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Topic: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear (Read 1759 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #25
I have always kept records of all service I've had done to every vehicle I have owned.  I even keep a log in each vehicle of all the fuel I've bought.  A habit I picked up from my father.

Three years ago after I bought the present pickup truck, I sold a 1998 GMC 2500 that included records of everything that had happened to it since new, including all the gas purchased, including date, mileage, and cost.

Wayne

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #26
. . .
In general, some quality dealers do not ASSUME that service work is up to date and pay service department to change all fluids. . .
Thanks!  That's an angle that had not occurred to me.

Wayne

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #27
Catfishbob,
Would love to have you post a Cummins Bulletin that tells of the Cam Bearing issue at 800,000 miles.

Several mentions around the m11 rebuilding sites of if any thing is needed the cam bearings seem to be the weakest link. 

Not a cummins bulletin.  At least not that I know or care.  You could call rincon truck service who is a cummins dealer in San Clemente, ca and ask for Craig and ask him about his comment to me, Bob Hulka, regarding the cam bearings?

 I had customers write down things I talked about then shop and research what I told them then come back literally years later and purchase.  Was one of the only way to sell a Foretravel versus the pretty other brands in those days was to educate them on power to weight ratios, ground clearance, lower center of gravity, white gel coat versus paint, a travel club, overall quality. I had Oshkosh print an engineering drawing of the ored chassis that was great fun to fold out as it was 6 feet or longer.  Great things to point at.

Plus the 300 ataac cat got 10 mpg and would climb a six percent interstate grade at up to 90mph. 

Dick and Judy engle bought a ored 18 months after we started talking and after taking delivery bought me a photo of their coach with a ranger pickup on a Demco car hauler and he wrote on the back that the coach went up cajon pass towing the ranger faster than the ranger would do it by itself.

Used to weigh the coaches prior to a show and post the weight slips in the coach so the customer would ask. 

I may if time permits go into the truck rebuild sites where there were mentions of the cam bearing being a shorter service item than a full major rebuild item.  Several mentions and Craig brought it up on his own. 

Please call him.  If necessary I will get his contact info for you?

He brought it up at the same time we were talking about the temp issues. 

I understand you have long machinery experience. 

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #28
Several mentions around the m11 rebuilding sites of if any thing is needed the cam bearings seem to be the weakest link. 

Google search showed a bulletin tb2125 from the engine builders association referring to the availability of over size cam bearings to replace the worn ones in l10 and m11 though 2003 model years. Caused block damage that otherwise required a block replacement

Two page bulletin.

Bob
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #29
"Plus the 300 ataac cat got 10 mpg and would climb a six percent interstate grade at up to 90mph."

OK, assuming 34,000 GCW coach and toad (happens to be the weight for which I have data, to maintain 55 MPH on a 6% grade requires 402 HP AT THE REAR WHEELS!  90 MPH-- so far off the charts that it defies physics-- probably more than Dave's 12 cylinder DD. As a reference, 45 MPH only required 310 HP. and 35 MPH 218 HP. This from Caterpillar Corp's "Understanding Coach/RV Performance". To do only 80 MPH on FLAT GROUND requires 259 HP at the rear wheels ((likely all a 300 HP engine (flywheel rating) could do at the rear wheels)).

Perhaps the "at up to..." applies here.

 
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #30
"Plus the 300 ataac cat got 10 mpg and would climb a six percent interstate grade at up to 90mph."

OK, assuming 34,000 GCW coach and toad (happens to be the weight for which I have data, to maintain 55 MPH on a 6% grade requires 402 HP AT THE REAR WHEELS!  90 MPH-- so far off the charts that it defies physics-- probably more than Dave's 12 cylinder DD. As a reference, 45 MPH only required 310 HP. and 35 MPH 218 HP. This from Caterpillar Corp's "Understanding Coach/RV Performance".

Perhaps the "at up to..." applies here.

