Water fill

Topic: Water fill (Read 942 times) previous topic - next topic

Water fill

November 06, 2018, 12:48:07 pm

What is different on my coach? I bought the grommets to do the quick fill everyone is doing, but today decided to see how long it took to fill through the factory? system. It was empty and in less than 10 minutes I was full. Now I have some grommets to donate at the Q unless there is something I am missing.

Re: Water fill

Reply #1 – November 06, 2018, 12:52:27 pm

Chuck,

Does your factory water fill go through a hose (either detachable or on a retractable reel), and do you have the manual water tank fill valve under your bathroom sink? If so, then I don't know what is different, but that's a LOT faster than our coach.

The Other Chuck

Re: Water fill

Reply #2 – November 06, 2018, 12:53:42 pm

I have a hose reel and an electrical operated fill valve.

Re: Water fill

Reply #3 – November 06, 2018, 12:57:17 pm

Your plumbing route from the hose connection to your fill valve, and then to the tank, may be more direct than ours. Or perhaps the pipes in our older coach are more constricted with mineral buildup. Whatever...ours is SLOOOOWWW to fill using the factory system. Having the direct fill on ours is a real time saver.

Re: Water fill

Reply #4 – November 06, 2018, 01:01:04 pm

Maybe I will eventually do the quick fill with a filter setup as that would be a plus. But as for now it is fast enough for me.

Re: Water fill

Reply #5 – November 06, 2018, 01:01:35 pm

Mine is about 4 times faster with the direct fill. Using the factory fill is like watching paint dry.

Re: Water fill

Reply #6 – November 06, 2018, 01:05:57 pm

Could our city water pressures be that much different? My house regulator is set for 65 psi. The hose I hook up to the coach's hose is 25 ft. long 5/8" dia.

Re: Water fill

Reply #7 – November 06, 2018, 01:15:38 pm

Quote from: craneman – November 06, 2018, 01:05:57 pm

Could our city water pressures be that much different? My house regulator is set for 65 psi. The hose I hook up to the coach's hose is 25 ft. long 5/8" dia.

On my 295 the factory fill goes through the hoes reel, a check valve, a ball valve under the sink, the to the bottom of the tank. Most likely the check valve and ball valve ( brass pex valve 1/2") is the restriction issue.

Re: Water fill

Reply #8 – November 06, 2018, 01:38:25 pm

Another possible restriction is the hose "tightness" on the reel, if you don't pull it all the way out. On ours, the hose gets squished pretty flat on the reel due to the return spring tension. But even if I pull it all the way out, still doesn't help speed it up the fill time.

Re: Water fill

Reply #9 – November 06, 2018, 01:47:39 pm

I don't unreel the coach hose except to get the end away form the wet bay, about 18"

Re: Water fill

Reply #10 – November 06, 2018, 01:56:47 pm

I don't unroll mine either. When we are on city water there doesn't seem to be an issue. I think the valve unde the sink is the issue. The inner diameter is quite a bit smaller than the ID of the pex.

Re: Water fill

Reply #11 – November 06, 2018, 02:06:52 pm

Our fill time went from around 45 minutes thru the factory plumbing to about 15 minutes with direct fill. PLUS, the DW can now shower or wash dishes while I'm filling instead of having to wait. ( very low water pressure in the coach while filling thru factory connection).

Re: Water fill

Reply #12 – November 06, 2018, 02:53:41 pm

Quote from: Bob & Sue – November 06, 2018, 02:06:52 pm

Our fill time went from around 45 minutes thru the factory plumbing to about 15 minutes with direct fill. PLUS, the DW can now shower or wash dishes while I'm filling instead of having to wait. ( very low water pressure in the coach while filling thru factory connection).

If I am filling 105 gals. through the system faster than your direct fill it must be the house pressure or the diameter of our house hose is different.

Re: Water fill

Reply #13 – November 06, 2018, 03:12:49 pm

Quote

If I am filling 105 gals. through the system faster than your direct fill

It would be really interesting to know what is allowing your fast fill. Slow fill is why I have put direct in two coaches. Had I been able to fill in 15 minutes, I would have been happy with the stock setup. Maybe the slow fill issue can be addressed without going to direct?
jor

Re: Water fill

Reply #14 – November 06, 2018, 03:23:39 pm

I have never filled except at home. I will get the tank empty and fill from a campground. After Phoenix I will be going to the south rim Grand Canyon campground and it has hookups. Clear water is legal to spill on a highway so I could open the drain and get it low enough to dump the rest into the gray tank at the campground and see what happens. My first pedestal experience is coming.

Re: Water fill

Reply #15 – November 06, 2018, 06:29:16 pm

105 gal in 10 min is 10.5 gal per minute. It doesn't make much difference what size incoming hose you have you are pushing the water into the fresh tank from the bottom. Higher pressure might help some. From the attached chart the max flow rate through 1/2" PEX is 2.3 gal per min which means 45 min to fill a 105 gal tank. Pretty much what my experience has been. My direct fill takes about 20 min. Draining a full tank from the fresh water tank drain (1/2" PEX) is close to an hour.

Did you really fill it? Or did your gauges just say it was full. My tank level sensor closes the fill valve solenoid at 99% full, about 2" down from the top.

This is a pretty neat water meter. Measures each fill and cumulative. Lets you know how much you have run through filters or your water softener. They work well.
Amazon.com: P3 P0550 Water Meter: Home Improvement

You get to see how much you really added.

Shut off your fill solenoid when the tank reaches "full".
Water Fill Valve Auto Shut-off

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Water fill

Reply #16 – November 06, 2018, 08:35:27 pm

It came out the overflow. I have sealed that area with a heavy layer of undercoating all the way across the bulkhead and over the top of the rolocs. I don't mind cleaning the heads off every 2 years to check torque. I doubt anyone approves but it is KISS. The water was at the bottom of the tank visible from the hose reel. Next time I fill at home I will hook up one of the gallon counters and video the fill. Don't know how I will do anything with the video but I know how long it took to reach the overflow. The coach was level.

Re: Water fill

Reply #17 – November 06, 2018, 09:22:34 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – November 06, 2018, 06:29:16 pm

105 gal in 10 min is 10.5 gal per minute. It doesn't make much difference what size incoming hose you have you are pushing the water into the fresh tank from the bottom. Higher pressure might help some. From the attached chart the max flow rate through 1/2" PEX is 2.3 gal per min which means 45 min to fill a 105 gal tank. Pretty much what my experience has been. My direct fill takes about 20 min. Draining a full tank from the fresh water tank drain (1/2" PEX) is close to an hour.

Did you really fill it? Or did your gauges just say it was full. My tank level sensor closes the fill valve solenoid at 99% full, about 2" down from the top.

This is a pretty neat water meter. Measures each fill and cumulative. Lets you know how much you have run through filters or your water softener. They work well.
Amazon.com: P3 P0550 Water Meter: Home Improvement

You get to see how much you really added.

Shut off your fill solenoid when the tank reaches "full".
Water Fill Valve Auto Shut-off

Here is a chart showing 6 gal. per minute through 100' of tubing. I am going through 3' at most.
PEX tubing technical specifications and general installation practices

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Water fill

Reply #18 – November 07, 2018, 08:53:48 am

Chuck that chart shows pressure loss in 100' of tube at a certain flow rate, not what is possible. And you have the hose, probably a pressure regulator, more than three feet of PEX, a number of 90° fittings, a solenoid valve and maybe more before you get to your tank. Even if you were getting a 6 gpm flow rate it would take about 18 minutes.

10 minutes to fill your empty fresh water tank through your OEM filling aparatus is pretty far from what most experience.

Try it again and see if you get the same results. Let us know.

Re: Water fill

Reply #19 – November 07, 2018, 09:51:18 am

65 psi is very good water pressure, a majority of locations won't have this much pressure available therefore longer fill times. My residence runs about 35 psig when neighbor Hood lawn sprinklers are not running. Maximum downstream user distribution pressure inside a building is prohibited to be above 80 psi to prevent toilet China from exploding.

Re: Water fill

Reply #20 – November 07, 2018, 10:20:36 am

So, the size and length of your garden hose makes a huge difference in the gallons per minute/time to fill your tank. Using 50 psi at the faucet and a 3/4" hose, you will flow 20 gpm (gallons per minute) with a 50 foot hose. Shorten that to 25 feet and the flow jumps to 40 gpm. If you go directly into the tank, with a 25 foot 3/4" hose at 50 psi, you could fill your 150 gallon tank from empty in 3.8 minutes. Now, change that to 1/2" hose and 40 psi.

Naturally, this assumes the supply pipe in the ground has no appreciable friction loss.

Here is a fun chart with hose sizes, lengths, pressure, etc. Equations at the bottom. Garden Hose Flow and Time Calculator

Another chart with plastic pipe friction loss including fittings: Friction Loss Flow Chart

Some of you firefighters may remember this formula: GPM =29.7x d squared x square root of nozzle pressure

Pierce

Re: Water fill

Reply #21 – November 07, 2018, 11:45:04 am

We're on a water well. Our pump control regulates our household water pressure between 40-60 psig. Its never mattered what hose I have used to connect the house faucet to the coach factory water fill point...it is still a very slow process to fill our tank from empty. The 45 minute number being tossed about seems very close to what I have always experienced. Agree with Roger - the big bottleneck is somewhere in the coach water system pipes, valves and connections.

Re: Water fill

Reply #22 – November 07, 2018, 12:33:57 pm

I have our water regulator set for 65 psi. Unregulated here is much higher. Before I re piped with 1" PVC to the house, the old 3/4 galvanized from 1951 no regulator was necessary due to rust build up in the pipe. I will refill with a timer next fill here after draining the fresh tank out. The hose bib I am filling from is at the 1" PVC to 3/4 copper I re piped the house with.

Re: Water fill

Reply #23 – November 07, 2018, 06:43:48 pm

This was our direct water fill modification, cut our fill time from about 40 min to about 15 minutes......
Just connect the male hose end to the fill female end on the tank. (shown with cap in place).

We have a portable cartridge type filter we connect between the supply hose and a short 4' hose to the tank fill.

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