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Topic: Lithium battery questions (Read 1393 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #20 –
Quote from: John44 –
.....we have 2 Lithium pro batteries and a ms2812 with the BMK and are using the temp sensor, can you explain more why weshould not use it?

From Lithium Pros manufacturer's website, it states that if you click on "Additional Information" and you look at specifications, charge voltage is to be 14.6 volts, and charge amps, 50.

If you enable temperature compensation this will lower or raise voltage from the recommended
charge voltage of 14.6 volts recommended by your manufacturer, Lithium Pros.  This is why not to enable temperature compensation.  This matches all other well known lifepo4 battery manufacturers saying to charge with charger voltage set between 14.4 -14.6.  The following BMS will cut off charging when battery reaches 14.6 volts, 100% charge.

From your battery mfgs Lithium Pros website, you have: INTEGRATED BMS WITH LOW VOLTAGE, HIGH VOLTAGE, OVERCURRENT, AND SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION". Thus your Lithium Pros batteries have an internal BMS that will turn off charging when battery voltage reaches 14.6 volts, and will turn off charging with too high or too low of a battery temperature.

RE3110 12.8V 110Ah Lithium Ion Battery - Lithium Pros

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Pyolet –
Since the Battleborn full charge voltage is around 14v, the starter spins a lot faster and motor starts quicker.  I rarely used boost until I got the lithiums...now it's routine and only occasionally start without boost to make sure the start batteries are still functioning.  Can't help but be better for the starter.  Woody.

Battleborn says that their batteries should NOT be used as starting batteries.  I think starting the generator and occasional use for boosting, if needed, is ok but I'd confirm that regular use for starting your coach engine is ok with them.

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Jack L –
Just so as to not leave mis information stand: Hmmm........3 Battle Born @ 100 ah each, depleted to 100% discharged = 300ah to use.  My 3 AGM8D @ 250 ah each, depleted to 50% = 375 ah to use.  So yes, Roger is correct, as per usual, and it takes 4 Battle Borns to be 25 ah greater than the 3 AGM8Ds at 50%.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/fleet---heavy-duty-5000/marine---boat-30733/deep-cycle---marine-batteries-17354/409e0a64fe51/super-start-fleet-heavy-duty-group-size-8d-battery/agm8d/4742645

As a side note, I purchased 600 ah worth of  lithium (lifepo4) batteries last year. Murphey's law, two weeks prior to lithiums arriving, my house batteries failed. The lithiums are charged to 50% and sit in their original  boxes, uninstalled. I will not install them until I see a need.  So far, the 8Ds are doing just fine for my requirements, everyone's needs are different.  I'll decide in 2021.
I think the big variable in this equation is how low you are willing to cycle your AGM's.  Yes, at 50% there's a small advantage to 4 lithiums.  I would typically try to stay above 75% SOC, which completely changes the math.  Lithium gets more attractive as your minimum wet cell battery SOC increases, with 50% being the absolute lower limit.

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #23 –
Quote from: John44 –
Dale,we have 2 Lithium pro batteries and a ms2812 with the BMK and are using the temp sensor, can you explain more why we
should not use it?
As I understand it, LiFePo4 does not require temperature compensated charging.  They are better off without it, assuming you stay within the high/low temperature limits.

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #24 –
Li-ion batteries do not necessarily produce all their rates power at the first moment of a draw.

In using them on my motorcycles I find in cooler weather where the motors oil is stiffer that I need to turn on the headlight for a minute or so to "warm up" the battery. 

Different chemistry. 

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #25 –
Best source for info on lithium lifepo4 batteries is from the manufacturers, as East Penn, and Lifeline for AGM and Gel, Aims, Battle Born, Lithium Pros, Trjan Trilliums, Renogy, Lion Energy for lifepo4.

Note sub categories on the left margin on the following example of Battle Born FAQ site for information on categories General, Batteries, Charging/Discharging, and BMS.

Battle Born
FAQ - Battle Born Batteries

Lion Energy FAQ
Lion Safari UT 1300 - Lion Energy

Lithium Pros
RE3110 12.8V 110Ah Lithium Ion Battery - Lithium Pros

Trojan Trilliums
Trillium | Trojan Battery Company

This guy did a great, short, simple, explanation of his experience going from AGM to Lithium.  Unusually, he even took out his generator in a class C replacing it with 4 Battle Borns and a dc to dc charger.

https://youtu.be/MDdN3HiBf3w

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #26 –
And you could add to that list Lion Energy.  We have 8 of them and are performing well.    With the 4000 series Hybrid inverter it's also not recommended ( read not needed ) to connect the battery temp sensor.

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #27 –
Just to be clear here, I don't use my Battleborns as the starting battery.  It's a boost mode in parallel with the 3 agm start batteries.  The amperage draw from each of the 6 battleborns in boost is perhaps 20 amps tops.  There is a huge difference in usage as a dedicated start battery and a boost battery.  I will attest that when using the lithiums as a boost, the Cummins ISM fires in perhaps 1 second cold, vs. the usual 5 seconds without boost.  I shall continue routinely using boost to reduce wear and tear on starter and start components, but anyone should call Battleborn if you question this arrangement.


Quote from: bdale –
Battleborn says that their batteries should NOT be used as starting batteries.  I think starting the generator and occasional use for boosting, if needed, is ok but I'd confirm that regular use for starting your coach engine is ok with them.
 

Re: Lithium battery questions

Reply #28 –
We have three high quality lion energy  100 watt portable solar panels.  Sealed in glass.  Folding. Heavy duty frames. Adjustable legs.  Locks to hold it together folded. Carrying handle.  Anderson connectors.  Bosch cells. 

Can be daisy chained. Up to 4.  20 amps at 22 volts out.  Bought more of their braided HD connecting cables with Anderson connector ends.

Versus more panels on the coach.  Dual use.  Home and/or rv.

We put the money into dual use. 

I am pretty sure lion energy batteries are high quality.  The panels definitely are....