A 1987-1989 GVF 36' ored weighed 21,000 pounds.  Tiny box.  On a 26,000 chassis.  Actually rode somewhat poorly.

Used to switch the 250 "9r" tired ored shocks for the ored 300 shocks that Oshkosh has speced differently for the 10r tires on it.

A customer Chet Otting who owned a large fleet of garbage trucks heard this and laughed.

I asked hi if it did get 10mpg was he a buyer?  He said yes.

Next week we took a in stock coach to the local fuel station and he filled the tank.

Drove up cajon pass at 65-70.  No toad.  Idled around for 1/2 hour.  Drove back to Irvine and went back to the same gas station.  179 miles. 17.1 gallons of fuel.

His coach had a front water fill like I did a lot of as the water tank was right behind the grille.  A hose fitting there allowed pulling head in to a source of water. 

Was a man of his word. ,yes 21,000#.  Filled water and fuel tank.  These unicoaches are big tanks compared to an ored 300.

Favorite ride was to demo one and as we rode along talking and getting to highway speed they invariably commented that the coach was noisy.  Told them to look at the speedo.


OMG we are at 85mph.  Yea. ,keep the cruise on.  Hardly lost a sale.  No one wanted 40 mph up cajon oasis versus 80.  On cruise.  Left lane motorhome.  Told them that many times. 

Probably why the poster here with the 500hp upgrade REALLY  likes his coach.  Power to weight ratio.  Zero to 60 in 30 seconds.  No brake preload.  Just floored.

Marquis was 40 seconds. ,40 mph up cajon. 

Same exactly as a 91-92 marquis.  Gvw and gvwr.  37,000 combined with the mandatory jeep Cherokee.

Same as my coach.  Same feeling drive and rode.  Exactly.

More body roll but not much.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #31
The winner for horse hockey is the 90 mph up  6% grade and 10 mpg with the 300 ataac Scaterpillar in an thing the qualifies as a RV, my guess it would have to be under 6,000 lb to pull that off.
Always love the Scatterpillar dreamers.
Yes the 12V-71T with the MCI at 33,000 lb would do the 80mph on the 6%, but fuel mileage on a good day, flat road at 70 mph was 5.9 mpg, when it got pushed on mountains, I assure you it was under 1 mpg, all part of the big sandbox games and the results were the smiles.
You have to smile sometimes, and have the memories too. Was a great time.
Dave M

Foretravel sold lots of the sane exact coach.  Hundreds.  The 250 cat 3208 got nearly nine mpg the 300 worth its bigger taller tires got ten at 65-70.

We took Kay and bev Lyons 1987 36'  300 ataac trade in skiing in Colorado in dec 1988 and after freezing the tanks and catching cold I left telluride, Colorado at 7:30 am and needed to get out of the extreme cold.  Drove nice until I got out of the ice then I opened it up.  Had 13,000 mikes in it.

Drove from telluride to Costa Mesa, California straight through.  863 miles and crossed the Colorado river right at dark.  Straight on #40 at 3,000 rpm redline  gets almost exactly 90mph. Had the fuel gel out on the way to co. Btw.    Not recommended. Do not do what I did.  When I filled up the coach prior to the delivery of it to the next owners, the Woods,  it got 8 mpg for that run. 

Was never broken in by the Lyons.  Would only run 2,800 rpm max when we left irvine. 

I had no tow car in these days and a 21,000 pound actual weight 228" WB grand villa was so maneuverable it was not needed. 

Coach would make a turn from a two lane street onto another without crossing the center line in the intersection.  Did not have to wait for the intersection to clear at all.

Joe Broderick, my salesman said five years later that he finally ran across the woods and they wanted to thank  me for the coach as I told them I had replaced the belts and completely serviced the coach and had put new batteries in the 18month old coach and promised them it would be right.  They were newby's to rv'ing so I wanted to give them a checked out broken in rig.  They had done nothing but oil changes on the coach for the next five years and 50k miles. Not even the belts other than tightening.

