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engine stalled

Seems like I keep coming back to this site.  I had to move the coach back to the side of the house after putting it on the driveway this morning.  It started up and just as I was completely out of the drive way and onto the cul de sac, it sputtered, blue some gray smoke and quit.  It would not start after several attempts.  We had spent three weeks on the road where we had no issues with the engine and we returned three days ago.  I've started it up each day with no problems.  Air in the line, fuel pump.....? 
2000 U320 mid entry  #5688
2006 Jeep Liberty


USMCR retired
SDFD retired
FEMA US&R TF8

Re: engine stalled

Reply #1
If its turning over and has fuel to engine it should start,check for loose fuel filters,could the fuel filters be ready for a change?
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #2
The fuel filters are new and I used a dip stick to check the fuel level.  I'm trying to locate the fuse to fuel pump.
2000 U320 mid entry  #5688
2006 Jeep Liberty


USMCR retired
SDFD retired
FEMA US&R TF8

Re: engine stalled

Reply #3
Fuel solenoid?
95 U320 SE
07 GMC CANYON

Re: engine stalled

Reply #4
A mark of a good coach, is it fails in a place where it can be taken care of, without Cops, tow trucks or Bubbas RV.  ^.^d  I mean that in a positive way.
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: engine stalled

Reply #5
Update:  On Richard Bark's suggestion, I opened the valve at the bottom of the secondary filter and found it to be empty.  I had an eight of a tank (dash gauge) and used a dip stick to verify fuel (showed 6") prior to checking the fuel filter.  I added another 13 gallons of diesel, primed and started it, twice.  Each time it started up and ran for about 30 seconds before shutting down.  If the fuel line had a leak, I would not expect the priming operation to work.  Any other thoughts?
And, yes, I'm really glad that it happened at home.  Not ready to put any "happy face" emoticons on just yet.
2000 U320 mid entry  #5688
2006 Jeep Liberty


USMCR retired
SDFD retired
FEMA US&R TF8

Re: engine stalled

Reply #6
All right, this is a long shot and based solely on the freak thing that happened on my trip home after purchasing our 2007.

Assuming you have a generator supplied by the same fuel tank, check to make sure the fuel lines were not swapped when initially installed. To my knowledge, this only happened on some of the 2007 builds. Would go undetected until the tank fuel level dropped below 1/4. At that point, the generator should suffer fuel starvation. This is because the fuel line, if installed correctly, is located higher in the tank. The logic is this would alert you to a low fuel situation, with 1/4 tank supplying you with enough fuel to get to a refill site. On my 2007, the lines were swapped when the coach was built. This resulted in the engine cutting out at 1/4 tank, while the generator would start right up and purr happily away. Problem solved, once detected and the fuel lines reconfigured to what they should have been.

Like I said, a long shot but you never know.

Hope this helps.

Don
2007 Nimbus 340 quad slide
Build #6386 FMC #17360 FMCA #441779

Re: engine stalled

Reply #7
I had an eight of a tank (dash gauge) and used a dip stick to verify fuel (showed 6") prior to checking the fuel filter.  I added another 13 gallons of diesel, primed and started it, twice.  Each time it started up and ran for about 30 seconds before shutting down. 

How level is the parking area for the coach?  The tank has a pretty large footprint and depending on where the fuel pick up is, you could still be dealing with something as simple as too little fuel in the tank, especially given turbulence when fuel returns to the tank.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: engine stalled

Reply #8
All right, this is a long shot and based solely on the freak thing that happened on my trip home after purchasing our 2007.

Assuming you have a generator supplied by the same fuel tank, check to make sure the fuel lines were not swapped when initially installed. To my knowledge, this only happened on some of the 2007 builds. Would go undetected until the tank fuel level dropped below 1/4. At that point, the generator should suffer fuel starvation. This is because the fuel line, if installed correctly, is located higher in the tank. The logic is this would alert you to a low fuel situation, with 1/4 tank supplying you with enough fuel to get to a refill site. On my 2007, the lines were swapped when the coach was built. This resulted in the engine cutting out at 1/4 tank, while the generator would start right up and purr happily away. Problem solved, once detected and the fuel lines reconfigured to what they should have been.

Like I said, a long shot but you never know.

Hope this helps.

Don
Richard mentioned this - he may have remembered you talking about it in the past.  One way to check is to run the generator.  On our trip, I did allow the fuel level to drop below where it was this morning, without any repercussions.  At that fill up, I put in 155 gallons which would translate into about 40 gal. at the start of the fill up.
I am suspecting the fuel pump at this point.  Does anyone know the location (don't say it is inside the tank)?
2000 U320 mid entry  #5688
2006 Jeep Liberty


USMCR retired
SDFD retired
FEMA US&R TF8

Re: engine stalled

Reply #9
Could also be the racor primary fuel filter if you still have the factory installed one
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: engine stalled

Reply #10
Wife mentioned while at the driving school class they pointed out that if you have a 150 gallon tank you only have a usable 120
gallons,is built that way to contain sediment.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #11
John's comment is sound as just recently I was trying to figure out how many gallons would be in every inch of fuel. I looked at the drwg of tank and my 149 US gallon tank can only hold 135 galls +-. So this had been throwing my calculations out some. The problem being that the filler neck is 3" below the top of tank thereby losing the difference.
Is it possibly part of problem as going to 1/8th on gauge may be way too low.
Why not get a few Diesel containers and fill them then dump it in tank, and I would buy at least 20 galls before trying it again.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #12
If you have any fuel line leaks the low fuel level will amplify them
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: engine stalled

Reply #13
John's comment is sound as just recently I was trying to figure out how many gallons would be in every inch of fuel.
I use 6 gallons per inch (in our 148 gallon tank) = 133 gals to the filler neck, and figure I can burn 100 gals and still stay above 25% fuel reserve.

