Coolants for Diesel Engines

Topic: Coolants for Diesel Engines (Read 2396 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #25 – April 23, 2014, 07:12:19 pm

As an update to my earlier post concerning Shell Rotella and the color of the liquid (red or green), I contacted Shell and received the following via email and the same response from my conversation with Shell.

"Dear Sir,

Rotella ELC coolant 50/50 should be red in color, not green. Rotella ELC is an extended life diesel engine coolant that can be used for 600,000 miles if properly maintained and if an extender is added at 300,000 miles. Green coolant is just a regular ethylene glycol coolant and does not have diesel additives in it. While the 2 will mix, the mixture will not be extended life and will not have the proper concentration of additives for diesel engines. Please give us a call at 800-237-8645 Options 3,1 and we will be happy to assist you further.

Regards,

Shell Technical"

I certainly learned from this experience and from that of the Forum members. Actually what I had purchased was Shell Rotella Ultra ELC. That's all that was available from the Love's Truck Stop I had purchased it from.

My plans are to flush my system and use the correct coolant this time.

Thanks for all the help, again.

jack

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #26 – April 24, 2014, 05:34:53 pm

Brett,
The coolant is spec for the application. As for how long its been since the last service, I'd be guessing. As for the condition of the coolant, I had it tested at the local facility ($35.00 thank you) and it indicated to be about 75%. I then cut open the old system filter which was acceptable, then drained a gallon and added the RMI-25, drove it for a couple of months and cut the filter open again, after overflowing the tank a number of times to rid the system of the sludge (per the RMI-25 method of doing things.) Topped off after looking in the holding tank (which was clean as a new tin can) and have not done anything but look at the sight glass and chug on down the Blvd ;>). I have no issues with overheating since I am not in a rush and live in East Texas which is still flat as a billiard table. pc

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #27 – April 24, 2014, 06:01:06 pm

OK, I know, off topic, but what sail boat do you have (looking at your picture)? We did a LOT of cruising by sailboat before getting into motorhoming. And there are quite of other sailors here.

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #28 – April 24, 2014, 10:46:51 pm

32' Hans Christian.. for escaping the local insanity.
Rigged to go anywhere and never goes anywhere but the ship channel. pc

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #29 – April 25, 2014, 12:29:30 am

Your boat was built down the road from Formosa Boats where ours was built. As I remember, they had an excellent shop foreman and were finished nicely. The 1980's were great times for Taiwan boatbuilding. Really well laid up glass hulls and great teak joiner work. All for pennies on the dollar compared to U.S. and Euro boats. No one could duplicate the custom teak work at any price. Barlow clones that worked just as well, excellent rigging and sails from Cheong Lee in Hong Kong, the world's best sail loft.

Pierce

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #30 – April 25, 2014, 08:46:08 am

Thank You. Not too many of this heritage in the area and even fewer setup as though it was headed around world. We get quit a few compliments from the captains coming into port when out in the channel doing our best to avoid being run over.) pc

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #31 – April 28, 2014, 08:46:52 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – April 21, 2014, 04:14:26 pm

Rich,

Every single municipality's vehicle maintenance department has the same issue-- and services large numbers of vehicles. Same for school district bus barns. I would call them-- quite likely they will let you drop it off at their shop.

It's funny, I called Sun State International who so far had been kind and excellent value when it comes to my parts needs. They gave me an emphatic no to taking my coolant, despite me buying the new coolant from them.

I ended up using one of the recycling lookup websites to find that one of the Advance Auto's near me (but not all of them) takes coolant.

The looks I got bringing in 20 gallons of coolant were priceless. I ended up filling up their whole coolant drum and had to leave 3 bottles.

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #32 – April 28, 2014, 08:49:21 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – April 23, 2014, 12:47:30 pm

This would be a great time for some product standardization, and straightening out the various acronyms for coolants. My understand is that ELC (extended life coolants) can be either organic acid or glycol based, with the glycol coolant needing SCA additives periodically.

Somewhere in the reams of Fleetguard tech sheets I read was a statement that the standard glycol coolant was the most efficient coolant. Some day when I'm feeling the need for self abuse I'll see if I can locate it again.

I'm running the "blue stuff" as Cummins parts calls it.

To confuse you further, Fleetguard ES Compleat OAT comes in ethylene glycol and propylene glycol variants. Luckily I got the EG variant.

Also shell Rotella ULTRA ELC is a moly (I think that's the terminology) coolant and is a new technology. Supposedly it's better but I'm not going to be the guinea pig on that one. It is yellow in color and is not compatible with red Rotella ELC HD diesel coolant which is an OAT coolant.