Mr b2 from Australia mentions the excellent mileage. 

Personal friend still has an 87 300 in the austin, tx and it gets 9mpg with a tow car.  Bet its still tight also.  Small, light box. 

My 97 m11 on one kansas run with no gen or aqua hot and no winds and 60-65 got 10mpg on a 700 mile leg.  That's at 35,500 pounds.

Average as others have posted is 8mpg all around with the gen and aqua hot figured in that. 

3208  300 743 pound feet torque did well in the oreds.

No slides, short, light box with tall tires. 

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #32
Bob,
Clearly my info from Cummins seems to be wrong for which I apologize for my wrong information on the cam bearings, will dig deeper into this issue for sure.
Thanks
Dave M

No problem.  Read every forum I could find on m11 reliability after I bought one.  Non issue for us in the miles we will ever use.

Cleo had 300k on the u280 I built for him before he gave it to his daughter who may be still driving it.

Had another 300k 3208 300 cat owner back then Pete and Robbie youngdahl.  Never turned the motor off it seemed.  Problems with the rare parts in the side drive radiator stuff was what he mentioned to me ten years later.

Bob

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #33

I bought my Coach 1989 Grand Villa, 300 HP Cat, with 107200 miles on it, the hours are 2300 on the motor, For a

Diesel, Thats more or less, Just run in, Its nothing, out of the lifetime of the Diesel Motor and Gear Train,

Thats 4400 miles a year, So it hasnt been sitting around for too long, Fingers crossed,

Very low miles in 25 years, Means its been sitting for a long time, Inbuilt deteriation, surface Rust builds up, Start your motor and the rust chews out the seals, Permanent Caravan Park RV's, Dont buy one, It will give you grief,

Truck diesels here get well over a million miles before they are mechanically needing repair,
It is a Truck chassis and motor, Oshkosh came here originally as Garbage compactor Trucks, They Had to be reliable,

I now have 110,000 miles up on it, Very pleased with it all round, Finding spares for it, Hahahahaha, Yeah, Hahahaha

Its nearly all Ford Bits or very close,, You need a Mechanic with a Brain, That bit your holding in your hand from the Grand Villa, ????????????

AHHH, Thats the same bit thats installed in a Volkswagon Kombi van, (Example only) But I think you get the Idea, Some thing else will fit it with the same part Number,

We have Decimal here, The Coach is all Imperial, We used to have Imperial, I grew up with it, Young salespeople

here,  Think it is some Weird Yankee thread, Duhhhhhh, I always go for the old Blokes now, They do have some idea on Imperial threads,

When I started looking, 10 MPG on a 12 ton Truck, at 75 MPH, with a 300 HP Diesel Motor pushing it,

Your Dreaming, Hahahaahaha,

Around 4 MPG, you might be some where close, Diesels are noted for their Grunt, Not Economy,

But no, I am getting just over 14 MPG, At 100 KPH, (60 MPH) Thats our Maximum Speed limit for Heavy Trucks and Buses here, Coaches inclusive, Exceed it at your own Risk, Very Harsh Penaltys Apply, Including Seizure of your vehicle, You walk home, If you dont get jailed on the spot, Hoon Laws apply to all Vehicles, 45 Kays over any limit, Your vehicle is on a Tow Truck at your expense, Etc Etc,

But our Gallons are Bigger than yours,  Hahahahahahaha,  ( I couldnt resist that one,) So I go further,  3.8 litres US against 4.2 litres to a Gallon here, In OZ,

Economy is Excellent, My V8 GTS car only got 17 MPG, So there is no way I would complain about the Coachs Economy,
Change your way of thinking, What actually do you have in a Foretravel, Looking past the Glitz and Shiny Bits,

You have a very Heavy Duty Military Style Truck Chassis, Oshkosh, Virtually Indestructible, With a Solid Power Train to Drive it,

Parts are easy to fix and repair, interchangeable with other trucks, If you know what your looking for,

