Skip to main content
Topic: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines] (Read 1388 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from fuel lines

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #25
Perhaps if the government had sunk as much money into recreational vehicle technology as was put into planes ?
Oh that's right RVs seldom if ever go to war, so that would explain the planes having all the hard work done.
Olde English, Perhaps a direct comparison of Airplanes to RV's is not fair. But then again our Foretravels when new were as expensive as a fair amount of non-commercial civil aircraft of the same period. So maybe the comparison isn't so out of line. I'm probably crazy, But the painting of the frame of our coaches is not hard work that takes an aeronautical engineer to figure out. All it takes is a bit of thoughtfulness. Our coaches have mild untreated steel frames surrounded by water absorbing foam that takes a very long time to dry once it's wet. So figuring out that a shot of paint might be the proper thing to do does not rise to the level of Foretravel needing to hire a rocket scientist.
Jerry & Nona and Kimeru the cat that thinks she's a dog
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #26
They still are using basically fiberglass insulation. If part of the skin is exposed it collects condensation. I worked water leaks that were only condensation, gallons of it. Everything gets pulled and replaced. Now imagine urine or Mercury. It's a dirty job

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #27
Olde English, Perhaps a direct comparison of Airplanes to RV's is not fair. But then again our Foretravels when new were as expensive as a fair amount of non-commercial civil aircraft of the same period. So maybe the comparison isn't so out of line. I'm probably crazy, But the painting of the frame of our coaches is not hard work that takes an aeronautical engineer to figure out. All it takes is a bit of thoughtfulness. Our coaches have mild untreated steel frames surrounded by water absorbing foam that takes a very long time to dry once it's wet. So figuring out that a shot of paint might be the proper thing to do does not rise to the level of Foretravel needing to hiring a rocket scientist.
100% agree

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #28
I agree with both of you, I had a poor shot at sarcasm, oops.
As far as the untreated mild steel frame well I never did figure out what the thinking was there. I used to send anything over 6 ft down to Texas to get hot dipped galvanizing on occasion. Most of my equipment was shot blasted and then powder coated though the odd customer would request heavy equipment paint, takes forever to go off but boy does it set up.
88 Grand Villa 36' ORED 3208 (throwaway)Cat.
 Build # 3150
Happiness is the maximum agreement of reality and desire.

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #29
I agree with both of you, I had a poor shot at sarcasm, oops.
As far as the untreated mild steel frame well I never did figure out what the thinking was there. I used to send anything over 6 ft down to Texas to get hot dipped galvanizing on occasion. Most of my equipment was shot blasted and then powder coated though the odd customer would request heavy equipment paint, takes forever to go off but boy does it set up.
Sarcasm via the typed word. That's a hornets nest for sure and has lead to a few kerfuffles on FB and other forums for me. After which I always try to remember to use (sarc) in my post when I'm being sarcastic. Too darn many rules to remember though. :facepalm:
Jerry & Nona and Kimeru the cat that thinks she's a dog
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #30
Fiat builds lots of different cars that are priced for the masses. The weather in Northern Europe is bad in winter, much like our northern states. I've driven behind the trucks that are full of salt with a spinning device on the back that evenly distributes the salt across the lanes. Fiat's cars were starting to rust out in less than two years so they followed Porsche's example and galvanized them. Much tougher to start doing on a car as Porsche went through over 100 different galvanizing types/mixes before they found one that paint would stick to for the car's life. Here is a great site for comparing most of the world's cars and they type of rust prevention they use:

Fiat cars list with types of processing  All cars listed, just select the make and model that you want to see.

Yes, why not galvanize the steel? Not that expensive and we would not have this problem today. If Fiat can do it on inexpensive cars, RVs can certainly do it. Not going to add much to the price of the car.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #31
An additional thought.

While it may seem like a lot of Foretravel bashing in these bulkhead threads. I personally don't look at Foretravel in a disparaging way.

I do think that keeping the bulkhead issue out in the open is in the long run a service to the perspective new Foretravel buyer about the one big Achilles heel of the Unicoach series. And then ask us questions and look at the various recommendations by the forum membership. 
Jerry & Nona and Kimeru the cat that thinks she's a dog
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #32
It wasn't the unpainted metal that caused the bulkhead issue. Not saying it shouldn't have been painted. The issue was the drill tip tec screws, that stripped out in the 1st part of the channel, then barely held in the second part.That was the big oversight. Probably should have been bolted.....Could have, would have, should have.

They are 20+ year old coaches, and many are still trucking. Lack of maintenance / inspection, with broke bolts letting water in, is the issue. Paint, yes might have slowed rusting down.But you would have still had a bulkhead issue. Many are still holding together, with no issues.

My coach came apart so bad, it broke the vertical angle irons the 4 link (trailing arms) are attached to. There was zero rust issues. Unpainted framing had nothing to do with it.Tubing was welded between the vertical angle irons, and the lower part was welded back with angle iron after a come along was used to pull the coach back together.. I have no bolts. Been this way for 8-9 yrs.