What are the dimensions of the 194 gallon tank?
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: engine stalled

Reply #14
Just a note to all about fuel level:

With all modern diesel engines, for every gallon of fuel pumped to the engine, only a small amount is burned.

The rest is used to cool and lubricate fuel injection components and in some engines, parts of the head.

Foretravels have enclosed tanks, so little cooling happens in the tank compared with most coaches.

The lower the fuel level, the warmer the fuel (feel the tank after driving with low fuel level on a hot summer day)! Yes, some owners have added a fuel cooler to the fuel return line, and some late-model coaches could have been fitted with one from the factory.

So, where possible, run on the top half of the tank-- better for the engine.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: engine stalled

Reply #15
Everyone seems to be suggesting that it is a low fuel problem.  Logic "tells" me that having an additional 13 gallons over what it previously ran on would eliminate that as a problem.  The only thing I've done to the coach is flip the two switches under the dash that I previously described (separate subject with that heading) - could one of them be a fuel shut off?  I will give FT a call  today.
2000 U320 mid entry  #5688
2006 Jeep Liberty


USMCR retired
SDFD retired
FEMA US&R TF8

Re: engine stalled

Reply #16
Sven,

My post immediately above (#14) was not directed at a diagnosis of your issue, but merely a point of information about "best practices" when it comes to fuel levels.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: engine stalled

Reply #17
I would put those switches back to the position that they were in when coach was running,sounds like you have air in the fuel lines now.Good luck with Foretravel but your asking them to identify switches with no labels that a previous owner may have put in.If
they are for these codes than they have nothing to do with your problem.I would somehow fill the tank then at least the fuel will
be at the highest level when the engine does start and run for this short period of time.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #18
I am suspecting the fuel pump at this point.  Does anyone know the location (don't say it is inside the tank)?
Sven asked this question up above, and has not received an answer.  I don't have the same engine, so I can't help him, but I'm also curious.  He obviously has fuel in his tank, above a level where it was previously running.  If the engine won't run, fuel pump seems to be the next logical item to investigate.

SO, where is the fuel pump on a 2000 model U320?

I assume it is electric, controlled by the engine computer, with some sort of fuel pressure signal inputs.  Seems like there would be several places ripe for potential (electrical) failure.  Any experience out there with replacing or trouble-shooting this pump?

EDIT:  Above assumption was totally incorrect.  :thumbsdown:
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: engine stalled

Reply #19
Sven,

My post immediately above (#14) was not directed at a diagnosis of your issue, but merely a point of information about "best practices" when it comes to fuel levels.
I understood.
2000 U320 mid entry  #5688
2006 Jeep Liberty


USMCR retired
SDFD retired
FEMA US&R TF8

Re: engine stalled

Reply #20
Sven asked this question up above, and has not received an answer.  I don't have the same engine, so I can't help him, but I'm also curious.  He obviously has fuel in his tank, above a level where it was previously running.  If the engine won't run, fuel pump seems to be the next logical item to investigate.

SO, where is the fuel pump on a 2000 model U320?

I assume it is electric, controlled by the engine computer, with some sort of fuel pressure signal inputs.  Seems like there would be several places ripe for potential (electrical) failure.  Any experience out there with replacing or trouble-shooting this pump?

Not sure on 2000 ism, but believe earlier ones had no electric pump, only engine driven mechanical pump. There is an electric priming pump on some units for filling fuel filters and venting air from fuel lines.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #21
Only mechanical pump on ISM
When I replaced my fuel line from tank to engine pump there was only filter and water separators between them.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: engine stalled

Reply #22
Only mechanical pump on ISM
When I replaced my fuel line from tank to engine pump there was only filter and water separators between them.
My Google search agrees with Craneman.  I found this video showing a Cummins mechanical pump for ISM.  Sven: does it look familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWIrffjsUEA

The round red thing bolted to the pump is a electric solenoid, which apparently can fail, causing a no-start condition.  Just watch the first 2 or 3 minutes of this clip - the rest is irrelevant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y0Mjsy8nUk
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: engine stalled

Reply #23
Everyone seems to be suggesting that it is a low fuel problem.  Logic "tells" me that having an additional 13 gallons over what it previously ran on would eliminate that as a problem.  The only thing I've done to the coach is flip the two switches under the dash that I previously described (separate subject with that heading) - could one of them be a fuel shut off?  I will give FT a call  today.
Sven, reason for me using that as a possible event is that "maybe" you have been thinking as I did previously and the disparity of what you thought you had in tank (149 galls) but only (133 galls) for however long has caused you to think you have more fuel than what you actually had!. That is why I suggested you dump a pile in it (you are going to use it anyway so no waste here) and you can then remove this possibility out of the equation.
Just a thought.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: engine stalled

Reply #24
I found another online comment advising to check the voltage at the "fuel solenoid".  Scroll down to the diagrams at the bottom of the page:

cummins isx engine that wont start..Engine turns..getting fuel
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"