknown, to bite me in the future! )

Yup, for tracing wires (vs solving charging problem) you are exactly on target.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020
 

Re: Batteries Discharging all 3 Modes, what is in common?

Reply #90 –
Quote from: Jack Lewis –
Regarding Pierce's comments.  I like to at least have an audible continuity tester.
https://www.harborfreight.com/11-function-digital-multimeter-with-audible-continuity-61593.html
That's why I have a drawer full of Klein testers in the coach.

P
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)