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #33 – September 08, 2014, 10:15:53 am

I realized this weekend that My last 2 filter changes on my Rotella ELC system had 4 units each of SCA. I switched to ELC back in 2009 and kept buying the SCA filters by mistake. Afraid that I had ruined my coolant, or even worse,that I had done some damage to the engine or cooling system, I called Shell this morning for advice. I was fully expecting the conversation to quickly move to a choice between Rotella ELC or Rotella ULTRA ELC for my new fluid. To my surprise, and contrary to everything that I had understood about ELC, they said that I don't have anything to worry about. While SCA is not needed in the ELC, they said that the only harm it will do is the addition of some dissolved solids. They said that as long as I have not added any other type of fluid there is no need for me to test for contaminants and that I should just stop using SCA filters. Performance and life expectancy of the ELC is not affected enough to matter. In fact, he said that they have had fleets convert to Rotella ELC by adding the ELC boost product to existing fluids without draining them. This is so different from what I expected to hear that I'm worried if it's true.

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #34 – September 08, 2014, 10:52:43 am

While at two Detroit Diesel factory shops to try and get a manual for my reader, I asked about coolants. Both shops laughed and said they just use the green stuff on the shelf for all vehicles. Think that in many cases, the manufacture's recommendations and what the shops or fleet owners do is quite different. Sometimes, the different divisions at the manufacturer may not seem to be in touch with each other.

Pierce

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #35 – September 08, 2014, 11:31:51 am

I would have thought that the Shell Rotella tech support rep that I talked to would be the best source for accurate information. I would have discounted the info if it had been from a mechanic at a shop but the factory tech support guy should be the definitive source. He seemed very knowledgeable and confident in his advice. It was just 180deg from what I expected to hear.

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #36 – September 08, 2014, 12:10:23 pm

Yes, I find his advice very strange. Even with the regular "low silicate for diesel with added SCA" where you test and add SCA (it is used up) there is a strong caution about not overdosing the SCA. 1200 PPM is ideal.

As a side note, wonder if you spoke with a "customer service rep" or a chemist who really knows the chemistry.

Personally, for the low cost (relative to cost of water pump, radiator or engine) I would flush and fill and then go with the correct zero unit SCA filters (called filter BLANKS).

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #37 – September 08, 2014, 01:38:14 pm

I called Shell back and spoke to a different tech support rep (Larry) in their Rotella Coolant dept to get a 2nd opinion. He was very consistent with the 1st guy. He says they have been advised many times by their "formulators" that SCA by itself is not a problem and it does not negatively affect the chemistry. it's just an additive that is not necessary but in small quantity does no harm. Again, he seemed very knowledgeable and sure of his information. He was saying that they answer this question a lot and it's not a problem. Just change the filter and stop using SCA filters from this point forward. Both reps were more concerned that only ELC fluid has been used for any top offs than they were about the SCA filters. While I generally agree with the case for a full fluid flush and change, for now I don't think I'm going to rush into it. The current 4 unit filter has about 2k miles on it so it may be completely dissolved by now but I will probably go ahead and change it out.

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #38 – March 29, 2021, 01:41:07 pm

Checked the coolant with a Wix heavy duty test strip https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FIL4106 and it shows time for a charge. It has the green in it now but I'm not sure if it is the right kind. I had it tested 6 years ago and was told it was good.

Napa is running a sale till the end of the month on their coolants. Just picked up 12 Gal of Peek Fleet concentrate (the Pink stuff) at $9.99 gal. for a total of $128. It meets Detroit Diesel Spec 93K217 for wet sleeve liner cavitation protection in 2-cycles. You even get a free #9 Chase Elliot racing hat with a $25 purchase. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FCRFCA003

I'm going to purchase a Vacuum fill coolant kit to make it easier and follow Brett's detailed instructions. This one has a flexible hose for hard to reach connections like in a Grand Villa. (Hope it fits!) Amazon.com: Coolant Vacuum Refill Kit, Qiilu Coolant System Refiller Kit...

Spring time is coolant change time!

Jerry

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Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #39 – March 29, 2021, 04:44:31 pm

Quote from: coastprt – March 29, 2021, 01:41:07 pm

Checked the coolant with a Wix heavy duty test strip https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FIL4106 and it shows time for a charge. It has the green in it now but I'm not sure if it is the right kind. I had it tested 6 years ago and was told it was good.

