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Topic: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177 (Read 8923 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #75 –
I may not be done with Michelin after all.

Tomorrow I'm getting a set of Michelins on the FMCA program. When the Michelin rep gets back after Christmas, he will look at my old tires and credit me as big an adjustment as he can.

I'm also taking the MDX to a Michelin dealer to see what they can do. The warranty claim is already started.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #76 –
So youre buying all new michelins on the hope they may credit you something on the old ones?? Will they not credit you if you upgrade to a better brand? I wouldnt subject myself to further use of terrible michelins on the hope of possibly getting money back. Without a firm warranty agreement in place, id buy another brand and drive happy. I personally have had it with michelin ok product and gold price. I see all these crib death michelins taking out expensive fenders and such and would not take a chance.

I also dont buy the argument that FOT engineered the rv to one brand of tire. Yeah OK, as much as they engineered terrible self tapping bulkhead bolts and GV windshield structural support. Ive driven michelin, toyo and bridgestone on foretravels and been happy with them all. My current 9 year old bridgestones are working great and I fully trust they will continue to do so for a few more months when six new Toyo, Uniroyal, Bridgestone, or whatever I get will replace them.
95 U300SE

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #77 –
Times change and the original unihomes were designed by cm fore and the engineering staff around the Xza-1 pilots.  From cm fore's mouth at the oct 87 introduction of the unihomes I attended in person at Nac.

Am I incorrect that every new unihome and unicoach and the latest models all came with Michelin's on them?

Michelin's I understand are still the only tire made that in a severe failure that shreds the sidewall and the straight across steel cord belts bring the rim down upon the tread belt. No flip flop.

As the non overlapped steel carcass is a Michelin design original the other brands use a thicker sidewall construction to hold the rim up off the tread belt in a depressurization failure.

As far as I have read and I have looked at every competing tires web pages no one else offers the self centering side sizes that Michelin features or offers a three retread 7 year/700k mile warranty for the commercial recappers.

The new legal slightly loose wheel bearing requirements of .001 to .005 rotor play adds  a small amount of dead spot in my steering that was not there with the same Xza-3+ set of tires adjusted illegally with a non legally defineable slight preload on the front wheel bearings.

Our 40' Coach now requires a bit more steering wheel edge movement to initiate  steering changes.

Noticeable, at least I think,  so that the tires self steer straight at 97/87 psi on "h" tires.

Was magical with preloaded bearings. Now just excellent.

The Michelin's seem to "dive in" after a certain amount of steering wheel turning in a corner then as you exit the self centering feels like it reasserts itself.

My Xza-2's sidewalls  cracked after 10 and seven years life before these -3+'s.

Newer SOB tires may work as well and not crack and be less money but I am reluctant to not use the Michelin's as I am extremely picky on the driving characteristics of our coach.

To me I think I can feel the Michelin "feel" from the thinner side wall construction.

I had ride issues and a steering wander and tire noise on our 08 sc430 when we bought it last year. 

Pulled near new pirellis p1's off the car with 5k miles on them and put Michelin pilot super sport top rated by consumer reports tires and fixed all the issues.

Having not driven our similar coach with different tires i obviously do not have a current comparison so all the other brands mentioned may well drive and survive a failure exactly as well as the Michelin's so whatever everyone feels good using is great.

The straight across steel cord belt design Michelin has used since the 50's "x"  adds on the billboards in the USA coupled with the self centering sipes seem to work well. Plus they ride well and are quiet. 

As Wolfe mentioned I wish I could find a place to cut 5/32nd's off the tires as the tread block "squirms" slightly. 



"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #78 –
Buying one set of tires that had faults after 3 years may be a fluke. Buying two sets of tires the same brand, doing the same thing after 3 years, would make me seriously think about changing brands.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #79 –
Jim I agree,  what if they drive better?  If it cost me 10 cents a mile to drive noticeably better driving characteristic tires that's a fair deal for me. 

Too many years in the biz.  Driven hundreds of other brands and coaches. 

NONE drive like a perfect unihome or unicoach.  None.

Numb.  Like a truck.  No "feel" 

If brought to the customers attention in a competitive market the finesse drivers bought a Foretravel.  Sold 59 new and 41 used in 1988 out of my ca. store for the better power to weight ratio and the better drive and a longer lasting design

And every competitor looked better and brighter inside than a Marie Fore designed dark wood walls
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Jim I agree,  what if they drive better?  If it cost me 10 cents a mile to drive noticeably better driving characteristic tires that's a fair deal for me. 

