Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #50 – June 05, 2020, 06:09:41 pm An update to my transfer switch issue. Everything today was done with our forum member Red Tractor. He is my go to person when I'm stumped and need assistance.All of my issues started one day a week ago when we loss power and coach did not return to it's normal state. Coach was plugged in and the EMS outside between the reel and the house was reading fine with no errors. Inside the breaker on the battery charger was tripped and inverter flashing warnings. Reset everything and we temporarily got it running but had intermittent issues so we decided to order new transfer switches. Put new transfer switch in and we started to have the same intermittent issue and now transfer switch was not energizing. We returned the transfer switch, got a replacement from Amazon and same issue shore power relay not energizing. Even though we had power to the new shore line transfer switch it was not powering up giving us a power feed back on the neutral between Line 1 and Neutral. Again, everything worked through the generator just fine which kept pointing us to the shore side. Since DavidS on the forum had power issues on his coach due to issues with his power reel we were ready to start taking our power reel apart to inspect it to see if we had the same issues. Before taking the reel apart I first decided to open the EMS and test power there. When I removed the cover we were met with a big surprise in the attached photo. We removed the EMS and bypassed the connection and it all fired up just fine with no errors except the inverter/charger still not working. Now to find my receipt to see if Progressive will replace my EMS. It has been 7 years. Probably not. My good friend Red Tractor told me he had an identical Prosine as mine that was given to him and that he would give it to me. Mine was the 2500 watt inverter and the one he had was the 3000. Other than that they were identical. We changed it and the inverter is inverting and the charger is now working. Thanks Red Tractor. I'm still stumped as to what caused the EMS issue on the house side. Could it be a loose connection on the EMS? I feel it was the old inverter/charger that failed and possibly shorted out therefore causing a 220V feed back. I don't know. Whatever it was it also took out my surround sound and dvd player. Now to see if I can revive them.Now I need to get two new replacement EMS. One for the inside under the bed and one outside. Leaning on the Hughes Watch Dog on the outside. If Progressive Industries does not replace my EMS I will get a Hughes for the inside also. Anybody have any idea what went wrong?John M.🤔😟🥺😡🤬😬😁😎 The End!P.S. A big thank you to Red Tractor for all his help on this issue and the inverter. It was all a blessing to me. Quote Selected 4 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #51 – June 05, 2020, 06:21:26 pm I had an inverter go bad in my '81 put 220 to tv's and microwave took out all. Kept the microwave and hope putting a new transformer in will repair it as nothing but that original Panasonic fits the cabinet. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #52 – June 05, 2020, 06:39:49 pm My guess John is bad shore side power. The burnt connections seem to show something heated things up a bit to much. Good thing you looked there. I have a Hughes watchdog on order for inline with my new wire reel and the progressive inside between my transfer switch and my panel per recommendations by Chuck I think. Just waiting for it to sup. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #53 – June 05, 2020, 06:42:16 pm Ron, Red Tractor Is the greatest! Super nice guy and very reasonable on his pricing! I highly recommend him! I was there for his birthday this week and his nice wife Nancy shared a piece of his cake with me, it was delicious!2—6 packs I—Air Dryer2–air line leaksEngine Oil/filter changeAll Fuel lines replacedFuel filters replacedBrakes inspected and adjustedJust generally looked over my coach and said it's in great shape and ready to go!2 items on my list of to do's at a later timeTons of knowledge shared. He's been doing Foretravel and other high end coaches for 40 yearsVery fortunate to be able to meet him and pick his brain for a few days! Quote Selected 6 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #54 – June 05, 2020, 06:58:38 pm How tight/loose was the set screw on the overheated connections? A loose connection= resistance is the #1 cause of failure in EMS and ATS's. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #55 – June 05, 2020, 08:19:33 pm The set screw was tight which surprised me. I thought that it would be loose but was not. So glad to get John fixed up as I had been trying to help him fix it over the phone, but much easier when you can put your hands on it. Quote Selected 4 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #56 – June 05, 2020, 08:43:40 pm Not to change the subject any more than I normally do but I would think long and hard before I moved the isolator inside the coach...... Quote Selected
