Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #25 – October 02, 2012, 09:54:10 am In my former SOB I had an absorption fridge. It seemed ok but in my 06 all electric Phenix I LOVE my residential fridge. I can run it on my inverters when I need to and since my house batts are charged while driving there is no issue of running the batts down. Of course I live in South Louisiana so it is HOT and I need my roof air most of the time so the genny is on most of the time. But when traveling in the winter and when we were up in Yellowstone last yr the fridge did just fine with no genny on. Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #26 – October 02, 2012, 10:35:09 am Quote from: Paul Smith – October 02, 2012, 01:44:41 amWhy is this? With the engine running, and the inverter on, the refrigerator should be able to get AC.best, paulThe refrigerator, like the air conditioners, is normally wired to run on shore power or generator. It is not wired to run on the inverter. This was the practice on older coaches that had gas/electric refrigerators. Residential style refrigerators will be wired differently.It is my understanding that some older coaches have an outlet behind the refrigerator that is supplied by the inverter. That outlet would be for an ice maker. If the refrigerator were plugged to that outlet, rather than the "standard" refrigerator outlet, it would run on the inverter.We have chosen to keep the "old" (1997) systems so far. They serve our needs. As things require repair or upgrade, and technology changes, our choices will change. Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #27 – October 02, 2012, 10:49:06 am Lon,The backer board should keep the flames off the ceiling area and before they can attack the fiberglas roof vent, the rodent nest will have burned. The amount of material in the nest can't sustain combustion for more than 30 seconds or so. The ceiling of the fridge compartment in our coach was the carpet material used for the headliner and would have caught fire quickly. There is also wood up there. The rodent nest in your coach must have spread to the luan and sustained combustion long enough for the fire to spread to the ceiling. Another reason to occasionally take a look in the access door. I was also thinking of replacing the roof vent with an aluminum type.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #28 – October 02, 2012, 10:53:09 am I had to have the cooling unit replaced on the refrigerator in my 1988 SOB after about 15 years. There was a strong ammonia smell on the outside, and it had been in storage with the refrigerator turned off.In almost 30 years of RVing, I've never seen a nest of any sort (mouse, bird, insect) in the refrigerator (or water heater or furnace for that matter) burner or flue area. Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #29 – October 02, 2012, 12:24:57 pm Paul SmithYour refer 120VAC supply is proabably the same as mine was from the factory.Open the outside access door to the refer and you should see two duplex recepticles (like the thing on the wall you plug your toaster cord into). One will be brown, labelled "refridgerator" and it is connected to the main 120VAC panel which is supplied power from the genset or shore (if the breaker is on). The other is white, labelled "icemaker" and it provides power from the inverter panel (if the breaker is on). Plug your fridge into the "icemaker" recepticle to run from inverter.I found this setup inconvenient, so I changed the wiring to have just one duplex recepticle behind the fridge which can be supplied power from genset, shore, or inverter by making changes at the main 120VAC power panel. Both refer and icemaker are plugged into this one duplex recepticle. Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #30 – October 02, 2012, 12:38:20 pm For those of you considering using a residential refer and running off solar. I have a friend who runs a chest freezer using four golf cart batteries and one 135 watt panel. This setup is in an outside sun clothe room in the California desert and runs all year, even in 120 degrees.The freezer is made by SunDanzer and has a very efficient 12v compressor. Sunfrost makes similar refers and freezers which are very efficient and target folks who are off the grid. Sunfrost refers use about 2/3 as many watts as a standard residential refer. This is how I would convert to a compressor refer. Much higher cost than a refer from Lowes, limited selection and sizes, but very efficient and high quality, with very long life. Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #31 – October 02, 2012, 01:11:59 pm Likely Danfoss compressors Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #32 – October 02, 2012, 02:29:54 pm Sunfrost makes similar refers and freezers which are very efficient and target folks who are off the grid. Sunfrost refers use about 2/3 as many watts as a standard residential refer. This is how I would convert to a compressor refer. Much higher cost than a refer from Lowes, limited selection and sizes, but very efficient and high quality, with very long life.And they make them for 12v, too!< http://www.thenaturalabode.com/house_appliances/energy_star_refrigerators.htm?gclid=CJeG66364rICFWThQgodsFwAVw#cabinets >best, paul Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #33 – October 02, 2012, 03:11:58 pm After reading some of the refrigerator fire accounts, I got to wondering if the two Valterra refrigerator fans (Valterra A10-2618VP FridgeCool 12 Volt Exhaust Fan) that I installed might make a fire worse by increasing the draft up through the refrigerator opening. And they might make any Halon fire extinguisher less effective for the same reason. Does anyone have any thoughts on this possible problem? One possible way around this problem might be to install an Atwood thermal fuse (Atwood Thermostat Cut-Off Kit, #93866) in the fan circuit. These thermal fuses are designed to turn off the water heater in case of a fire (190 degrees). George Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #34 – October 02, 2012, 03:12:41 pm There are also offerings that are 120VAC/12V from Nova Kool and Vitrifrigo that are dimensionally more friendly to our 36' U270 which doesn't have room for a 34.5" fridge cabinet. I believe these use Danfoss compressors and are pretty common on boats. Cost wise, a bit less than a new Dometic or Norcold would be for the size that will fit our coach. I think this may be our upgrade path as we often will be staying at Thousand Trails parks and using their electricty for free. I can't imagine it would make sense to have only the 120VAC residential option as that would entail (once we have a PV system) of using solar to charge the house batteries and then the inverter/converter combo to run it while boondocking. Having the 12VDC opion alone would mean having to run the inverter more to make use of park power. I am still just in the research stages though, so perhaps that will change. Cost wise, the Lowes opion is the most attractive, followed by installing a new Amish cooling unit in our old refer (and then having to put up with the fire hazard and the need for level operation). The Amish option does sound somewhat attractive considering their reputation for quality control and the thicker walled tubing they use as regards the longevity and fire issue. Also, I would definetly take a cue from Pierce and install the Hardi Backer (as well as a fire suppression system) while doing the change over. Decisions... Oh well, what is the fun in knowing it all?DonQuote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – October 02, 2012, 12:38:20 pmFor those of you considering using a residential refer and running off solar. I have a friend who runs a chest freezer using four golf cart batteries and one 135 watt panel. This setup is in an outside sun clothe room in the California desert and runs all year, even in 120 degrees.The freezer is made by SunDanzer and has a very efficient 12v compressor. Sunfrost makes similar refers and freezers which are very efficient and target folks who are off the grid. Sunfrost refers use about 2/3 as many watts as a standard residential refer. This is how I would convert to a compressor refer. Much higher cost than a refer from Lowes, limited selection and sizes, but very efficient and high quality, with very long life. Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #35 – October 02, 2012, 05:34:04 pm Have you looked into what a typical Nova Kool or Vitrifrigo cost?Quote from: acousticart – October 02, 2012, 03:12:41 pmThere are also offerings that are 120VAC/12V from Nova Kool and Vitrifrigo that are dimensionally more friendly to our 36' U270 which doesn't have room for a 34.5" fridge cabinet. I believe these use Danfoss compressors and are pretty common on boats. Cost wise, a bit less than a new Dometic or Norcold would be for the size that will fit our coach. I think this may be our upgrade path as we often will be staying at Thousand Trails parks and using their electricty for free. I can't imagine it would make sense to have only the 120VAC residential option as that would entail (once we have a PV system) of using solar to charge the house batteries and then the inverter/converter combo to run it while boondocking. Having the 12VDC opion alone would mean having to run the inverter more to make use of park power. I am still just in the research stages though, so perhaps that will change. Cost wise, the Lowes opion is the most attractive, followed by installing a new Amish cooling unit in our old refer (and then having to put up with the fire hazard and the need for level operation). The Amish option does sound somewhat attractive considering their reputation for quality control and the thicker walled tubing they use as regards the longevity and fire issue. Also, I would definetly take a cue from Pierce and install the Hardi Backer (as well as a fire suppression system) while doing the change over. Decisions... Oh well, what is the fun in knowing it all?Don Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #36 – October 02, 2012, 06:02:58 pm It gets close to 2K... the best price for the Nova Kool 9.1 cubic foot AC/DC model I have come across is $1700 here Nova Kool RFU9000 9.1 cu.ft (258 liters) Two Door Upright Refrigerator/FreezerThis is a unit that will fit in the space we have... Plusses: Size, quiet (reportedly), 120VAC/12VDC operation. Minuses: Cost, vents out the front, current draw 5.5 ampsVitrifrigo has a few models of similar cost and size... still looking, we are a long way from pulling the trigger on this idea! I am certainly open to hearing others thoughts on this! The cost is quite similar to what CW and other places have on the Dometic or Norcolds as I recall. I would much rather have the Amish cooling unit upgrade than get a newer version of what we have. Luckily, our fridge was working well when I last had power to the coach (shore power and batteries have been disconnected for all of the welding I have been doing on the basement rebuild project for a long while now... too long by any measure! However, my awareness of the fire potential has me wanting to address this sooner rather than later.DonQuote from: Benjie Zeller – October 02, 2012, 05:34:04 pmHave you looked into what a typical Nova Kool or Vitrifrigo cost? Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #37 – October 02, 2012, 07:31:14 pm How about just retrofitting the cold plates and compressor into the existing refrigerator box? I've seen the Danfoss kit sold for this purpose but don't recall the cost. Probably about the same as buying a whole new unit.Chuck Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #38 – October 02, 2012, 07:58:55 pm George has a point about any fans that have been installed. They would accelerate any fire so would be good to install a fuseable link to shut them down.I did not mention that when all the backer board has been installed, rodents no longer have access to the compartment and there is no nesting material there even if they did. Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #39 – October 02, 2012, 09:33:21 pm QuoteSunfrost makes similar refers and freezers which are very efficient and target folks who are off the grid. Sunfrost refers use about 2/3 as many watts as a standard residential refer. This is how I would convert to a compressor refer. Much higher cost than a refer from Lowes, limited selection and sizes, but very efficient and high quality, with very long life. Sunfrost makes similar refers and freezers which are very efficient and target folks who are off the grid. Sunfrost refers use about 2/3 as many watts as a standard residential refer. This is how I would convert to a compressor refer. Much higher cost than a refer from Lowes, limited selection and sizes, but very efficient and high quality, with very long life.Thanks, Wyatt.These specs are pretty interesting:Sun Frost Refrigerator specificationsThe width of an R12 Refrigerator/Freezer at 34.5in is about 2in less than my Dometic and its height is about 14in less than my Dometic at 43.5in. So there's the possibility of a nice storage area overhead.Even more interesting, at 70F it wants only 13.5amp hrs/day and only 23 amp hrs/day at 90F.Its depth is 27.75in which might be about as much room left after the Dometic is out.And at $2400 for the AC version it's a steal ;o)It looks interesting to me.I just noticed the amp hrs above are for 12v. 0.29 kwhrs and 0.47 kwhs for 120vbest, paul Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #40 – October 02, 2012, 09:49:33 pm One wonders what the depth is w/o the doors and the 'top hat'. For an earlier coach like mine the windshield would have to come out to pass any one of these through. I kind of likes the RF16...Even when my Dometic was replaceable it was right at 3K... Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #41 – October 02, 2012, 10:50:24 pm QuoteOne wonders what the depth is w/o the doors and the 'top hat'. For an earlier coach like mine the windshield would have to come out to pass any one of these through. I kind of likes the RF16... A note says 3.75 in is needed to open the doors. This could mean the depth w/o doors is 24 in. I sent an email asking about this.My side windows have a vertical opening of 25.5 in with the window in. But the entire window would have to be removed to allow the 34.5 in width in.My driver's window is about 33 by 38. So removing it could work.best, paul Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #42 – October 03, 2012, 03:12:03 pm QuoteOne wonders what the depth is w/o the doors and the 'top hat'. For an earlier coach like mine the windshield would have to come out to pass any one of these through. I kind of likes the RF16... Sun Frost just confirmed to me that the depth is 24 in w/o the doors.And yes, the RF16 is tempting. But that takes out the cabinets under the Dometic. Plus I seem to recall there are some electrical?, or some such, items in the back of these cabinets. If so, I wonder how high that would raise the refrigerator off the floor. In my space there is a light barrier about 22 in back from the face of the Dometic.best, paul Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #43 – October 03, 2012, 04:13:57 pm Paul,Once I had the old Dometic out, I had to rebuild the refrigerator floor area to take the flat bottom Norcold. A chop saw, screw gun and a little time made the flat area seen the the photos. I still have the bottom compartment with the vac in it plus the new Norcold is larger than the Dometic it replaced.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #44 – October 03, 2012, 04:23:54 pm In my case, with the Sun Frost 3.75 in thick door off, and the entrance screen door removed, the now 22 in deep refrigerator would easily go thru the front door.best, paul Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #45 – October 03, 2012, 04:25:56 pm I would probably build a base out of 4" X 4" posts. Little bit of added weight, but easy to anchor... Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #46 – October 03, 2012, 04:59:52 pm Exterior depth was 27.75 on all - so it would be 24" which would fit my 95 (barely) Quote Selected
Re: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire Reply #47 – October 03, 2012, 05:37:10 pm I just received a message from a member that my album was locked. Apologies.Here are the four photos as attachments.Pierce Quote Selected
Topic: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire