Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Topic: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission (Read 2440 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #25 – July 28, 2017, 08:29:38 pm

Two issues: Certainly heat rejection is one-- liquid (coolant) absorbs a LOT more BTU's than air in the same space/size.

The other is over-cooling in cold ambient temperatures. Would require a thermostatically controlled flow.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #26 – July 29, 2017, 07:01:13 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 28, 2017, 09:37:32 am

They are available in stainless. That should end the erosion problem but they are not cheap at $2800. Here is the cooler with what should be the correct part number: Oil Cooler 29538013 for Allison Transmissions - Heavy Truck and Bus (24167AM)...

Pierce

When I compare the $2800 + labor to the cost of transmission replacement, it seems like a plausible upgrade. I think of it in terms of risk-reward or return on investment. Similar to how I would approach a new roof for the house. Do I want to replace the roof with the "builder grade" materials originally used, or replace the particle board decking with plywood and the cheaper shingles with architectural grade shingles? It all depends on how long I plan to stay in the house.

We just started this coach experience and love it so far. But we're total newbies. I think we're in for the long haul but what if we decide in a year or two that a 34' is more our style than our 42'? Or, heaven forbid, that we don't like the coach lifestyle at all? I'm hesitant to over invest before we have more time under our belts. On the other hand, $2800 plus labor seems doable if we decide that both the lifestyle and this particular coach are our long term solution to wanderlust.

The other fun part about the stainless cooler is just the bragging rights around the campfire.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #27 – July 29, 2017, 08:49:35 am

The following pertains to a 99 320 40ft. SEN-DURE MFG, STEWART WARNER COOLER. 1 800 394 5112. PN 16311-1-5. Copper tube. List price 1325. IF order is 10 or more, price 1000. Other sizes are available. JC

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #28 – July 29, 2017, 08:52:46 am

Quote from: Mark Duckworth – July 29, 2017, 07:01:13 am

When I compare the $2800 + labor to the cost of transmission replacement, it seems like a plausible upgrade. I think of it in terms of risk-reward or return on investment. Similar to how I would approach a new roof for the house. Do I want to replace the roof with the "builder grade" materials originally used, or replace the particle board decking with plywood and the cheaper shingles with architectural grade shingles? It all depends on how long I plan to stay in the house.

We just started this coach experience and love it so far. But we're total newbies. I think we're in for the long haul but what if we decide in a year or two that a 34' is more our style than our 42'? Or, heaven forbid, that we don't like the coach lifestyle at all? I'm hesitant to over invest before we have more time under our belts. On the other hand, $2800 plus labor seems doable if we decide that both the lifestyle and this particular coach are our long term solution to wanderlust.

The other fun part about the stainless cooler is just the bragging rights around the campfire.

If you look at the cooler in the link, it would probably cost another $3,000 to make something up to connect it to our lower radiator hose and the transmission and back to the engine. It may just be a tranny cooler for big rigs and nothing to do with our retarder. Doesn't look like it would have enough cooling.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #29 – July 29, 2017, 09:05:22 am

Why try to re-engineer or over engineer the transmission cooler? The OEM ones work as they should, and last for at least 15 years.

Chris

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #30 – July 29, 2017, 09:18:58 am

No engineer here but a common sense type,have worked on generators offshore that run 24 hours a day and were built in the
early 80's,some of them have the original coolers.If the oil section never sees coolant and the coolant section never sees oil,what
will cause it to leak?
The only other thing I can think of is vibration,If I was in the mind set of replacing these items that may fail at some point I would
start replacing all the rubber mounts on the coach,I have'nt done any yet but it looks like many of the trans and engine mounts
could be done one at a time.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #31 – July 29, 2017, 09:23:15 am

I still believe it is corrosion that kills them. Coolant can become acidic and if not changed will eat parts.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #32 – July 29, 2017, 09:40:01 am

My point exactly,cheapest thing we can do is change fluids,way better to change sooner than later.The sampling helps but like
Brett mentioned,what if the sample is really bad,it was bad for some time period before taking the sample and was bad while
they process the sample.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #33 – July 29, 2017, 09:56:00 am

Seems like good PM always -- pardon the pun -- boils down to fluids and filters.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #34 – July 29, 2017, 10:09:25 am

Quote from: Numbers – July 29, 2017, 09:05:22 am

Why try to re-engineer or over engineer the transmission cooler? The OEM ones work as they should, and last for at least 15 years.

Chris

This occurred to me too. If it lasts 15 years I'll be 80 and maybe ready to stop driving a 42' coach.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #35 – July 29, 2017, 10:49:41 am

If your cooler is 12 or more years old and you plan to operate your coach another 3 or 5 years replacing it might be a good idea. We change things, fuel hoses, airbags, tires before they fail. Are we overlooking something here? When these fail it's expensive.
It's always hard for me to fix something that isn't broke even though I know it would be right thing to do. I guess you make a decision and live with it.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #36 – July 29, 2017, 11:04:35 am

Most of the decision process depends on how much money we have,plain and simple.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #37 – July 29, 2017, 02:05:16 pm

Another reason to emphasize knowing the service history on a coach before purchase. Coolant maintenance should prevent all but a miniscule rate of failure.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #38 – July 29, 2017, 02:15:10 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – July 29, 2017, 02:05:16 pm

Another reason to emphasize knowing the service history on a coach before purchase. Coolant maintenance should prevent all but a miniscule rate of failure.