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #57 – June 05, 2020, 08:44:59 pm Quote from: Journey, Roam, Explore – June 05, 2020, 06:39:49 pmMy guess John is bad shore side power. The burnt connections seem to show something heated things up a bit to much. Good thing you looked there. I have a Hughes watchdog on order for inline with my new wire reel and the progressive inside between my transfer switch and my panel per recommendations by Chuck I think. Just waiting for it to sup. Shore side was OK. If shore side was bad the EMS would have cut off the power or blown the surge discs. All that was still good. I believe it was the inverter/charger as Craneman stated.John M. Quote Selected
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #58 – June 05, 2020, 08:55:10 pm Wonder if the screws were actually tight on the wire or just "welded" in place.Again, loose connections in the ATS account for the vast majority of ATS failures. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #59 – June 05, 2020, 09:02:37 pm It was not welded was able to back out the screw and then pull the wire out. This was on the neutral leg and the piece that the wire slips into was burned off from the contact. Quote Selected
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #60 – June 06, 2020, 01:13:16 am John is this ems downside of the inverter? Shouldn't be. If between transfer switch and distribution box can't see the inverter doing that ? There should be a large fuse before the inverter. Quote Selected
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #61 – June 06, 2020, 07:50:28 am Quote from: Journey, Roam, Explore – June 06, 2020, 01:13:16 amJohn is this ems downside of the inverter? Shouldn't be. If between transfer switch and distribution box can't see the inverter doing that ? There should be a large fuse before the inverter. Inverter/charger gets its power from shoreline and has a breaker on the main panel on Line 1. Then when when the shoreline is connected and transfer closes the subpanel is fed from the main panel off of line 1 also. All of the havoc was on line 1. Craneman experienced this same issue. I know of two other individuals that experienced the same. We will see how it goes from here on. Thankful it wasn't any worse.John M. Quote Selected
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #62 – June 06, 2020, 02:58:24 pm JohnMy assumptions regarding the picture in reply #50 are:It is the EMS, not an ATS.The black wires are L1 (hot) and L2 (hot), while the red wire is the neutral.If the shore power provided two 120VAC hots with zero volts between L1 and L2, the neutral wire amperage is the sum of the amperage in L1 and L2 (this is also the case with the generator wires) such that the wire and contact could be overloaded at times. If it was a hot day so you had both air conditioners running, and were using the convection oven as well as charging batteries while the campground voltage was low due to being loaded to near capacity, the amperage in the neutral wire could be high enough to cause overheating damage.The neutral connector in the shore/genset ATS which my Foretravel came with was discoloured due to overheating. I replaced both ATS switches in my coach with two manual 65 amp switches and ran a second neutral wire from the power panel to the shore connector. Quote Selected
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #63 – June 06, 2020, 03:36:25 pm Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – June 06, 2020, 02:58:24 pmThe black wires are L1 (hot) and L2 (hot), while the red wire is the neutral.That would be some VERY bazaar wiring.Convention for 50 amp:L1 and L2 are black and red (positions interchangeable)Neutral is WHITEGround is greenA red used as a neutral would be mis-wired by the vast majority of licensed electricians. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #64 – June 06, 2020, 03:51:49 pm [quote author=P. Wyatt Sabourin The neutral connector in the shore/genset ATS which my Foretravel came with was discoloured due to overheating. I replaced both ATS switches in my coach with two manual 65 amp switches and ran a second neutral wire from the power panel to the shore connector.[/quote]Wyatt why did you use 2 switches when 1 will do?I have one Blue sea systems manual transfer switch. 3 positions. Shore, generator, off.it's a make or break switch so you can't have both contacts on at the same time. It's foolproof and quite sturdy. I'm pretty sure as long as the connections stay tight and the circuit's not overloaded Little could go wrong with it. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Transfer switch Question Reply #65 – June 06, 2020, 04:06:41 pm Quote from: Journey, Roam, Explore – June 06, 2020, 03:51:49 pmI have one Blue sea systems manual transfer switch. 3 positions. Shore, generator, off.it's a make or break switch so you can't have both contacts on at the same time. It's foolproof and quite sturdy. I'm pretty sure as long as the connections stay tight and the circuit's not overloaded Little could go wrong with it.Yes, very KISS theory.Reason some coaches have two ATS's from the factory is that the second box has IN from shore power and from inverter.The contacts in the second ATS are able to handle more amps than many of the OE inverters pass through switches were able to handle. Said another way, on shore power, they allow one to use more amps than the pass through switch in the inverter could handle. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Topic: Transfer switch Question