On top of that you have a Shed, A very Robust Body Shell that was built to last with Solid Timber thruout,

As long as I keep my roof sealed, No water ingress, My Grand Villa will still be cruising down the highways in 50 years time, Safely,
My motor Puffs a bit of white smoke, I think its just the injectors that need a clean, Its not enough for me to worry me,

There aren't many people likely to run up 500,000 Miles in a Foretravel,  50,000 Miles would be the average life time max on most individuals, For a Coach,

My motor came with some very Runny Thick Black Sludge that was at some time back in its dim dark past, Was OIL, I think, Hahahaha
My V8 300 HP CAT Diesel motor doesnt wind over when starting, It just starts instantly when the key is turned, I cant believe it starts like it does, Instantly, Nothing else I own does,

If its belching black smoke, Has Clunks, Bangs, squeelling, (not fan Belts) or other strange noises coming from the motor or gear train,
Walk away fast, Your looking at 20 Grand in repairs, And there are plenty of good Foretravels for sale out there, That dont require Repairs,

From my point of view, a 25 year old Coach needs at least 50,000 miles up on it to ensure all the internals of every thing has a bit of good wear and lubrication, Mechanically,

The Shed itself, well Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And how the PO treated and maintained it, And its obvious when you look at it,
A POS, is still a POS, And you cant hide it in a Foretravel, It stands out, Look at a couple of different ones, You can see the difference,
I drive up my drive a bit over idle, I can accelerate very easily, It will scorch away, My drive is 1 in 3 at the top, The Coach doesnt even know the hill is there, 450 feet of it,

I also heard some horror storys on the 3208 Motor, after getting onto the 3208 engine Forums, and reading extensively, They are exactly that, Horror storys, Nothing more than Storys, A few blew up, But every thing man made will break down eventually,  A few down dont make them all faulty, Overall, They have a pretty good record for reliability,

My Two Cents worth, Hahahaha, 












Cheers,
Brian,

Toys, 1989 Grand Villa, 36 foot, ORED with 300 Hp Cat. 2002 Gemini 34 foot Sailing Catamaran, 2006 Honda Super Blackbird 1100XX, 2002 ZR7 750 Kawasaki,
25 HP Chinese tractor and Backhoe,

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #34
Brian, Great Story and spot on. I had an 88 and loved it!

We called it Old Faithful! ^.^d
The selected media item is not currently available.
My advice and experiences are Free, you decide if they are worth anything .

John - driving Old Faithful
1994 U280 GV
C8.3, Banks, Pacbrake, 900 watts, Resonator, XLHD tow dolly
Retired Army Warrant Officer

Life is what you make of it - if it is lemons, make lemonade!
Former Coaches:
1988 GV 40' ORED 300HP CAT - 9 years
1990 Winnebago LeSharo - 3 years
2000 Newmar London Aire - 3 years (#18 of 23 produced)

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #35
I bought my Coach 1989 Grand Villa, 300 HP Cat, with 107200 miles on it, the hours are 2300 on the motor,

Yes the mileage is very good.

The 1100 series cats previous to the 3208 were throwaway motors with a not good reputation.  Not so the 3208's

Puff of smoke at a hard throttle input should go away in five seconds.  Plus smoking at altitude. 

There are four adjustments if memory serves me on the fuel system.  Pretty easy stuff to tinker with.


Your fourteen mpg with an imperial gallon is excellent.  Most here were driven harder because it wanted to go.

Third gear tops out at 60 full revs.  Learned to downshift the trans and rev it hard in the mountains versus torque.  Full revs was at 2950 rpm.  Shame you get into so much trouble going past 60mph.  Coaches low profile and top end hp Diesel engine loved high speeds.  Cruise all day at full revs.  Remember a trucker on a long uphill commenting about getting my coach on a hill till I passed him at around 80 so that he called out on the cb radio.  "Grand villa, Whatca' running?"  My reply was a 300 cat at  21,000 pounds.  "Not fair."