Which is why we paid top CB for this one: "paperwork, paperwork, paperwork!"

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #39 – August 04, 2017, 12:18:49 am

Local Allison dealer in Fort Wayne IN spent two days replacing the Trans cooler and installing a newly rebuilt (Weller) transmission. Finished the job Tuesday night on second shift. two days total in shop plus a ride test drive on the 3rd days morning before releasing the coach. Weller is an authorized Allison rebuilder. They are required to only use Allison parts in their rebuilds. Trans was pretty, painted red. Cooler was installed and the new trans put in.

Decided to take some recommendations to replace the hydraulic side of the cooler and Retarded Accumulator hoses with new ones. Reportedly some of these hoses can deteriorate on the inside and particle of rubber can get into the trans, particularly when the hoses are flexed during the cooler replacement. The three new hoses were $350 but I was able together them made while I waited at the hose shops.

Filled the trans with Transynd then they flushed out the coolant side with a chemical to dissolve the oil in the coolant. Removed the surge tank and burp bottler and cleaned they with high pressure jitney. Then they replaced the coolant with the newer ES Cummins Coolant and distilled water. (Had to go out and buy the distilled water. Tech said they only use tap water normally. He was impressed I insisted on distilled water.)

They reset the transmission using their computer. The reset puts the trans computer back to ground zero to relearn the trans shifting patterns with the new clutches. They told me they had one that they did not do the reset on and it quickly burned up after replacement. They inferred to me that whenever they do any trans maintenance, other than routine fluid and filter changes, they always reset it to protect themselves from having a premature failure.

Over all good job. Recommend the Clark Equipment Co in Fort Wayne IN
to do a trans replacement.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #40 – August 04, 2017, 02:38:12 am

Where did you acquire the new oil cooler? Thanks jc

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #41 – August 04, 2017, 03:09:49 am

Is there not a coolant available that will meet the needs of a cooling an engine and not be so destructive to an Allison tranny? I understand that even a little bit of water contamination isn't good but if just water and it is caught soon enough, couldn't a complete overhaul be avoided? Maybe just a complete flush and refill? There must be some way to avoid such a catastrophe!
After all, these are garbage truck transmissions and are used all over the country, seeing much more wear and tear and less maintenance than our pampered Motorhome use.

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #42 – August 04, 2017, 05:38:49 am

Thanks for the write up. Glad you were able to get the work done so quickly. Appreciate the recommendation to replace the hoses -- seems wise. I'd also like to know where you sourced the new cooler.

Thanks!

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #43 – August 04, 2017, 09:34:14 am

Search transmission cooler to find where Sven bought his as he did his own.
Transmission cooler arrived

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #44 – August 04, 2017, 10:40:06 am

More or less than $11K for everything?

P

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #45 – August 04, 2017, 11:00:48 am

Got my cooler from FOT. They had it in stock and ready to ship that day. Yes it cost much more than you can get one from the manufacturer but someone posted that they had to wait 2 weeks to have it manufactured. Not sure the Manufacturer "Macore" had one on the shelf but I already had the FOT supplied one in route when I learned who the manufacturer was. FOT got it to me in 3 days ground shipping, 64#. Hoses were expensive, $350 dollars for the three of them. Total cost for the job, $14,500. Cooler, hoses, fluids, trans, and labor (16-17 hrs). I think they gave me a break on the labor since I was shagging parts for them while they were doing the work.

OH I forgot. when they removed the trans they found one of the drive shaft universal joints had a dried up cap and needed to be replaced, that was another $60 but the labor was the minimal since it had to be removed to change the trans. Interesting since I had the chassis lubed 2 months ago. Maybe they missed this joint or it had a fault that limited the grease getting to one of the caps.

P.S. From the Allison Service Tip " Trans... fluid containing greater than 0.2% water by volume contamination, regardless of whether it contains glycol or not, is considered contaminated and should not be used." Trans, with cooler, holds 9+ gals. 0.2% by volume is only 2.5 oz of water in 9 gal. Not as damaging as the glycol on clutches but still corrosive to internal past and reportedly can give bad readings on sensors used to control shifting. It can also rust and hit internal parts. Allison has a test kit for glycol in oil. there is also one available from Nelco Co. Saint Paul, MN, kit identified as "Gly-Tek". More info on testing trans fluid at "Automatic Transmission Fluid Technician's Guide (GN2055EN)". I think I was able to view and download this from the Allison website. It has much more info than anyone needs or can understand about the subject .

Re: Replacing an Allison World 4000R transmission

Reply #46 – August 04, 2017, 11:08:06 am

I am sure you can save $ on the job if you have more time to do it and can chose your own shop. Parts can be got for less if you shop and take chances they are the same quality. I was warned that there are shops out there that rebuild Allison trans with cheaper parts than the ones directly from Allison. But when you are full-timing and want to get a good job, warranted for 2 years, I chose to go to an Allison certified shop. And I was lucky to self diagnose the cooler failure, order the cooler immediately and get into a shop with in 3 days. They got the job done in 2+ days (to include a test drive) because they had a second shift that worked on it also

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