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Topic: Autoformers (Read 1840 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Autoformers

Reply #25 –
We have an autoformer as, until last year, the local navy base campground had abysmal power.  It's since been upgraded.  My wife has asthma and I a heart condition that precludes being in high temps for very long hence the need for adequate power for the A/C.  I will continue using the unit as we are only using what we paid for and need.  If someone has a large all electric coach and/or with three or four A/C units then it's up to the campground to refuse them service or upgrade their systems to accommodate them.  So many campgrounds have not kept up with modern coaches and their power requirements but seem to be happy to raise prices for the same level of service.

There is no proper logic to this NFPA rule but I believe that they listened to one or two sources without understanding the "problem".  Why they did not take into consideration the dangers of under voltage, especially older motors without overheat protection, is beyond  me.  Unusual for the NFPA which is a well respected institution.

Keith
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159

Re: Autoformers

Reply #26 –
There are a number of parks I have to pay extra to plug into the 50A outlet vs the 30A outlet. 

Coaches now are using more power then before. Just like the size of the coaches are getting bigger.

If a park can not handle 50A load they should then remove the 50A plug & tell renters they only have 30A 120v power, or upgrade their system where it can handle the load.  Autotransformers are a crutch that is used when a park does not have an acquit system to handle the load. If a park is complaining about autotransformers they then need to fix their power systems or stop renting sites.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Autoformers

Reply #27 –
If the park can't provide proper power that I paid for. Then I ask for a refund and move on. Hey, if they are going to be In the RV Park business then upgrade your years old system, instead of just raising you rates, and putting out a few picnic tables. That's the end of my rant. 😎😎👍
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Autoformers

Reply #28 –
I see both sides but I will be installing my Hughes autoformer as soon as it gets here. I have already installed the watch dog. I have been beside many campers that leave their AC's running while they are away all day. (And no they didn't have pets) Have even had them ask me why we don't. I believe the comment was it's paid for why come back to hot RV. It may take awhile to cool back down when we return but I don't believe in wasting something simply because it doesn't cost me extra to use it. But we had a close call with bad power over the 4th caused by the neighbors RV. Power was fine until they plugged in, then I smelled electric smoke. John flipped the breaker and we started trouble shooting one leg was way high and the other way low. Even with everything off they were still dragging one leg down. When the owner moved them to another pole everything was fine again. They tried to say our RV was just too sensitive. I am not sure how they came up with that when they were getting shocked when they touched the outside wall of theirs. In any case I will not take the chance of frying my little darling when there is something we can do to protect her.  We ordered the Hughes autoformer and the surge protector with emergency power off the next week. Mine will be in my electric bay out of sight out of mind.
John & Holly Zick
2003 U320
38' Build #6206
FMCA F495485

Re: Autoformers

Reply #29 –
We think leaving a Hughes Autoformer in the line all the time, risks having it fail over time from constant use. These are expensive and serve no purpose unless voltage is too low. Much more important to have a Progressive Industries EMS in use all the time.

If campground voltage is below 100 volts, Autoformer boosted output will likely still be too low for roof air and other motors (elec fridg, etc). Autoformer is not a fix-all. It is tool that needs to be managed.

If the Hughes EPO model with disconnect is hard wired into the system, there was no way to "bypass" like Progressive Industries hardwired and portable EMS offer.

Re: Autoformers

Reply #30 –
Power is power, and once the parks distribution system is overloaded and voltage starts dropping an autotransformer is just your personal band aid, given that enough users also have an autotransformer the park voltage drops even more until smoke starts appearing and breakers pop. The lucky campers are the ones closest to the parks main feed.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Autoformers

Reply #31 –
Barry not so. 

I just picked up our coach today and the Autoformer is in the cord reel bay behind our Glendinning cord reel.

My buddy has installed the hose reel sideways in our compartment.  The spot for the Hughes unit was behind the hose reels take up bin.  The Autoformers indicator light are not visible as the face the tank but the plug faces outward and my buddy mounted the disconnect box female receptacle on the left compartment wall.

If the Hughes failed I can reach in and unplug it from the system and plug the shoreline reels 50 amp plug directly into the coach.

Same time he installed a progressive 50 amp guard unit on the coach side of a new  transfer switch.  If the gen fails or anything goes wrong the progressive unit will interrupt the power.  With the unit is a small remote panel from progressive that has a bypass switch on its face.  If it fails flipping the switch bypasses it.

I am keeping the external progressive unit as if the built in fails I have a shoreline backup.

The installed one covers the output from the ATS to the coach.  An external one only covers the shoreline.

I Remember posts here saying they had wired their progressives this way.  Thanks.

That combined with my blue sea M2 indicator panel installed where the powerwatch and the lower meter were before just about finishes the electric work for a while.

The gendinning is a marine unit with no slip rings.  Shore wire coils in a drum. 

Nice setup for an old roach coach. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Autoformers

Reply #32 –
Thanks Turbo, for clarifying why the code entry was made. Found the "you cannot" on a 2011 document, so wonder if it has been around for a while.

The Auto in Autotransfer does not refer to an automatic voltage control:

An autotransformer is an electrical transformer with only one winding. The "auto" (Greek for "self") prefix refers to the single coil acting alone, not to any kind of automatic mechanism.

An autotransformer has a single winding with two end terminals, and one or more terminals at intermediate tap points. It is a transformer in which the primary and secondary coils have part of their turns in common. The primary voltage is applied across two of the terminals, and the secondary voltage taken from two terminals, almost always having one terminal in common with the primary voltage.

In an autotransformer part of the current flows directly from the input to the output, and only part is transferred inductively, allowing a smaller, lighter, cheaper core to be used as well as requiring only a single winding.

Limitations:

An autotransformer does not provide electrical isolation between its windings as an ordinary transformer does; if the neutral side of the input is not at ground voltage, the neutral side of the output will not be either. A failure of the isolation of the windings of an autotransformer can result in full input voltage applied to the output.

Re: Autoformers

Reply #33 –
Autoformers = waste of money
"Progressive Industries EMS in use all the time" = Smart.
If the RV park do not have good and safe electric then why stay there, what if the RV next to you catches on fire, hopefully you are not out to lunch while your RV is safe with Autoformer  >:D
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: Autoformers

Reply #34 –
Quote from: propman –
Autoformers = waste of money
"Progressive Industries EMS in use all the time" = Smart.
If the RV park do not have good and safe electric then why stay there, what if the RV next to you catches on fire, hopefully you are not out to lunch while your RV is safe with Autoformer  >:D

Thinking you know a good campground in Texas where low voltage is not a problem? ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Autoformers

Reply #35 –
One amp at 50 amps actual power consumption to almost never have a voltage issue again and as others have done here to have a fairly hard to fail system with a progressive industries fault controller on the main line for the coach.

After shore or gen.  Autoformer on the shoreline in,
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Autoformers

Reply #36 –
Quote from: craneman –
Give it a few years and they will be obsolete. As will our current generators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_S7s6rGUwY

Wishful thinking:  The rise and fall of Erwin Hymer Group North America | TheRecord.com
Quote
The rise and fall of Erwin Hymer Group North America
RV manufacturer saw aggressive growth and expansion before a stunning collapse into receivership
1998 U270 34'
 

Re: Autoformers

Reply #37 –
Quote from: krush –
Wishful thinking:  The rise and fall of Erwin Hymer Group North America | TheRecord.com
Hopefully someone took over the fuel cell R&D portion of the auction. It has already passed.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean