engine stalled

Topic: engine stalled (Read 1413 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: engine stalled

Reply #25 – November 02, 2016, 03:54:11 pm

If you still have the racor fuel filter can you see fuel moving through the clear plastic cynderical filter if you have the key on and push the prime button?

Re: engine stalled

Reply #26 – November 02, 2016, 07:12:32 pm

Today I decided to end any issue of not having enough fuel in the tank and added another 20 gallons - 32 total since this started. I primed it and, as before, it cut out after about 10 seconds. I repeated and it ran a little bit longer then quit. The third time I hit the prime button when it started to stumble and it recovered. After the priming pump stopped it continued to run and every time it started to stumble, I hit the prime again until it ran on its own. That priming pump is gold! If I had done this yesterday, before adding the extra fuel, I might have had the same result, but didn't want to chance running the battery down.
We backed the coach onto the property and I noticed that the HWH panel was lit up like a Christmas tree (every diode was lit - red, green, yellow). Once I shut everything down, it was all green. Ten minutes later all lights were off. This seems to be a pattern: I no sooner fix one thing when one or two other issues come up. Right now I'm going to have a Corona, celebrate today's victory and not think about the other until tomorrow.
Thanks for all the helpful information.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #27 – November 02, 2016, 07:36:58 pm

Sven, it was obviously low fuel at some point of your "challenges".
So I think now you will have to remember about the "real" amount of fuel you have and work on the 133 or so that we mentioned..
Like Chuck I dip the tank with a piece of string with a nut on end for weight and multiply each "wet" inch by 5.6 to get a pretty accurate amount of fuel. (this is for the 149 gal tank)
JohnH

Re: engine stalled

Reply #28 – November 02, 2016, 08:57:21 pm

I have a small bottle of red and yellow model paint. I paint range markers on things as I discover limitations and limits. I'd red line mark the fuel gauge from 1/8th on down, and yellow range mark 1/4 to 1/8. Protects you and any future owners from unforced errors.

Range markers are helpful on many gauges while driving - one glance and you see "out of range".

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – November 02, 2016, 07:12:32 pm

Today I decided to end any issue of not having enough fuel in the tank and added another 20 gallons - 32 total since this started. I primed it and, as before, it cut out after about 10 seconds. I repeated and it ran a little bit longer then quit. The third time I hit the prime button when it started to stumble and it recovered. After the priming pump stopped it continued to run and every time it started to stumble, I hit the prime again until it ran on its own. That priming pump is gold! If I had done this yesterday, before adding the extra fuel, I might have had the same result, but didn't want to chance running the battery down.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #29 – November 02, 2016, 09:35:40 pm

The Tank Minder on VMSpc seems to be quite accurate for the fuel used by the engine and the gallons remaining. Add some for the gen and AH and you have a very close measure. I add fuel between 70 and 100 gallons left (195 gal tank). Never less.

My dash fuel gauge shows 1/4 to 9/16. At 1/4 there is about 75 gal left and the gauge never gets lower than that.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #30 – November 02, 2016, 11:12:54 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – November 02, 2016, 09:35:40 pm

The Tank Minder on VMSpc seems to be quite accurate for the fuel used by the engine and the gallons remaining. Add some for the gen and AH and you have a very close measure. I add fuel between 70 and 100 gallons left (195 gal tank). Never less.

I used this a lot on my Safari. For some reason, the VMSpc won't accept the new tank size. I enter 194 and it seems to accept it only to drop back to the 100 gal. size; once it works down to 0, it stops and I still have half a tank. Checking this out with a tech. is on my "after action (trip)" list. Had a similar problem with total trip mileage, etc, where it switches to historical figures.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #31 – November 03, 2016, 12:16:02 am

Sven, when you put the tank size in (which by the way should NOT be 194) it will be more like 180 (guesstimate by me) are you then doing the click on the OK button as that usually sets it to the new figure??
JohnH

Re: engine stalled

Reply #32 – November 03, 2016, 07:44:18 am

The 2000 U320 has a 194 gal fuel tank.

VMSpc gets fuel use data from the engine computer not the tank sender ot the dash gauge. Another way to monitor this is to add a total fuel gauge. This will show you the total fuel used by the engine. Write it down in your log book along with total miles. Then you have used 100 gal start looking.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #33 – November 03, 2016, 11:02:00 am

I'm familiar with how the VMSpc works which is why I rely on it. I attempted to reset the tank size twice and did hit the Ok, and it worked for a while. At some point it reset itself to the old parameter as it did with the trip info. I put the tank size in at 194, since that is the size in the specs. so not sure what the 180 is about - is that the volume up to the bottom of the fill neck?
This experience was educational, as are all the things that haven't gone "right". I will fill up before it gets down to 50 gal. One of the reasons given for the "unusable" volume was the avoidance of sediment. I would have preferred that the pick up tube be a little low so that the sediment could be picked up and trapped by the filter, rather than to be allowed to accumulate around the bottom of the tank.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #34 – November 03, 2016, 11:35:44 am

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – November 03, 2016, 11:02:00 am

One of the reasons given for the "unusable" volume was the avoidance of sediment. I would have preferred that the pick up tube be a little low so that the sediment could be picked up and trapped by the filter, rather than to be allowed to accumulate around the bottom of the tank.

