Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Inverter Question (Read 1913 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #40 –
Battle Born batteries are temperature rated for:
  High temperature: > 135F. The BMS will not allow a charging or discharging current.
  Low temperature: < 25F. The BMS will not allow a charging current.
These are battery temperatures.

If you are going to be somewhere where your battery temperatures exceed 135° add AC to the bay or move the batteries inside where you will be running AC all the time anyway.  Some move inside cooler air into the battery bay.

If your battery temperatures are below 25° there are simple and effective ways to increase the battery temp to the point it will begin to accept a charge.  As soon as that happens the battery is heating itself and will continue to charge and discharge even if it is cold outside.

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #41 –
Lithium battery breakdown

I ordered these

High lifespan: two thousand cycles and more (see chart)

• Deep discharge allowed up to 100 %

• Ultra safe Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry (no thermal run-away, no fire or explosion risks)

• Embedded BMS (Battery Management System) : improve lifespan AND secure the battery

• No Lead, no heavy metal, no toxic element

• Calendar life > 10 years

• Excellent temperature robustness (-20 °C up to +60 °C)

• Flexible deployment : up to 10 packs in parallel and 4 in serial

• Constant power during discharge (very low internal resistance)

• Very low Peukert's losses (energy efficiency >96 %)

• Very low self discharge (<3 % per month)>

• No memory effect

• About 50 % lighter and 40% smaller than equivalent Lead-AGM

battery with same usable energy

• Certification : CE, RoHS, UN 38.3, UL and CB

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #42 –
Does you Victron panel show the temp prior to an alarm?  The manual does not state that or the technical paper.  Does it show a actual mosfet or transformer temp during the preliminary warning?

The inverter shows an on or off for the warning light.

My search is for me personally.  The idea I need or want to use my coach a certain way that it cannot do lessens it value to me and can be a personal safety issue.

Foretravel built a true 4 season coach with multiple backups for almost every system.

And the std equipment can handle all temp extremes and run high loads on the electrical system without failing.

Thirty years of continuous model improvement by 97.

Like I said it's not whether you would use your coach in the ways I mentioned it's the idea you could.

Bluebirds overheated new in the Arizona desert. 

Owners manuals first "pink" page  said max operating temp was 100 not 120.  So you could not drive a 8v92 bird over 100 degrees.  Not enough radiator.

 As long as everyone understands what the trade offs are that's great.

Plus the engineering papers show a bigger inverter retains it max efficiency much longer as the load increases.

IEC 62133 certification mandates that charging has been certified between 37F and 113F (3C and 45C).

So for sure no less than 25 degrees F.  Max internal may be more than ambient.  Do li-ions cells heat up?  No idea

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #43 –

Pierce, try one of these on a smaller inverter.
Amazon.com: DC Ammeter, DROK Digital DC Multimeter 0-90V 100A Voltmeter...

It is good for up to 100 amps and records reading in amps and watts.  I got one for my smaller inverter.  I have power meters to see what the refrigerator is using or the entire output circuit is using.  There are similar ones for more amps.

My Victron BMV tracks ampHr in and out of the batteries.  Turn off the inverter and charger and as amy other loads as you can and see what the load on the batteries is. Then turn on the inverter with no 120 volt loads.  The change from before and after should be what the standby power consumption is.  The BMV will give you both volts and amps tomget a good read on watts.  This may change over time as the inverter warms up.  Try for a longer period to test.  Add a "known" load.  Put a killawatt meter or similar to see what power is actually being consumed.  See what amp hrs are used in the same time.  See how power in and power out compare.

In the end knowing what you use is really important to figuring out how much storage capacity and charging capacity you need.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #44 –

Only for instantaneous reading, and the bluetooth is only good for 10-15 ft, but great for seeing starting loads inside your coach when you turn something on. And the price is right.
Amazon.com: BTMETER BT-570CAPP Digital Clamp Meter Multimeter, Auto-Ranging...

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #45 –
The internal temperature of the Victron inverter may be available if you dig into the details. I just don't see any reason to worry about it or to even know.  If it gets to warm I will know about it.  Along with a dozen or more other warnings. 

Just get your own and see for yourself or quit worrying about it.

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #46 –
My father had a 97 Buick Park Avenue, he thought it was the best car ever made and no way anyone could improve on it, and he was going to keep it forever. I visited him in 2003 with a 2 year old BMW 535i sport, and let him drive it. That year he traded his Buick in on a new MB. Progress is inevitable.
Some people will just fight it to the very end.

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #47 –
Roger,

Bought one of those exact meters and expect it by the end of the week.

P

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #48 –
Roger, how does that meter work?  Just run the positive cable between battery and inverter through the hole in sensor part?

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #49 –
Steve,

I've ordered two of them. A four function and a six function. The six is coming from China as I could not get one here. It measures the AC voltage also out of the inverter. Can't use is on a modified square wave or it fries it.

Here is the four way that should be hare by next week. Both have shunts.

Digital DC Watt Meter 12v 24v 48v Voltage Current Battery Monitor Solar...

Piece

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #50 –

Steve, Correct, run the wire through it, hook it up.  Slick.
A killawatt meter works great to monitor the watts used by a 120 volts device.  I have used a 60 and 100 watt incandescent bulb on a small inverter as a "known" load on big battery to test capacity.  Kill-a-watt on the output side and a drok on the input side of the inverter.  60 watt bulbs are not always 60 watts.  The idea is a steady load on a fully charged battery to see how long it takes to get to 50% SOC.  A 255 amphr capacity 8D at a 20 hr discharge rate is most likely not 255 amp hrs after several years.

I have one of these clamp on DC amp meters
Amazon.com: Extech DC400 Mini 400A DC Clamp Meter: Home Improvement

It is great for checking your alternator or any other current.  Check your alternator on the output cable at your isolator (away from the belts and moving parts in the engine)

If you are using a Kill-a-watt meter they can be hard to fit in where you want them.  I have a couple 1 ft long extension cords to get things away from the plug.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/garden/page.aspx?p=76884&cat=2,42194,50658

I also have 6' and 15' heavy duty extension cords.  Perfect for 90% of when they are needed, less stuff on the floor of the shop to trip on.  A 15' in the coach is the most used one there.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=76078&cat=1,240,41065,76078

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.