Too many years in the biz.  Driven hundreds of other brands and coaches. 

NONE drive like a perfect unihome or unicoach.  None.

Numb.  Like a truck.  No "feel" 

If brought to the customers attention in a competitive market the finesse drivers bought a Foretravel.  Sold 59 new and 41 used in 1988 out of my ca. store for the better power to weight ratio and the better drive and a longer lasting design

And every competitor looked better and brighter inside than a Marie Fore designed dark wood walls
Bob, I do pay extra and have Pilot Sports and P-Zero's on my daily drivers, but I am not sophisticated enough to tell the difference between Goodyear, Michelin or Yokohama's  on my coaches. On my present coach, replaced $550 Michelins with $300 Uniroyals and ride and handling seem the same. But I do not expect a 20 ton coach to handle or ride like a sports car. I believe Michelin owns Uniroyal.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #81 –
Glad for your feedback,  thanks

Not a rich guy.  Also not a price buyer. 

Replacing older Michelin's with newer other brands may well and probably should feel similar. 

Ah newer Michelin's had a totally different result.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #82 –
Yesterday replaced my 7 year old Michelin XZA2 (all sidewall checking) with Toyo M144 295/80 22.5.  The choice was not a result of financial consideration it was because over a year and a half ago tires started showing signs of cracking which fo me is unacceptable.  Drove 83 miles home and ride and handling was the same as on the way to have the 8 Toyos installed.
Gary Mauck
Deerfield Beach, Fl.
2005 U320 40' PBGB

"Elks Care, Elks Share!"

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #83 –
Gary, was there a cost savings?
1993 U300 40ft GV SE
Build # 4344

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #84 –
Jeff...tires were $434.82, dis/remount & balance $21.75 and with taxes and disposal fee I was out the door $3,988.50 for the eight tires.  I'm one of those fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me guys so I never checked the FMCA pricing for Michelins but I would think they would be at least several hundred dollars more plus whatever they charge to mount and balance.  In round numbers the savings most likely is around $1,600 to $1,800 so I guess over a 7 year period I'm saving about $200.00 a year.

If my tires had not cracked (I very satisfied with the ride and handling of the coach) I would have never considered changing brand even though I have read this problem is not uncommon and it has been occurring for years, sounds crazy but that's me.  You would think knowing it is a problem Michelin would fix it !!!  Never felt you come out on top when a product fails they prorate the cost of replacement.  The aggravation and amount they give you to replace the item very seldom works to ones advantage.  I have always kept the tires coveed and only used 303 protectant religiously which I'm sure would have to come up in discussion if a claim is made under warranty to plead your case for proration.

To make a comparison I had the steers inflated to 100 psi, drives 90 psi and the tags at 85 psi which is what I ran in the Michelins.  On my trip home approximately 60 miles was at 60 to 65 mph and majority of the other miles was at 35 to 45 mph without any notice of ride and handling difference.  I did have Centramatic's installed on the steers so I don't know if that factors in but I doubt it does because the most weight used on anyone tire to balance was 6 ounces and that was on only one drive rim. 

Time will tell if I made the right decision, at least As of now I have given myself an early Christmas present $$$$ if they continue to handle as they have the first 83 miles, if not I have no one to blame but myself.


Gary Mauck
Deerfield Beach, Fl.
2005 U320 40' PBGB

"Elks Care, Elks Share!"

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #85 –
Everyone has an opinion on tires.  Bottom line, most brands are just fine, kind of a matter of preference if you ask me.  I have had the big M, BF Goodrich, and Goodyear and Bridgestone on my coaches and all were very satisfactory.
 When I bought my 1990 U280, it was equipped with the M Pilot tires.  They looked good and showed no checking, so I drove it home at highway speeds 200 miles.  Later discovered that those tires were over 20 years old!  I still have one of them mounted on a spare rim and it still looks good inside and out--- of course I wouldn't use it!  They don't make tires like those any more.
Current coach has M steer tires and Goodyear rears.  When they age out I will probably replace with Hankook.
Current coach 1996 U320 40'
Previous coach, 1990 36' U280

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #86 –
I went ahead and replaced the weather checked Michelins with new Michelins under the FMCA program, cost for six was $3700. After the holidays I'll know how much warranty adjustment I get.

The tire dealer also sells Hankook. Sells a lot of them. He said I only wanted Michelin on my coach.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #87 –
Quote from: Gary & Jeannie –
Jeff...tires were $434.82, dis/remount & balance $21.75 and with taxes and disposal fee I was out the door $3,988.50 for the eight tires.  I'm one of those fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me guys so I never checked the FMCA pricing for Michelins but I would think they would be at least several hundred dollars more plus whatever they charge to mount and balance.  In round numbers the savings most likely is around $1,600 to $1,800 so I guess over a 7 year period I'm saving about $200.00 a year.

If my tires had not cracked (I very satisfied with the ride and handling of the coach) I would have never considered changing brand even though I have read this problem is not uncommon and it has been occurring for years, sounds crazy but that's me.  You would think knowing it is a problem Michelin would fix it !!!  Never felt you come out on top when a product fails they prorate the cost of replacement.  The aggravation and amount they give you to replace the item very seldom works to ones advantage.  I have always kept the tires coveed and only used 303 protectant religiously which I'm sure would have to come up in discussion if a claim is made under warranty to plead your case for proration.

To make a comparison I had the steers inflated to 100 psi, drives 90 psi and the tags at 85 psi which is what I ran in the Michelins.  On my trip home approximately 60 miles was at 60 to 65 mph and majority of the other miles was at 35 to 45 mph without any notice of ride and handling difference.  I did have Centramatic's installed on the steers so I don't know if that factors in but I doubt it does because the most weight used on anyone tire to balance was 6 ounces and that was on only one drive rim. 

Time will tell if I made the right decision, at least As of now I have given myself an early Christmas present $$$$ if they continue to handle as they have the first 83 miles, if not I have no one to blame but myself.




Thanks Gary, best to Jeanie and the pups!
1993 U300 40ft GV SE
Build # 4344

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #88 –
Tom did you notice any difference in the driving experience with the newer Michelin model?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #89 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Tom did you notice any difference in the driving experience with the newer Michelin model?

Not that I could tell in six miles, no freeway.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #90 –
I'm thinking of Continentals using the FMCA tire program over Michelins next year.  I've had good luck with Michelins in the past with no issues so far.

I want to stick with 275 tires over the Toyo 295s.  FMCA Tire Program 
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #91 –
A driving abservation:  with the  Xza-2's on the coach at 97 and 107 psi when the throttle was lifted the coach would slow in traffic enough over a distance to not need the service brakes very  much.

With the Xza-3+'s the coach hardly slows on the exact same roads and conditions with the throttle off at 97/87 psi on "h" rated tires versus the 2'a were "g" rated.

Between the resonator and fan controller changes and the tires our mpg went up more than 1 mpg.  Almost 2.

So I squandered the increase and now floor it up every grade and tow at a minimum of 70 and for the last 12,000 miles the average is 8.2 on the  VPMS. 

Had forgotten about the less rolling resistance.  Very noticeable.  New "x" M's mention 5% less rolling resistance than our Xza-3+'s.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #92 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Tom did you notice any difference in the driving experience with the newer Michelin model?
.

FWIW, here's what I bought. No complaints so far.

Michelin X Line Energy Z 275/80R22.5

The ultra-fuel efficient X Line Energy Z radial is Michelin's line haul steer tire guaranteeing excellent mileage and rolling resistance. Its patent-pending Dual Compound Tread delivers exceptional mileage with no compromise for fuel efficiency. Directional miniature sipes in the groove walls promote even wear throughout the life of the tire. The X Line Energy Z meets California's CARB requirements and is approved for use on EPA SmartWay certified equipment.

Features & Benefits

5% better rolling resistance than the XZA3+
20% more mileage guaranteed against leading competitor line haul steer tires
Miniature sipes directional to half life
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer
 

Re: Just want to know about Toyo M170 & M177

Reply #93 –
Toyo M177 is a long-haul tire SmartWay (EPA mpg rating), not advertised for any other application on toyo website.

Toyo m170 is listed as regional and urban tire by toyo (and not SmartWay).

Toyo 157 is rated for steer on long-haul and regional. SmartWay rated.
Toyo 154 is listed as drive tire for long-haul, and all position for regional/urban. SmartWay rated.

People say the regional may have treads that self-eject rocks and debris better. I'd presume slightly stiffer/thicker sidewalls, too.

I'm not sure what model I will get, but I think it's pretty wise to avoid the m170 as it's only rated regional and urban.  I really don't want an urban tire on my RV.
1998 U270 34'