Napa is running a sale till the end of the month on their coolants. Just picked up 12 Gal of Peek Fleet concentrate (the Pink stuff) at $9.99 gal. for a total of $128. It meets Detroit Diesel Spec 93K217 for wet sleeve liner cavitation protection in 2-cycles. You even get a free #9 Chase Elliot racing hat with a $25 purchase. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FCRFCA003

I'm going to purchase a Vacuum fill coolant kit to make it easier and follow Brett's detailed instructions. This one has a flexible hose for hard to reach connections like in a Grand Villa. (Hope it fits!) Amazon.com: Coolant Vacuum Refill Kit, Qiilu Coolant System Refiller Kit...

Spring time is coolant change time!

Jerry

Jerry...more then likely the tapered rubber adapter supplied with the kit will be to small for the GV filler neck.

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Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #40 – March 29, 2021, 06:46:14 pm

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – March 29, 2021, 04:44:31 pm

Jerry...more then likely the tapered rubber adapter supplied with the kit will be to small for the GV filler neck.

Thanks Hans,

I believe the universal adapter will fit up to 5cm. If it's to small I'll have to locate a rubber reducer with a smaller hole to fit over the filler neck.

Jerry

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #41 – March 29, 2021, 07:19:08 pm

Quote from: coastprt – March 29, 2021, 06:46:14 pm

Thanks Hans,

I believe the universal adapter will fit up to 5cm. If it's to small I'll have to locate a rubber reducer with a smaller hole to fit over the filler neck.

Jerry

Or disconnect the overflow hose and put your vacuum servicing hose on it. place something under the negative pressure check valve in the cap and just service like that. Just remember to remove when you are done so as the cap can pressurize once again. Doesn't cost anything. Works perfect.
Scott

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #42 – March 30, 2021, 06:44:28 am

Brett,

What's the difference between the Fleetguard OAT and NOAT coolant and which should we be using?

Thanks,

Rich

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #43 – March 30, 2021, 10:46:10 am

Quote from: Rich Bowman – March 30, 2021, 06:44:28 am

Brett,

What's the difference between the Fleetguard OAT and NOAT coolant and which should we be using?

Thanks,

Rich

NOAT has nitrate added, OAT is what the factory put in mine

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #44 – March 30, 2021, 10:56:17 am

Quote from: Rich Bowman – March 30, 2021, 06:44:28 am

......What's the difference between the Fleetguard OAT and NOAT coolant and which should we be using?
Thanks, Rich

If you read clear thru the article in the link below, you will read that Caterpillar does not recommend any nitrate free anti freeze. If you were confused, and thus asked this question thinking there is only one answer, you may be surprised and will see you are not alone.

And that includes me. I would recommend doing your own research, as each mfg makes there own recommendations, and does their own research.

I remember when rv mfgs like Monaco, Beaver, and Country Coach used Caterpillar, Cummins, Detroit, and Navistar engines each rv mfg commented on them only buying one anti freeze for those several engine mfgs.

Three years ago after my research for my Cummins, I decided on Fleetguards ES Complete, a 1,000,000 mile anti freeze. Now after your question, I find Fleetguard makes four different ES Complete products, all marketed as 1,000,000 products, in both OAT and NOAT products. With some being nitrate free, and some not. I remember Toyota and many other mfgs made a big deal of nitrate free because of their bringing up of the issues with aluminum that they all used. Given my background with Toyota, I believe I installed the OAT product, and I am not sure. If I cannot find my receipts for the "lifetime" coolant, ES Compleat I installed in 2017, I may see a coolent change soon in my future due to the additions I made when I replaced the water pump. Thank you for your question.
Diesel-Coolant Industry Heats Up Over Nitrite

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #45 – March 30, 2021, 12:11:34 pm

Confusing at least... All this brings concerns to me because 2 years ago after replacing coolant in my 8.3 and using oat based coolant ie Pm brand, I believe my mechanic added a 16 ounce bottle of Penncool 3000. I have done research and can find a lot of information but can find zero do's and dont's. I can't find who mfg PM extended life coolant so I can call them but did reach Pennray additive who says they will call me back.. All this to try and prevent pitted liners and after reading here it seems we may have done the opposite.. If I can't find an answer today then I will drain coolant and darn well dread that.

Re: Coolants for Diesel Engines

Reply #46 – March 30, 2021, 12:53:40 pm

Here's a couple of excellent tutorials from Josh ( Adept Ape) on radiator flush and refill using a vacuum refill kit. This young man really knows his stuff.

Very easily accomplished with one of these kits and a great way to know if your system has leaks. No air pockets after refill. This is a must have for us DIYers.

I have 5 vehicles with radiators and this will make life much easier when coolant flush/change time comes!

Jerry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SfhBRvVbtg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6j0ZvjVj8Q

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