I feel like the avoidance of sediment is a less important function of the raised pickup tube. As you say, properly designed filters should catch the trash. Brett (earlier) mentioned the cooling function of the fuel system, and the importance of keeping some minimum amount of "unused" fuel in the tank. Perhaps this was the more important goal of the tank designers. I know our fuel tank, after a hard Interstate run in the summer with fuel down to 1/4 full, will be so hot I can't touch it for more than a few seconds.

When I was doing a Google search for your fuel pump, I saw reference to a "cooling plate" which is part of the engine ECM assembly on later model Cummins engines. Apparently, fuel passes through this plate and is used to stabilize the internal temp of the ECM. It is easy to understand why keeping the fuel in the tank above some minimum level would be important to the overall health of the engine.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #35 – November 03, 2016, 11:39:11 am

I don't know what year they started, but my '99 has a fuel cooler with the radiator

Re: engine stalled

Reply #36 – November 03, 2016, 11:50:16 am

Quote"put the tank size in at 194, since that is the size in the specs. so not sure what the 180 is about - is that the volume up to the bottom of the fill neck?"

Sven, YES that 180 galls is the actual amount ( give or take) that can be put into tank and not come out of the filler spout.
194 is the total volume of tank space and should never have been used in FT specs (in my opinion) as fuel capacity. It is misleading to owners who are not aware.What I was trying to explain to you earlier is that if you fill the tank 5 times you would think that there had been 5 x 194=970 galls but in reality what you have is 5 x 180=900 galls. So you can be fooled into thinking that you have around 70 galls left when in truth it is empty. Again the 180 is a hypothetical figure as I do not know what the 194 gall tank can actually hold until I see a drwg of it and figure this quantity out--but it is close.
JohnH

Re: engine stalled

Reply #37 – November 03, 2016, 02:20:54 pm

When the fuel gauge is half empty I fill her up.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #38 – November 03, 2016, 02:24:45 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – November 03, 2016, 02:20:54 pm

When the fuel gauge is half empty I fill her up.

Me too-- or at least that is where I really start searching on GasBuddy.com - Find Low Gas Prices in the USA and Canada

Re: engine stalled

Reply #39 – November 03, 2016, 02:26:08 pm

X2 Bill, in fact, I hate to go that far down, the pump reading more than $100 puts me in shock after having 2 Sprinters.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #40 – November 03, 2016, 02:58:40 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – November 03, 2016, 02:20:54 pm

When the fuel gauge is half empty I fill her up.

X3.

On our latest trip, I was trying to establish a correlation between our fuel gauge reading and how much fuel I actually put into the tank. My own personal rule is to use 100 gallons as the maximum amount I would ever want to burn before refueling. I was happy to find out that when my fuel gauge needle sits exactly on the "1/2" mark, I could pump exactly 50 gallons back into the tank. So in our case, even though the dash gauge is not technically accurate, it IS a perfect indicator that I have used 50% of my "useable" fuel capacity.

Unfortunately, due to non-linearity, the gauge is less useful above and below the mid point, so I use "miles traveled" as a backup. If I drive 400 miles (at 8 mpg) then I should be showing 1/2 tank on the gauge - this actually works out pretty close, in average driving conditions.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #41 – November 05, 2016, 01:45:11 am

It is really tough pouring 30 gallons into the high mount fill necks using 5 gallon containers and I don't plan on doing that again. I may not fill it at the half way mark, but will start looking for fuel and not let it get near a quarter tank. With what I've learned from other's experiences here, I'm still surprised that I got below the quarter mark and added 155 gallons at one stop.
My failure was using years of experience with lesser coaches. This coach has been a game changer in more ways than one.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #42 – November 05, 2016, 08:58:36 pm

Be aware that there are multiple implementations of the "180 usable gallon" tank.

I have seen prints that show 5 iterations over less than 2 years in the 2001-2003 timeframe.

a) Tank

b) Tank with drain removed

c) Tank with drain re-implemented

d) Tank with main engine pick-up moved to center (center being streetside-curbside midline of coach) of tank

e) Tank with ALL 3 pick-ups (engine, genset, Aquahot) moved to center of tank

Lots of variables...

Re: engine stalled

Reply #43 – November 05, 2016, 09:07:20 pm

Quote from: Michelle – November 05, 2016, 08:58:36 pm

Be aware that there are multiple implementations of the "180 usable gallon" tank.

I have seen prints that show 5 iterations over less than 2 years in the 2001-2003 timeframe.

a) Tank

b) Tank with drain removed

c) Tank with drain re-implemented

d) Tank with main engine pick-up moved to center (center being streetside-curbside midline of coach) of tank

e) Tank with ALL 3 pick-ups (engine, genset, Aquahot) moved to center of tank

Lots of variables...

I'm not sure what the message was and how the five things were related to the problem.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #44 – November 05, 2016, 09:14:51 pm

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – November 05, 2016, 09:07:20 pm

I'm not sure what the message was and how the five things were related to the problem.

FT has changed the design of the tank a number of times, even in a short timespan. What might work for one person on their coach even in a given year will not necessarily (unfortunately) apply to another coach of the same model year. e.g. a fuel pickup at the center of the tank will be somewhat less sensitive to unlevel than one at one side or end of the tank.

We all try to help each other with what we have learned from our own coaches, but we also need to keep in mind that what applies to our specific coach, even the same model year, might not exactly apply for the person having the issue.

That's all.

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