So much fun because the cars and trucks would play with me in the hills figuring they were faster until I passed 80 then they would all drop behind.  Slowly unwound the speedo cable till you finally backed off.

No gen or aqua hot to use fuel.  Only the motor. 

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #36
I second Bob and Brian...our '89 ORED 3208T (171,000 on her) is getting 10-12  MPG on our trips to Florida from Michigan. I give a range because our last trip I had no speedo or cruise control.  My foot was a little "heavy" in GA and OH lol...we love it!
Jeff
Jeff & Carrie
2023 Geneva 31VA
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED "The Button Pusher" - GONE 🥺

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #37
I second Bob and Brian...our '89 ORED 3208T (171,000 on her) is getting 10-12  MPG on our trips to Florida from Michigan. I give a range because our last trip I had no speedo or cruise control.  My foot was a little "heavy" in GA and OH lol...we love it!
Jeff

Biggest issue was filling the tank.  Learned to drop the air with the jacks down and extend the front jacks to max.  Careful.  Must be level area.  Period.

Second is the liquida sloshing  at lights.  Coach rocks sitting at stops.  If you are sensitive to things going on its noticeable.

Third is the bump steer as you go through dips.  Evidenced by the steering wheel movement as the jacks are extended. 

Most over steered the coach because of it. 

Verify the ride height valves return to the exact ride height.

Spicer 710 needs the spool centered in the steering box then the Pittman arm remounted.  Bench job.  Its in the manual from Oshkosh. Three hour labor.

If its off center coach will sometimes dart to the edge of the road for no apparent reason.  Was supposed to get done after the first three hours use.  Most were not.

My m11 is gutless feeling on top end runout versus the 3208 and 555 cummins and even the 8.2 as far as the curves on a graph. 

I bet the exhaust is the problem on mine.  As everyone already has posted here.

Bob
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #38
My comments concerning the 3208 Cat is prior to about 1982 the3208 was popular in Ford F7000 trucks and had a terrible, while attending a Cat school at Peoria Ill, the comment was made that the issues on the 3208 WOULD be resolved. From my view point they were never a choice I would make having worked on them.  Admitt the 3208 is the quickest starting engine I am aware of, no idea about the fuel burn, but still a smaller engine for this gear head.
Oh, yes Cat considers them as throw away or did. Know the remans are available for big $$$$.
Dave M

The 1100's were made in Ireland?  Something like that.  The 3208's were not sleeved as I remember them but factory remans were definately available.  Field pumps were the biggest issue If any.

636 cu in 3208 versus 659 m11 versus a 852 two stroke 12v71 is no contest. 

What was yours?  700hp? Had a few boys get there stick 8v's over 600 but one blew the blower off finally.

Like the rev better on the "v" engines for us gear heads.

Exception was the n14 cummins and the series 60 turned up in the original unicoach.

Cruise control high gear up a 13 percent grade. 

The n14 was 444hp and 1850 torque in a 30k weight signature.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #39

That 60 MPH in third gear is a real nuisance,  Its just under clicking into top gear, so I have to go just a bit over to make top gear, 65 MPH,
We get booked for one KPH over the limit, Revenue raising,

1800 revs at about 62 MPH in top gear, Its very cheap to run, Magic thing to drive, If it wasnt so big, I would drive it every where,

Top gear was a surprise for me, It was just slowly winding out in third, Then it dropped into top gear, The back went down and away it went, Hahahhaha, Up a long hill at about 5 degrees,  WOW, This thing sure has some GRUNT and it goes as well,
 
70 - 75 would be a very good cruising speed on my G/V, It putts along nicely at that speed, I cant if I want to retain my licences, Here, You lose one, You lose the Lot, Truck, Car, Bike, Boat, Your walking, End of story,

Hahahaha, Cruise Control, Set it and forget it, As long as your under the limit,

I pull into the left slow lane on hills, Cars and trucks pull out to pass, They pull back in behind me at the top of the hill,
Tsk Tsk Tsk, I havent slowed down have I, This thing does not run out of Puff on hills, Hahahaha, It accelerates up hills,