Believe it or not, and I'am sure this will freak you all out,I have scrubbed my lower bays out with soap ,water and a garden hose. I have zero rust issues. I inspect the belly all the time.

I think we have beaten this horse to death...... :D  :D  :D  :D

Cheers
Chris
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #33
Interesting thread.  I knew VW did alot of the early rust prevention research when I toured their plants in the 70s.  Also Toyota talked about similar research in the 80s when I toured their factories. Interesting to see which mfg partial dip galvanized and which ones do a full dip.  Then Winnebago in the 90s talked about their use of electro coating steel for rust prevention and the fact they had govt contracts to provide this coating for the military.  Then last week I saw a private party that purchased a 20 yr old ex military 4wd truck painted sand beige , talking about how hard the paint was on the painted steel frame to remove the paint so that he could weld as he converted it to a dump truck.  I remember Alpine talked about their painted white steel frames, not for rust prevention qualities, but foe ease in eying issues or liquid leaks, oil, etc.  I also remember rv mfgs talking about how each increase in $$$ would change their market share.  Having sold MBZ, Toyota, VW, and Lexus retail, I always thought this rv market share argument bogus as I saw them cut corners.  In the 80's Toyota at their factory indoctrination with their engineers said they did not care if they did not make a profit for 20 years as long as they eventually thru making the best product dominated that particular models market.  I came back to the US in 1986 thinking I did want to work for a company not making a profit.  I looked up the profit for this company called Toyota.  They were fifth in the world.  The four companies ahead of them were oil companies, Shell, etc.  I put 200,000 miles each on Toyota vehicles bought new in 1992, a Lexus SC400 and a ES300. 

"Galvanized steel has been an essential structural component around the world for nearly 200 years.
Just seven years after William Crawford's patent, in 1844, the British Royal Navy started using galvanized steel in construction of ships at the Pembroke Docks in Wales. British steelmakers were using 10,000 tons of zinc annually for protecting iron from rust by 1850. The production of galvanized steel soared after 1916 when an American assigned to the 29th Company Royal Engineers of the British Army, Major Peter Norman Nissen, invented the semi-cylindrical Nissen hut. This structure came to be known in the US as a Quonset hut.  Then throughout the rest of the twentieth century, galvanized steel found its way into a tremendous number of non-military applications uses like:

To build the lighting columns that provide nighttime lighting for roadways
To build pylons that support high-voltage power distribution to factories, hospitals, and schools.
Used in frameworks for buildings that will have a maintenance-free life expectancy of 50 years or more."
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #34
Jack,

Good post. I thought the galvanizing link was interesting and even eye opening on some vehicles.

Our U300 appeared just about rust free when we bought it and still looks that way. But you probably have read and seen the photos of all the rust that I found behind the big angle iron on the bulkheads. Galvanizing and using fasteners designed for that kind of application instead of commercial dry steel building construction fasteners would have solved the entire problem.

Like Toyota, you have to look to the future and not quick profits. That includes hiring engineers bright enough to look beyond today. That is also why we also have a Toyota.

Question: What do you call someone who graduated medical school at the bottom of their class. Answer: Doctor

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #35
For me it's not so much what things are painted with or coated with.  It's what does it take to get the coating / protection off.   

 Spent a few years back in the 80s working with a friend who owned a chemical cleaning/stripping business.  He was into vintage cars so we spent most of the time "stripping" the paint or rust off of car parts. Al kinds of em. New old, whole chassis, frames and even industrially painted stuff. 

 Some (most) of the coatings, you dip the thing in the tank and immediately the paint or whatever coating started bubbling off.  I hour later , out of the tank and hose off the paint.  Other coatings were tougher and took overnight and then high (4000) lb pressure washing every inch.  Didn't matter, imron, powder coat, galvanized they ALL washed off.

 EXCEPT  Mercedes vehicles. I hated to see them come in.  You could leave the chassis in the tank for a week and nothing.  Sure the exterior paint you could eventually get off but the White undercoating NEVER came off. Didn't matter what we tried it got shipped out with 80% of the undercoating still on it. Customers were still happy cause Mother Nature wasn't going to get that undercoat off either.  Whatever coating or process they were using was absolutely bullet proof. 

  Moral is.  Unless your coating my Foretravel with that stuff or process, it ain't good enough to be on par with the rest of the way Foretravel's are built.
  Premium coaches get premium stuff today and always.  Cause paint ain't gonna stop rust. I've seen it too many times. 
Robert and Susan
 1995 36' 280 WTBI 8.3 3060r
 1200 watts on the roof, 720 Ah of lithium's
 Build # 4637. Motorcade # 17599
        FMCA  # 451505
        18  Wrangler JLUR

 

Re: Did Foretravel cheapen out on things? [split from Re: fuel lines]

Reply #36

I think we have beaten this horse to death...... :D  :D  :D  :D

Agree - it's run its course and also gotten way off the subject of RVs (this is not the "here's what the European/Japanese car companies or airplane manufacturers do" forum).

I'll lock it since there's really no reason to continue the discussion.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320