I do have a Lead Foot, Hahahaha,


Cheers,
Brian,

Toys, 1989 Grand Villa, 36 foot, ORED with 300 Hp Cat. 2002 Gemini 34 foot Sailing Catamaran, 2006 Honda Super Blackbird 1100XX, 2002 ZR7 750 Kawasaki,
25 HP Chinese tractor and Backhoe,

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #40

Thanks Bob,

I didnt know it could be adjusted, Thats a very easy fix. Now I know about it,

It only needs a smidgeon of adjustment to bring it down, Lower third gears top out, so it changes into top gear earlier,

That would solve it perfectly,
Cheers,
Brian,

Toys, 1989 Grand Villa, 36 foot, ORED with 300 Hp Cat. 2002 Gemini 34 foot Sailing Catamaran, 2006 Honda Super Blackbird 1100XX, 2002 ZR7 750 Kawasaki,
25 HP Chinese tractor and Backhoe,

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #41
Thanks Bob,

I didnt know it could be adjusted, Thats a very easy fix. Now I know about it,

It only needs a smidgeon of adjustment to bring it down, Lower third gears top out, so it changes into top gear earlier,

That would solve it perfectly,

Hope it helps.

Rear axle would make noise under load and shimmeys in the front axle were the other fixes I used to have done.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #42
FWIW, My coach is 30 years old. Been full timed most of its life. 287,374 miles. 7367 hours. 250 Hp Cat 3208T. I need to do a few things to it, including pull the wheels to look at the brakes & get new rubber. Engine smokes a little but starts right away. PO stated about 11mpg & he pulled a Jeep Grand Cherokee. This heavy class A gets better fuel economy & has better performance than our previous coach. It was a front engine gasser class C on a 1 ton chevy chassis. That thing drank like a sailor on shore leave!
Fred Lewers
1984 FTX ORED
Build #2423
1991 Ford Taurus SHO
17 1/2  trillion dollars....  TANSTAAFL....  The party's winding down folks!

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #43
Dave,

The same smog stuff that killed the Detroit 2 cycle here in the U.S. Met several guys with CAT powered big rigs but they can't drive them in California.

I think CAT has a big interest in EMD, the manufacturer of the majority of locomotive diesels. Actually, just a modernized Detroit Diesel when EMD split from GM. 2 cycles with 710 cubic inches per cylinder (16 cylinders on most) vs 53, 71 or 92 but they look almost identical, just a Godzilla version. I recall they use 20 gallons per hour at idle and 200 gallons per hour pulling a train. Interesting that they can pass Tier IV emission requirements. http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/loco_index.jsp

In Santa Barbara, the cement company had CATs in all their trucks but almost all had huge failures. The county FD also had them but must have been a different engine as they worked out pretty well.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #44
Actually, it was GOOD management to get out of the on-highway engine business. In fact, Caterpillar stock went up the day they announced it.

On-highway accounted for only a small percent of Caterpillar engine business-- unlike Cummins for example. 

The cost to develop reliable systems to meet the 2010 EPA specs could not be justified by the small number of engines for that market. And unlike in the past when customers could spec any engine in any truck, the cost of developing emission equipment pretty well means "you want my truck", you will have a very limited number of engine choices.  Not like the past-- ever watch "Ice Road Trucks"?  Virtually every one of them had the yellow Caterpillar C15.  And, looking back, of the two main engine builders, Cummins and Navistar, one got it right, Navistar was almost bankrupt by their decisions.

Are they gone forever-- don't know.  But, they are already in a joint venture, building vocational trucks with Cat engines, someone else's injection/emission systems: Cat | On-Highway Truck | Caterpillar

Right now, Cummins is the only real game in town. 
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

 

Re: Miles on Diesel engine and running gear

Reply #45
Emissions- and market share declunes
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)